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Member Advice Summary
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The "Gamer Stereotype"
by vicwang | Sep 05 '00
In my opinion "gamers" have been rather unfairly stereotyped, especially here at Epinions. If you've read any of the "buying guides" at this site, you probably know the stereotype I'm referring to. The "gamer" is a computer...Return to opinion
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vicwang thanks please respond or everybody to this please (Reply to this comment)
by supercomputer
Hi everyone this wang guy has some great advice but im in the moral delema i bought a $100 case
2 a: drives $14.35 each. A cd burner/ rw 52x24x52
for $60.00, dvd rom for $69.99 and a dvd burner for $179.99 and a $169.99 motherboard, AMD 6400
cpu for $319.99 (top of the line). $399.99 armagetton 9700 grapics card a 250gb hd for $212.99 a 52X cd player for $29.00 sound card for around $129.00 firewire card for $49.00 and last but not least 1.1gzs of ram $250.00 is this worth the supergaming computer if it is i will send pics to everyone who responds to this via email @ billionare04@yahoo.com please note i want imput also can i run svideo to my tv will it be good for games thanks toby
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Aug 20 '04
2:11 pm PDT
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Excellent! (Reply to this comment)
by KnightRT
Vic, you know that if you continue to write superb articles like this one, you'll spoil it for the rest of us, right? It's going to be tough to match points for positioning when you've the support of the entire Epinions community. :~)
Bravo,
David I
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Jul 19 '01
2:24 pm PDT
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We essentially share the same views. (Reply to this comment)
by Wolf_Knight
I didn't think it was wise to splurge on the "latest and greatest" components, either. Like you, I took advantage of buying through wholesalers to eliminate the middleman and waiting 4-6 months until the prices of all the stuff I wanted dropped to sane levels. ;-)
I gave your well-written and detailed review the "HR" it deserves.
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Nov 13 '00
12:25 am PST
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grrrrr envious (Reply to this comment)
by dragon1,  in Computer Hardware
This would worn this old man out. Nice review and what I like detail.
Wish I could afford something like this.
Michael L Hereid Sr
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Oct 11 '00
10:11 pm PDT
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CDRW Problem (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
Update regarding the possible problem where CD-RW discs can't be read by CD-ROM's: I got this via email from my friend micmackman
"Our Dell uses Direct CD to write and rewrite data to a CD-R. Its software format cannot be used reliably, or at all, on standard CD-ROM's that do not use or support Direct CD software. Direct CD CAN, once you are finished all the writing you want to do to a CD-R, alter the TOC (or something on the
disc) so that it CAN be read by any CD-ROM drive."
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Oct 10 '00
9:24 pm PDT
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Re: A question. (Or two...) (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
Sure, I'll be happy to answer your questions.
"I bought a AMD K6 III with a FIC 2013 motherboard... Is it possible to 'overclock' this CPU/motherboard combo?"
It is definitely possible to overclock any of the K6 series of chips, since AMD didn't start "multiplier locking" their chips until the Duron and Athlon came out (and even those locks can be easily defeated). With the K6-III, it should be as easy as changing jumpers to select your bus speed and multiplier. Aceshardware.com wrote a good K6-III overclocking guide a while back (check under their How To guides).
Unfortunately, the K6 series generally do not overclock well. With the two K6-2's I've owned, I've never been able to overclock more than 10 mhz past their rated speed (as opposed to my Duron 650, which I've easily overclocked by 250 mhz!)
As for the AGP video card, K6 motherboards (specifically, the motherboard chipsets) have generally had problems with AGP. I've heard many horror stories from TNT 2 users due to those AGP problems. For that reason, the Voodoo 3 is often regarded as the card to get for K6 owners since Voodoo 3's do not actually use AGP features.
"I intend to design and build a system strictly for my graphics work - scanning, digital camera software, graphics software, etc. I've already decided to go with AMD, but I don't know what is the 'best' motherboard for AMD chips over 750 mHz.
That's an easy one: the Asus A7V (the one I bought) or the Abit KT7. Both are regarded as the top Socket-A boards available, and they are also from two of the top names in the motherboards business. Both also have the multiplier dip-switches, so you can overclock if you want to. They will also support Durons and Athlons all they way to 1250 mhz.
"I also don't know what brand of video card would work well for this type of work, except that I want it to go up to as near as possible to the max resolution now possible."
Just about any video card will do the job, but if you want the absolute best image quality the Maxtor G400 is often regarded as the best mainstream card available, followed by the ATI Rage 128.
"I will most likely choose the hard drives for max capacity rather than speed, even though one of the things I intend to do (creating animation) could use that speed (my other work creates large, storage intensive images)"
For more info on this, you may want to check out my article on buying a hard drive, located at http://vicwang.epinions.com/cmd-review-5DB4-188AC630-39D8E1ED-prod3
"I also need a decent cdr/cdrw drive"
If you want a very high quality drive, Plextor makes the best CD-RW's available. I've heard of many people who swear by them. (by, not at :) Of course, it's up to you if you want to pay price premium, since just about any name brand CD-RW will do the job for casual use.
"I have heard that there have been some problems with some cdrw drives writing cd's that cannot be read on standard drives"
I think this is mainly an issue with the CD-ROM that's reading the disk (some older ones won't read CD-RW's and/or CD-R's at all), not the CD-RW drive.
"I also need a good straight cdrom drive, the fastest I can get"
By far the fastest CD-ROM's are the Kenwood 72 TrueX drives. They use multiple lasers simulataneously, and have received excellent reviews. Pricewatch.com has them listed for as low as $81.
Good luck!
-vicwang
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Oct 10 '00
12:28 pm PDT
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P. S. (Reply to this comment)
by maillion
After posting my first comment, I realised that I had left out the most important part!
Great review! I didn't realise that it was long until I read some of the others' comments, it was that interesting. I'm going to bookmark it, at least temporarily, so I can check out some of the components you mentioned that I am unfamiliar with.
Maillion
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Oct 10 '00
10:19 am PDT
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A question. (Or two...) (Reply to this comment)
by maillion
I am in the process of building a system at the moment. Unfortunately, cash flow considerations are dictating what I can buy, and that means something somewhere between the best and the cheapest. I bought a AMD K6 III with a FIC 2013 motherboard (they came together), and I have earmarked the remainder of my money for memory and hard drives. I need a decent AGP video card, but won't have more than 60 - 70 dollars to spend for it, so I will probably spend an hour or two comparing cards in the store until I find a compromise.
First question: Is it possible to 'overclock' this CPU/motherboard combo?
Second question: I intend to design and build a system strictly for my graphics work - scanning, digital camera software, graphics software, etc. I already have the software in mind, but I could use a bit of help on the hardware. I've already decided to go with AMD, but I don't know what is the 'best' motherboard for AMD chips over 750 mHz. I also don't know what brand of video card would work well for this type of work, except that I want it to go up to as near as possible to the max resolution now possible. I will most likely choose the hard drives for max capacity rather than speed, even though one of the things I intend to do (creating animation) could use that speed (my other work creates large, storage intensive images). I also need a decent cdr/cdrw drive, and since this will be used only to store the finished images, it need not be all that fast (but I would like it to be so). I have heard that there have been some problems with some cdrw drives writing cd's that cannot be read on standard drives. I don't need this problem, if it still exists. I also need a good straight cdrom drive, the fastest I can get. Do you have any suggestions?
If you don't have time for this, I understand, but if you do, you can either email me or post a reply here. (I will check back to this review from time to time, if I get no email.)
Thanks in advance,
Maillion
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Oct 10 '00
10:03 am PDT
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Re: oh yeah, forgot to mention (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
"Just a note, but your prices don't apply to everyone. Not everyone has a spare computer to start swapping parts with."
Hey Mustangman. You might want to check the article again. That's why I listed the price of ALL components, including the ones I "migrated", so that you can get an idea of what everything would cost new. So basically that $875 figure is an approximation of what it WOULD cost to build this system from scratch (slightly less actually, since some of the parts I migrated are cheaper today than when I first bought them), even though I only paid $625 for new parts.
Later,
-vicwang
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Sep 25 '00
3:35 pm PDT
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Re: nice article (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
"I still felt yours was a tad long especially since the entire beginning really didn't have much to do with a gamer's PC. It was rather interesting facts, but I want to see the actual components and how to decide on what's right."
Hey Mustangman. I was a bit concerned about it being rather long for most readers (I always appreciate HR's, although of course I must wonder whether ALL 41 of the people who HR'ed this article actually read it to the end!) but I'll have to disagree that the beginning "didn't have much to do with a gamer's PC".
The point I was trying to make, with the introduction and the article overall, is that it's OKAY to buy "mid-range" components even for a "gamer's PC", and that the same basic buying principles used for "normal" PC's can also be applied to gamer's PC's. Those principles shouldn't just be thrown in the trash because you're going to be playing games on it.
I realize, for the minority of gamers who DO fit the "gamer sterotype", there's a certain elitist mentality where they just NEED the hottest parts for the "status" and bragging rights. So I think there's pressure from both gamers and non-gamers that, if you're buying a gamer's PC, you should get ultra-high end parts, or else you're doing something wrong. And that simply isn't true.
"Strangely enough, both of us being oriental and all, your computer is very similar to mine."
Yeah, those are pretty similar systems! I'm especially glad I went with the Desktar 75GXP... Tomshardware.com just did an article on it, and at least with the synthetic benchmarks it was MUCH faster than any other IDE drive on the market, even though it's just a little more expensive.
"I would not survive on a Voodoo 3 because the games I play now even sometimes run a little choppy at demanding times during a game, like a crowded gun fight or whatever. Games like Draken and Deus Ex won't run on a Voodoo 3, not very good at least. Maybe if you play more of the first person games you'll know"
Actually, a majority of games I play are FPSes, especially Deus Ex which happens to be my latest obsession (and if the rest of the game is as good as it's been so far, might replace System Shock 2 as the best game I've ever played). I have found the performance to be rather choppy when there's very complex environments or 5+ enemies on screen, but I suspect it's a CPU issue more than the graphics card. To test it out I tried turning down all the graphics options to the minimum, and those same environments are still just as choppy, implying that those areas are just incredibly CPU intensive.
Otherwise performance is really smooth even at 1024x768 with my V3 2000, although it's main problem is the lack of 32-bit color which makes certain textures pretty darn ugly. Incidentally, since it's based on the Unreal engine I've heard that performance with NON-3dfx cards is REALLY poor in Direct3D mode (although they've released a patch that helps that problem).
Thanks for the comments,
-vicwang
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Sep 25 '00
3:31 pm PDT
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Re: Great Review! (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
Thanks Duke. Yeah, now is definitely a good time to get that Duron, since rumor has it that all Durons will be completely multiplier locked at some point (it was supposed to happen already, but AFAIK I have yet to hear of a confirmed "sighting"). Once that happens, multiplier overclocking will be next to impossible.
By the way, I'll be updating this article soon since my system is up and running, but thought I'd mention that my Duron 650 is now running perfectly stable at 800 mhz with a 1.72 volt core (1.6 is default, 1.85 maximum). I'm bumping it up every few days just to be on the safe side, but at this rate it looks like it'll reach 900-1000 with no problem.
And I definitely agree with your assesment of video cards. Although I have heard that FSAA at 1024x768 is still better than 1280x1024 (and they have roughly the same performance at FSAA x2), which means it can still be useful even if you CAN handle ultra-high resolutions.
Later,
-vicwang
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Sep 25 '00
3:08 pm PDT
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Re: DUDE!!! WOW!!! (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
Thanks for the compliments, Tipu! Always great to receive praise from as respected an Epinions member as yourself. Especially considering the fact that these buying guides don't make jack in terms of eroyalties, it's great to hear from people who found it useful.
"Have you tried outpost.com for computer related purchases ever - they're my fav. Free shipping is da bomb - specially free 1-day air shipping!"
Yeah, I've bought lots of stuff from Outpost.com, although never computer stuff (with the exception of 20 CD-R's I bought from them, which were free after rebate!). Of course, besides the free next day shipping the best thing about Outpost is that they accept Flooz dollars. Since Flooz often has special offers for first time users(ex. get $25 free Flooz dollars when you send someone $50), it's like getting an automatic 33% discount on anything. Plus they're a darned good site all around, hence their #1 Bizrate ranking.
Thanks again,
-vicwang
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Sep 25 '00
2:57 pm PDT
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oh yeah, forgot to mention (Reply to this comment)
by mustangman5
Just a note, but your prices don't apply to everyone. Not everyone has a spare computer to start swapping parts with, if you're going to give a total price on any system you're describing as your version of a gamer's computer, you have to add the cost of everything as if someone was buying all the parts separately. I really doubt everyone that reads your atricle has a spare computer with a DVD-ROM and all that to work with.
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Sep 24 '00
8:33 pm PDT
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I am a hard core gamer (Reply to this comment)
by ehetzler
It is nice to read something positive about gamers for a change.
When I buy a computer I tend to buy high end machines which exceed what I need at the moment of purchase. I do this because I want to get the maximum useful life out of anything I buy not because I play games. I also load up a machine with high end graphics and sound because I like music and graphics. Playing games is just one of many things I do with my computer.
My experience has been that being a gamer means good preventive maintenance more than a slavish devotion to hardware.
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Sep 24 '00
3:59 am PDT
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nice article (Reply to this comment)
by mustangman5
Hey, sorry for being the person to rate your review the lowest, but I really wished there was a rating in between highly recommended and recommended, because recommended sounds so much worse than highly recommended. Anyway, with my painfully long reviews in mind, I still felt yours was a tad long especially since the entire beginning really didn't have much to do with a gamer's PC. It was rather interesting facts, but I want to see the actual components and how to decide on what's right. Strangely enough, both of us being oriental and all, your computer is very similar to mine. My setup is more of the more expensive, stereotypical setup for a gamers PC, but the difference is that I do know it is possible to build a gamers' PC without the expensive components I chose, I simply had the money to spend.
The main things that were the same with our computers is that we both went AMD, except mine is AMD Athlon (I'm never comfortable with playing with something that I've spent a lot of money on, such as overclocking, it's almost a phoebia with me), and my motherboard is the Asus K7V, which is a close relative to your A7V and the K7M. I must say good choice, and those reviews you read are right, that line of Asus motherboards are remarkable, mine booted up on the first try, so I'm happy.
I also have an IBM Deskstar harddrive, except mine's only 20GB but is also 7200rpm.
Finally, the case, I have, I think, the exact same case as you, the Enlight midtower case, 300W power supply, I paid about the same as you, so I'm guessing it's the same one.
I then went with a GeForce256 card simply because I heard great reviews about the Asus V6600 Deluxe, so I had to try it.
I do disagree on a couple of points, I would not survive on a Voodoo 3 because the games I play now even sometimes run a little choppy at demanding times during a game, like a crowded gun fight or whatever. Games like Draken and Deus Ex won't run on a Voodoo 3, not very good at least. Maybe if you play more of the first person games you'll know, since they are much more demanding than the types of games you're probably used to, I'm a master at all Rainbow Six games, so I'm used to those types. It's a shame since I hate all the current popular shooters, the Rainbow Six series are the only games out there that can grab my interest. Oh well, keep up the good writing, and give the sideways winking man a rest, I see girls doing that a lot, but not you.
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Sep 22 '00
9:01 pm PDT
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Re: v3 1k (Reply to this comment)
by vicwang
What's up Turin! Thanks for the comments. As for the V3 1K, it's actually a rather bizarre product because, as you mentioned, 3dfx also released the V2 1K (the old Voodoo 2). They also released the 3dfx Velocity, which was a V3 with only 8 megs of RAM and a texture unit disabled. But this is definitely a fully-fledged Voodoo 3, with 125 mhz SGRAM (instead of SDRAM). To make it even more interesting, I heard a rumor that the SGRAM on these suckers is actually FASTER than the V3 2k's... Too bad the heatsink on it sucks, or else I'd be able to overclock it and find out.
As for Durons being multiplier locked, I assume you mean *completely* locked (with the multiplier pins completely removed). I've heard rumors about that for a while, and I know there were "photographs" of Durons with the pins removed, but those photographs actually turned out to be fakes. To my knowledge, AMD hasn't actually removed those pins yet, so ALL Durons and Athlons can still be unlocked with the "pencil method". Of course, if you know otherwise, please let me know!
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Sep 19 '00
11:41 pm PDT
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v3 1k (Reply to this comment)
by Turin
aren't the 1000s just the old voodoo2's repackaged, i do remember reading 3dfxs roadmap when they switched their logo and released the 2k that they were gonna still ship v2's as 1k's. I think so, I also believe i saw one at ebx of all places for only $30. The v3 2k was $90 but with a $30 off coupon. If the v3 1k's are the v2's ( i believe i saw the sli connector on it, then they are an awesome deal for $30. And if it's $30 at a software store in a mall, you can definitely find it cheaper. The great thing about it is that you can go for a cheap sli setup for around $60 from a retail store if you have two pci slots. I had sli two years ago, and while the v3 2k boasts similar or better fps and image quality, it also chokes on some games that require more textures or larger textures where sli can handle them (two v2's with 12 megs of ram =24 megs or ram). V3 2k comes in a 16meg flavor only, but it only takes up one slot. Either solution will let you run in 1024x768, though in high detail you may have to drop down to 800x600 since a duron 600 without overclocking would probably hit the cards' limits. Either way if you are looking for a cheap way to upgrade your system to 3d and still have good performance, you can't beat them for $60 or less.
sorry this is getting so long, you might also want to let people know that the newer durons are now multiplier locked, so they should be carefull before buying them.
another great review
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Sep 18 '00
3:33 pm PDT
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Great Review! (Reply to this comment)
by duke_nuker
Really, really helpful info. I’m planning to purchase a second PC and upgrade the existing one soon and although I had thought it through already, I think I’ll do it again now (especially the Duron part).
I think the video cards issue is somehow paradoxical. As you said, TNT2 cards can’t really handle 32 bit resolutions due to lack of bandwidth and GeForce 1 cards won’t make a real difference speaking about FSAA. So the remaining solution is the GeForce 2 (or the soon to be released Ultra version), being the only card capable of actually doing FSAA properly. However, if you have one of these cards, you will end up cracking up the resolutions to 1280 by 1024 (provided you have the adequate monitor) or more thus rendering FSAA useless. However, it’s still a good inversion if you have a 14 or 15 inches monitor, or a 17 inch monitor that can’t go higher than 1,024x768, like in your particular case.
Again, really helpful advice, especially the Buy.com thing. I’ll have to get a couple more girlfriends in order to make it actually work though ;-)
Duke
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Sep 07 '00
2:16 pm PDT
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DUDE!!! WOW!!! (Reply to this comment)
by tipu
Whoa! Hope you got your gf a nice present with all the mo' you saved!
Wow wow wow!
What a great asset to EP you are.
Like all people, gamers also come in all types. Like all stereotypes, the gamer one, too, is flawed - as you've aptly pointed out.
Yes, I was surprised to learn of your video card choice. Makes me feel a bit better about my V3 2000 (it's a PCI - silly Compaq computer!).
Heh heh - I've done that deal from buy.com - using my roommate for a second order... they're pretty good. Have you tried outpost.com for computer related purchases ever - they're my fav. Free shipping is da bomb - specially free 1-day air shipping! I know, I could wait longer, but I wanna play with my toys NOW!
Hadn't heard of the $30 off $150 deal though - THANKS for pointing that out.
Wonder how long it'll last.
I got a neat break on my monitor - it's refurbished, but works fine. Got it off an auction site for $140 w/ S&H - 'tis a Philips 17" monitor with .25 DP. Not sure about the RR - it's on 1024x768 & I checked - seems to say 87 Hz? Whatever... I enjoy it...
... just as I enjoyed lingering over your epinion, mixed with envy for the cashola you saved and the great advice you've given.
I'll be back to read the earlier ones in this series sometime - can't have all the good stuff all at once - I gotta ride my bike! (~;
If you weren't an advisor, I'd be shocked.
Wonderful. Thanks Vic! ...t-þoo
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Sep 07 '00
12:15 pm PDT
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I'd print this out but... (Reply to this comment)
by RichBoston
...I'd need a new print cartridge! :-)
Very thorough and informative!
Rich
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Sep 07 '00
4:33 am PDT
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