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Lessons Learned!: THOROUGH Epinion on MY EXPERIENCES with dealerships, greenlight.com and carsdirect.comSep 21 '00 (Updated Dec 30 '00) Write an essay on this topic.Ok..ready for a great epinion loaded with lots of information on my experiences in the past month on researching off the web and then leasing a 2000 Toyota 4Runner a dealership? Before this month, I was totally ignorant. Now I'm experienced and I want to share this with novices. I recommend printing this epinion out, highlighting it and using it to do research and ultimately purchase or lease a new car. Before you read this epinion, you should understand a high level summarized order to what I have gone through over this past month. As a summary of my experiences within the past 2 weeks, I have done the following: 1) Research and get info and prices from the web. 2) Filled out form on Autobytel. Autobytel would find dealership with the Toyota I was looking for. A specific dealership then called me a day later to set up an appointment. 3) Went to a dealership, negotiated a deal. Got the car- for a week. 4) Returned the car and canceled the deal from the dealership because they didn't deliver on what was negotiated. 5) Now that I returned the car, I wanted to get the car again, but this time I would be getting it and understanding what I could get. I looked into: -Carsdirect.com to purchase vehicle. Very pleasurable experience. Got a better deal. Carsdirect is a service that researches the car you are looking for for you. The price is supposed to be good and non-negotiable. You have to put $50 down as a deposit on your credit card. This is refundable. -Went to another Toyota dealer. I wanted to see what else was out there. Using the knowledge I got from this whole nightmare experience, I went to a dealer and negotiated. -Greenlight.com -Greenlight is another service like carsdirect.com that researches the car you are looking for for you-the price is supposed to be good and non-negotiable. The negative to this site is that you have to lay down $200 (which is refundable). Now onto the details of each of these steps- -------------------------------------------- BEFORE THE DEALERSHIP: RESEARCH ON WEB -------------------------------------------- Before I was even ready to buy a car, I did PLENTY of research on the web about buying cars. There's a lot of information from the website http://www.carbuyingtips.com. The site is divided into the following chapters: 1) Car Leasing Intro 2) Leasing Glossary 3) ** Lease Examples (this is a great chapter which explains all the possible fees that you may see at a dealership. Be educated about these fees and make sure you understand where the salesperson is charging you.) http://www.carbuyingtips.com/car3.htm 4) Websites 5) Leasing Scams 6) Lease Dilemmas 7) ALG Residual Values In addition, I went to http://www.askme.com to ask experts in the "Auto" category about what sites they can recommend about buying cars. This is a great site that is just as good as epinions.com. You can ask experts about any topic and they email you back THROUGH THE SITE (and you can do it anonymously). In addition, in my car research, I went to the following websites: Driveoff.com Greenlight.com Carpoint.com Many people just buy cars off of these websites without going to a dealership. My thinking was that by going to these sites, I wanted to see and understand my options so that I could walk into a dealership and negotiate a better price than the web. Each of the above sites provided me with the various prices of the vehicles and the cost if I were to choose different options. Most importantly, these sites provided me with a lease estimate. What I would find out later is that these websites did indeed offer better deals than going into a dealership. HOWEVER, for a novice, I still think that my experience negotiating a car with a dealership was an invaluable experience. I finally went to Autobytel and filled out a form which was then forwarded to a local dealership who carried the vehicle.. Within a day, the North Hollywood Toyota dealership called me to set up an appointment. ----------------------------------------------------------- WENT TO DEALERSHIP WITH RESEARCH -MADE PURCHASE ----------------------------------------------------------- By obtaining the prices on the websites listed above, I walked though the sea of salespeople attacking me on my way into the Toyota of North Hollywood dealership with print outs from all of my researched auto sites. As I would negotiate for the car, I would refer to these printouts. The salesperson I was dealing with said that the fender flares were around $700. I looked on my carsdirect printout and located the fender flare options ..and sure enough they were in the $500 range. I told the salesperson that on carsdirect, the fender flares are listed for ~$500. He said "oh" and I basically busted him. I felt so good that I came in there prepared. Slimeballs. I walked into the dealership wanting to spend $400. By the end of the day, I got the car and wound up spending around $479/month for my 48-month (4 year) lease. How did I spend this much? Let me explain how it came to this: 1) Originally the salesperson said it would be $499-after lots of back and forth between his manager and us. By the way, I went down there with my good friend and his girlfriend. Going down there with another person is definitely advisable. After about 20 minutes, we got down to $465/month (mind you, my credit rating was very good).. Supposedly, "there was nothing left for me to negotiate". Let me also say, that I put down $2000 in addition to the monthly lease. I would soon realize (after I would go to carsdirect), that this $2000 I put down was not necessary. They got a good deal from me, no matter what they said. 2) The salesperson kept on saying that I'm "really tough" because we were being persistent about negotiating down. Every time he said that I cringed. I felt like this was a statement that the salespeople at this dealership were trained to say to make the customer feel like they really did a good job. 3) After I negotiated the deal, for $465 (and $2000 down), the deal was I was supposed to get: 1) Fender Flares as were shown to me on the SR5 Highlander and Limited editions. (the fender flares are the thick metal encasements on the exterior of the car around the wheels) 2) Extended Warranty (the warranty is normally for 3 years..since I got a 5 year/60,000 mile warranty-they don't have a 4 year one) So I shook the salesperson's hand now closing the deal. I now was spending $465/month and then I was about to learn yet another lesson. When I was filling out the paper work, the finance manager now wanted to know if I wanted lojack or gap insurance. As I found out from experts on http://www.askme.com, gap insurance is something one would want. If your car gets stolen or damaged, your insurance company may just pay for a portion of the vehicle. However, you still owe the dealership for the remaining money the car is worth. So the gap insurance is the money that covers the difference between what your auto insurance pays out and what you owe the dealership. I asked a lot of people about this and it seems like this really is a smart idea. So for an additional $14/month, I opted for this insurance. (I chose not to get the lojack because even if the police did find the vehicle, it may be damaged and things may be missing and I probably wouldn't want the vehicle back). I learned later that certain dealerships finance leases through outside institutions (i.e. Bank One) which offers gap insurance within the lease deal. So- now my deal was a total of $479/month with $2000 down. I was slowly but surely spending more and more money. So on Saturday, 5 days after the dealership installed the promised fender flares, I picked up my 2000 Toyota 4Runner. My friend drives me to the dealership to pick up my new car. We pull into the lot. The salesperson who was dealing with me a week earlier points to my vehicle. It took me all of 5 seconds to realize that the fender flares that they put on my new vehicle were not the same fender flares that were showed to me the previous week. I expressed this to the sales manager at the North Hollywood Toyota Dealership. He brought me to Nathan, his manager. His manager assured me that if I come back on Monday they'll switch "it" for what I wanted. I don't remember exactly what he said, but I know that he was using a lot of what I call "ambiguous pronouns". Envisioning problems, I asked him to elaborate what he was talking about. For the time being, I walked away upset that the vehicle wasn't ready, but I walked away with dubious hope that it was going to get fixed. But something in the back of my mind said that things were still not going to be good. I came back on Monday and Nathan wasn't there. I expressed my concern to the salesperson who sold me the vehicle and was aware with my unhappiness over the fender flares. Two days later, I got a call back from a customer service rep at the North Hollywood Dealership saying that she spoke with Nathan and they can't put on the flares they showed me because THOSE flares would cost them a couple of thousand dollars. I was enraged! I asked to be transferred to Nathan and I told him that when I spoke to him on Saturday he assured me that he wanted to make me happy. I also told him that I KNEW that if I walked away, they would pull this. I told him that I was willing to come into the dealership to discuss this. He said that there's nothing to discuss. I said that we made a deal and that I was promised something and that if I left the lot 5 days earlier and found another dealership who offered me the car for cheaper, I couldn't cancel the deal. It wouldn't be in good faith. Now upset, I continued to express how angry I was and HE HUNG UP ON ME!! Now, I was upset! During our discussion he had said that I could bring the car back in and cancel the deal. Angry and disappointed, I called the customer rep back and told her that I would indeed be returning the vehicle and canceling the deal -since I have had a bad feeling about this dealership since the beginning. This is the inspiration for this epinion and a call to Corporate Toyota to register a complaint. I was also tempted to call the Better Business Bureau, but I returned the vehicle with no problems..and I just wanted to get a new car and be done with it. ------------------------------------------------------------- RETURNED VEHICLE TO DEALERSHIP -TIME TO LOOK FOR CAR AGAIN ------------------------------------------------------------- After my phone conversation with Toyota North Hollywood, I returned the vehicle the next day and got my money back. Now, it was time to try to find the same car but through other means. Now prepared with knowledge about this specific car, its options, how much to expect to pay, and how deals are made, I was prepared to explore the following 3 options: 1) carsdirect.com - I returned to this site thinking maybe I should actually follow through and see what kind of vehicle and deal they find for me. 2) greenlight.com -I returned to this amazon.com acquired company to see if they could find a good deal for me as well. 3) Going back to another Toyota dealership-My friend recommended this one. I figured I would have nothing to lose by going into another dealership -now more knowledgeable. Before I explain my experience with all of these options, the one lesson I learned was that you have to be careful about letting these dealerships run your credit reports (in the following cases, I had carsdirect and greenlight run my rating). I found out that everytime anyone runs a credit report on you, you lose points on your credit rating. Lower points makes it harder to get a good deal on a lease. I called Transunion to find out more about a damaged credit rating. They told me the damage stays on your credit rating for 2 years. Ok-so there's hope.. I will now explain my experience with all of these: -------------------------------------------- 1) carsdirect.com (1-800-431-2500) -------------------------------------------- This was a terrific experience! I got on the phone with a thorough, honest and hard working girl named Kristine Peterson and within a couple of hours she called me back saying that she got the Highlander package that I was looking for. Through carsdirect I was going to get the following for $471.87/month ($453 ! /month + $18/month extended warranty) + $940 driveoff (which consists of 1st month's rent + acquisition fee + taxes) + $0 down. -Toyota 4Runner HighLander edition (with Fender Flares that I wanted) -Moonroof -Discount Convenience package -Upgrade Value Package #2 -Sports Package -6 years warranty/60,000 miles warranty (it was the next step up from the 3 year base warranty) -12,000 miles/year Plus Christine mentioned to me that after my 4 year deal was up I could return the unused portion of my extended warranty and get money back (which may be around $200). This was great news. If I were to get this, I could pick the car up at the dealership OR they could drive it to me. So far, everything about working with carsdirect has been a complete pleasure compared to the hours and hours I have wasted dealing with the North Hollywood dealership. I do understand however why people are hesitant to use this service. Nobody wants to be taken advantage of. It was only after I experienced going to a dealership was I prepared to assess the price that carsdirect gave me. ------------------------------------------ 2) greenlight.com 1-800-333-5497 ------------------------------------------ I returned to this site and put in my application. The next day, I received a call from a representative there. I told him exactly what I was looking for. I didn't hear back from him until later in the day-and that was because I put in a call to followup with him. I had let him know that I was going to go to a dealership later that night to see if I could get a car. Sure enough he called me around 6:30 PM that night saying that he found a black Toyota SR5 4Runner -. but it wasn't the Millennium Silver color I was looking for. Already, I was finding that greenlight.com wasn't as hardworking as carsdirect. -------------------------------------------------------- 3) Sheraton Toyota Dealership -Santa Monica -------------------------------------------------------- Based on a recommendation, I went into this dealership and was up front with a personable salesman named Ruven as to what I wanted. My instincts told me that he was going to be more pleasurable to work with than any other salesman I have encountered. I mentioned to this salesman that I was unhappy with Toyota of North Hollywood. He had told me that they had a bad reputation. Anyway, I told this salesman I was looking to get all of the above I mentioned in the carsdirect section for $450. I figured I would stick to this price and see what he could offer me. I also went in there with the attitude that I would not haggle and walk out if not offered the price and hopefully have them follow after me. So as I expected, they couldn't do that price. The price they came back after 1 or 2 "back and forths" to the manager was $464 -a very similar deal I was finding in many dealerships. The nice thing the salesman did for me was to NOT run up my credit rating until we would negotiate on a price (which we never did). Anyway, getting back to the $464/month, I said I'm looking for lower and I thanked him and WALKED OUT. About 30 steps down the block, I heard my name being called out. As I was told by a friend, sometimes they'll call you back because they don't want to lose your business. That's exactly what they were doing. Laughing to myself, I walked back towards the salesman standing now with the manager of the dealership. The manager asked me if I would come up in my price. I said I would go to $450. They said they couldn't do it. I REALLY didn't want to haggle anymore-so once again, I said thank you and walked away. This time they didn't stop me. ----------------------------------------------- 3 WEEKS, 4 DEALERSHIPS LATER, I HAVE A CAR!!! ----------------------------------------------- Carsdirect had the best deal for me and the service couldn't have been better!-so I went with them. Christine from carsdirect faxed me some sheets to sign and scheduled for me to pick up the car on Saturday. I could have arranged for carsdirect to have the Toyota dealership deliver the car to my home BUT I didn't want the car to be driven off of the Toyota lot before I looked at it; if there was a problem or the car wasn't the car I wanted, then I wouldn't take it off their lot. Instead, I would contact carsdirect to either get me the right car or have Toyota fix the car. I went down to the lot and picked up the car. FINALLY, I am driving the vehicle I want at the best price I know I could have gotten it for. If anyone of you are reading this and got a better deal-please. DON'T LET ME KNOW ABOUT IT! (just kidding) You'll get me upset! ---------------------------------------- Summarized Lessons Learned: ---------------------------------------- 1) Do your research on the web. Be firm with a number when you go into a dealership and WALK OUT if you don't get it. These salespeople want to make the sale and realize that there are other dealerships AND the internet for customers like us to go to. 2) Be knowledgeable about that gap insurance. Knowing about this may be helpful in negotiating your deal. Be mindful, that certain dealerships 3) The one thing to keep in mind, even after you negotiate the deal, is that you have to fill out a customer service form that corporate headquarters wants to know about. The salesperson and the finance manager kept on saying to make sure and give them a good recommendation. . Yeah right- This is the one thing you may hold against your salesperson to ensure you get everything you've negotiated for. 4) Have everything that you agree upon in writing. Question everything. 5) Novices should get the experience of negotiating a car with a dealership (be aware of the prices that you get off of carsdirect or greenlight and use that to leverage your deal). In my situation, I was fortunate enough (or unfortunate -depends on how you look at it) to have negotiated a deal with a dealership and then have it nullified because the dealership didn't deliver on something promised. I was then able to take this knowledge of what I could get and go elsewhere. 6) Don't have too many car dealerships make credit report inquiries. This will lower your credit rating and make it more difficult to get a good deal when applying for a lease. See if you can negotiate a price first and then have them do the credit rating. As in my case with the Sheraton Toyota Dealership, we could never come to terms on a price, so if they had run my credit rating, it would have damaged my score -all for nothing! 7) Give carsdirect a shot. They were very helpful for me! 8) If you live in Los Angeles, don't go to Toyota North Hollywood car dealership! This epinion took a long time to organize and document. I would appreciate it if you took the time to rate it! Thank you and good luck!  |
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