Top Notch Minivan
Written: Sep 01 '03 (Updated Jan 16 '04)
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Pros: Style, Space, Power, Comfort and Value
Cons: Minor interior issues.
The Bottom Line: This is the best minivan on the market. It has the best of all other models combined into one great vehicle.
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| bradtaura's Full Review: 2004 Toyota Sienna 2WD |
This review was updated on 1/16/04 with additional information on maintenance and performance.
Our 2004 Sienna purchase story
We picked up our new 2004 Sienna on 8/12/03. We ordered it on 5/29/03 from our local Toyota dealer. We had a frustrating experience with this particular dealer due to communication problems. If you live in the Indianapolis area, we would urge you NOT to buy at Beck Toyota. Instead of running their business on service and professionalism, they operate on deception, disrespect and avoidance. To further complicate matters, we ordered an XLE with cloth interior and Arctic Frost Pearl paint. Apparently, XLE with cloth are only about 5% of Toyotas production, and this model in the arctic frost pearl is even rarer.
We liked several of the option packages, such as the safety package with the side curtain airbags, but you had to spend another $3000 or so for it, which also included some other options. That was too expensive for what you get. Honda has similar package problems that push the leather interior. True the leather interior is attractive and cleans up nicely but with two large breed dogs we weren't about to buy a vehicle were they could poke holes in it right and left with their claws. Plus, have you seen a car that had leather when the owners neglected to care for it (treat and condition it)? Leather needs regular TLC and if you don't have the time to fuss over it, then I wouldn't opt for it just because your can wipe off a baby's mess a little faster. It is a real detriment to try to sell a car with cracked and worn seats. By then as a trade-in the dealership won't even pay you more for the fancy leather and you will be on an even playing field with cloth vans (who never had to pay the $3000 or more for it in the first place).
We have traditionally been big Honda fans. We've had a 1994 Civic, 1996 Civic (that we traded in for the Sienna) and a 2000 Accord that we still have. We were previously sold on the Odyssey, mainly for the Honda reliability, style and the folding third row seat. That is, until we went to several area Honda dealers in Indianapolis. One dealership in particular had 20 Odysseys on their lot and gave us the supply and demand song and dance, that used to be true for that model. Currently, you can go to any Honda lot around us now and pick up an Odyssey any day of the week. We've also noticed that you can find at least one Sienna on most Toyota lots now. We intended to trade in our 1996 Civic for an Odyssey until the dealership told us that they would not come down on the sticker price of the van and would not deal on the trade in. We even made a reasonable offer on a 2002 model, which they were asking close to the new sticker price for. They refused to come down on the price even though it had 20,000+ miles, it was a year old and needed cleaning up. As a result, we said to heck with Honda. Meanwhile, we noticed a new 2004 Sienna XLE limited in town.
We visited the dealership and looked at an LE. We were very impressed with the features and really liked the new design over the 2003. We took a brochure home and researched reviews on the internet. We went back and test drove an XLE limited, that happened to be there as an Indy 500 promo vehicle. We were very impressed with the ride and features. We finally struck a deal on the XLE cloth model, with no other options, other than arctic frost pearl paint for $220.
I'll summarize the review by categories.
Exterior
The change in design is what prompted us to consider the Sienna from the beginning. We always liked the clean cut look of the Honda Odyssey and couldn't bring ourselves to fall in love with the rounded off, bubble like design of the Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country. The lack luster design of the Kia Sedona and the Ford Windstar wasn't enough for us to seriously consider (though we have relatives that enjoy their Windstar). The boxy Chevy Astro was too utilitarian for our taste and the prices go through the roof adding any comparable options to the Sienna. I admit we didn't even consider the Pontiac Montana, Oldsmobile Silhouette or the Chevy Venture because they ranked dead last in safety and we had already had a bad experience with GM products (a Pontiac Grand Am which became nothing short of a nightmare, although GM makes some nice vehicles). The 2003 Sienna's design was somewhat plain, but it did have it's accolades being the top rated minivan in crash tests (KIA still claims that they are the safest even though it has been years since their model ranked first in that regard).
The 2004 Sienna has a distinct, clean line design with sharp rear and headlights. We had hesitated purchasing a van because of the chunky pudgy look that prevails in the industry, so the aesthetics of the 2004 exterior was key in getting us to cross over from a sedan. Check out Toyota's website, it allows you to browse the exterior and interior through a virtual tour.
The arctic frost pearl is one of the most striking colors for a vehicle that I've seen in some time. It really shows off the lines of the vehicle, although we've found all colors of the Sienna to be very attractive. The dark tinted windows look very nice against the white. Even when the vehicle is dirty, it still looks clean. The taillights, brake lights and turn signals are very bright and have good contrast in the daylight. The standard halogen headlights (the XLE limited offers HID lights) are the best headlights that I've ever had on a vehicle. The liftover height of the rear gate is quite low, which makes it easy to load and unload.
The vehicle has a towing prep package, which, according to the Toyota dealer and the Toyota customer service line, includes a heavy duty transmission cooler. I wanted to make sure that the transmission cooler was sufficient because heat is death to a transmission. I can tell you that Hidden Hitch makes a Class III receiver hitch, but it sits very very low to the ground. Following our purchase of the van, we had the Toyota dealer install the factory Class II, 3,500 lb gross trailer weight hitch. It is called the dual port system (DPS), which allows you to purchase Toyota accessories for hauling bikes, etc., although they are probably pricey. We struck a deal with the dealer for only $140 for the hitch, but if you pay full price, you're looking at $800. That includes the hitch, all wiring (which is run under the carpet inside) a ballmount and wiring. It looks very nice and does not sit too low. I would recommend that you strike a deal with the dealer to get this installed at the factory.
Additionally, if you tow with this van, go and spend $35 on a Drawtite model 36065 ballmount, which has a 5 inch rise and is several inches longer than the factory supplied mount. The factory mount is too short. I noticed that if the coupler on the trailer is big, it will likely hit the bumper, or be too close for comfort.
Although the XLE comes with factory rails and crossbars, I installed Yakima Lowrider towers and bars to accommodate my bike trays from my other vehicle. The Yakima rack fits on easily and very snugly. The rack is rated at 150 pounds, but I bet you can almost double that, assuming it is evenly distributed. It seems very beefy.
Interior
The interior is well laid out, with some minor issues. The controls are fairly easy to reach, but the stereo controls can be somewhat of a stretch. The XLE has the radio controls on the steering wheel, which is very convenient. I would highly recommend this. The 10-speaker JBL Synthesis stereo is very nice with a powered subwoofer. However, the subwoofer takes up what would otherwise be valuable storage space for a flashlight, jumper cables, etc.
The gages are well laid out and are easy to read. They have a nice blue background at night that is easy on the eyes. The power drivers seat is very comfortable and plush, as are all other seats. Two complaints are that the sunglass holder is mounted right above the drivers left side, which is very difficult to access. Because of this, we don't use the sunglass holder. The conversation or child mirror is a good idea, but is very small and doesn't allow the driver to get a full view of the middle seats. I would have placed the sunglass holder in its place or improved the design of the mirror instead. The center compass, fuel economy gage and homelink system is a nice touch too (a feature we really liked about the Town & Country).
The tilt/telescoping steering wheel is nice. The gearshift on the console is nice and easy to use. The large windshield is easy to see out of. There are some blind spots at the rear corners of the vehicle. We solved that problem by installing some 2-inch round blind spot mirrors on the upper outside edge of the side mirrors. The driver's auto up/down window is a nice feature, as well as the second row power windows, which are a first for a van. That gets some looks when they are down.
The middle row seats are comfortable and have lots of legroom. One complaint is that the seats are heavy and a tight fit to remove through the side doors. I noticed when moving the right second row seat to the middle position, there is a sharp edge on the rear hinge that put a deep scratch on the plastic trim piece on the floor when you are trying to align the seat with the proper location. It's only cosmetic, but was somewhat disappointing when I noticed the first scratch. I won't kid you, the middle seats are heavy, but they do remove, which is a nice feature. The middle seats are easy to tumble forward out of the way. Maybe they can consider a sliding middle seat like the Honda Odyssey next year.
The rear folding 60/40 seat is awesome. There is a fair amount of legroom in the rear seat too, especially when the middle seats are slid forward some. The reclining feature on the rear seat is much easier to use than the Odyssey. When the seat is up, there is a huge amount of storage space and you can use almost the entire space vertically. The Chrysler and Dodges appear to have a lot of room, but don't offer a folding seat plus you lose some space due to the curvature of the glass. The folding seat is very easy to use and is very adaptable too. With the middle seats out and the back seat down, you can fit 4X8 sheets of material in the back.
The power side and rear doors are very nice. They are easy to use and have a jam protection feature that prevents the doors from opening or closing if something or someone is in the way. There is also a master switch on the lower dash where you can turn the power sliding doors and rear gate off, so that they operate manually. This is a nice feature in certain instances, such as our garage where the gate would hit the door. There is also a lockout device on the fuel door so that when the fuel door is open, you cannot open the driver's side sliding door. You can try to open it, but it stops dead in its tracks immediately.
The fit and finish on the interior is excellent, with tons of storage compartments for the driver and passenger. I give Toyota a 10 for the removable center console. The cupholders are very big and so far, can accommodate any size cup. There are tons of bottle holders too. We do wish that the side and curtain air bags came standard.
Performance
Performance for a minivan is excellent. We've always had smaller cars, so this van is much bigger, but it's been easy to get used to. We've put 6,000 miles on it now. Due to the 5-speed transmission, it has different shift points than any other car I've driven. This helps it to accomplish good fuel economy. We are getting around 21-23 in mixed city and some highway driving. Strictly highway driving at 65-70 mph will get you around 26-28, depending on driving habits. We did a long trip with luggage and 5 people driving about 72 mph and got 28 mpg. An all-wheel-drive model will not get as good fuel economy. I've noticed that when you take off and once it gets into 5th gear, and suppose you have to speed up again, it shifts out of 5th more than I'm used to, but that's a matter of me getting used to the vehicle. You can also shift it out of overdrive and into fourth, if you are in mixed driving or city driving. Shifting is very smooth and the 230 hp engine, which is the same engine as the Lexus RX 330, is more than adequate. The engine runs at 2,000 rpms at 70 mph, which is very good. The interior noise level is very good and quiets road noise well.
Braking is very predictable and firm, but it takes some noticeable pressure on the pedal, but that's a matter of getting used to. The turning radius is exceptional. It turns tighter than most cars that I've driven. It is easily maneuverable in parking lots. Handling is very good. You'll notice, just like a pickup, that when you have some weight in the back end, it rides smoother, but is very smooth at all times.
Some people have complained about the drive-by-wire instead of an actual throttle cable. They are right in the fact that there is a split second lag, but I'm used to it now. If you are used to driving a peppy car and used to instant power, then you'll have to get used to this van. I don't see it as a show stopper if you are seriously considering this van. Be careful when you punch it all the way to the floor, because it will throw you back into the seat and surprise you. The van weighs in at 4,165 pounds, so it's no lightweight. You'll have no trouble taking off and merging from two lanes into one.
Some have also complained that the air conditioning is weak. We have found it very powerful. The XLE has a 3-zone system where the driver, passenger and rear have separate controls. The fan has 5 speeds and even in the 90 degree weather, it cools off quickly. You can turn the rear on and off from the driver seat, but you can't control the fan speed (low, med, high) or the location from where the air blows out (above, on the floor, or both). Perhaps on the next model they will add a feature where you can control everything from the driver seat. This is a minor detail though. I think the white also helps to keep the vehicle much cooler than a dark color. The tinted windows also make a huge difference in the amount of light that gets through to the interior, which makes it nice.
MAINTENANCE
I'm a big do-it-yourselfer and I've changed the oil twice now. I give Toyota a failing grade for design of the oil filter location. I also fail them for the design of the oil filler cap and filler port. The oil filter is kind of high up on the front of the engine, underneath the exhaust manifold. You have to be a contortionist to get to it. It is a difficult task whether you are above or below the vehicle. Plus, if you change the oil yourself, make sure that the vehicle is perfectly level. The reason? The oil filter is screwed on in a downward angle. Once removed, oil will come out, run down a built in splash guard/funnel and drip below the vehicle. If the van is level, then it will run down the funnel as designed. If not, you'll have oil everywhere like I did the first time. Once you remove the oil filler cap, there is a very small space for oil to enter the engine. The oil fill area is directed immediately to the left once the filler cap is removed. You must add oil very very slowly so that you won't overfill it.
Other than that, I have not had to do any other maintenance other than washing the vehicle and sweeping it out.
You may have heard about a recall on the 2004 vans having to do with the fuel tank. We called the dealer and learned that it only affected the first few thousand that were produced and they had already fixed the problem on models they are currently turning out. Plus they are compensating those that are affected by the recall with a rental car and free detailing. I talked at length about the nature of the recall with the dealer mechanic and concluded that this was no reason to stop us from buying the van especially when they have already fixed the problem. Toyota does seem quick and responsive about fixing any problems that may occur.
To Sum It Up:
We certainly did our homework in the purchase of this van and we have no regrets. The 2004 Toyota Sienna has taken the best features from all manufacturers and put them all in one van. They designed this vehicle to be a true competitor. We waited all summer for this vehicle (which was hard) and we could have gone and taken the Odyssey right off the lot but we truly feel that we have a superior vehicle and it was worth the wait. Honda's snobbery has made us doubt whether or not we ever buy another car from them. We paid a little more for the Sienna but got a heck of a lot more vehicle plus they gave us more for our Honda trade in. You can't beat it!
Van comparison reference:
There is a great article in Consumer Reports Magazine (October 2003 issue) testing and comparing minivans with a special close up on the Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey, Mazda MPV, Nissan Quest, Dodge Grand Caravan and the Kia Sedona.
Guess who they ranked #1!
The Sienna won with an "Excellent" rating, the Honda Odyssey 2nd with a "Very Good", followed by the Madza MPV, Nissan Quest, Dodge Grand Caravan, Chevy Venture, Ford Windstar and Kia Sedona.
Recommended:
Yes
Amount Paid (US$): 28686
Condition: New
Model Year: 2004
Model and Options: XLE, with cloth interior
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Epinions.com ID:
bradtaura
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Location: Indiana
Reviews written: 7
Trusted by: 1 member
About Me:
In a house where science and art meet, we form a well rounded perspective.
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