Discussing the Validity of Violent Aesthetics in Music OR Drugs 'N Guns Can Be Cool!
May 30 '01 (Updated Jun 15 '01)
The Bottom Line As long as violence and drugs have a place in our society, they will have a place in our music. OR Life sucks; write a song about it.
Recently, jkkelley and I got together via email and discussed violence in music. His expertise in Irish music and my knowledge of Hip Hop provided us with a common ground with which to tackle the issue.
Your screen begins to ripple like a Scooby Doo flashback (thanks to kris_kochanski for that smegging cool term) as the conversation begins...
madtheory: Hey guy! Did you happen to check out the Hip-Hop Appreciation Week Write-Off I hosted on May 14? Those writers did an excellent job! I love that event, because it’s a time when Hip-Hoppers around the globe can come together in peace and the spirit of the culture. Hopefully, their work and the work of other writers, artists, and organizers, will help to eliminate the negative, violent stereotype that Hip-Hop music carries.
jkkelley: I did check it out, and it gave me food for thought. I have to admit, to be completely honest, that Hip-Hop carries that stereotype with me--or at least it did in the past, so then I got to wondering. I’ve loved Irish music since I was a kid, and a lot of the lyrics to classic Irish folk stuff--Clancy Brothers, in particular—seem to touch on themes similar to those considered controversial about Hip-Hop.
madtheory: Really? What specific themes have you noticed that they share?
jkkelley: Bear in mind, of course, that a lot of what I know about Hip-Hop I only think I know, because it’s based on popular perception and headlines rather than serious listening. That said, a lot of Irish music seems to glorify violence, or at least to treat it very cavalierly. The ‘police’—either regular police or the British Army—are considered acceptable targets for anything. And while there’s a good deal of difference between alcohol and other drugs, Irish folk music has romanticized drunkenness—an ethnic stereotype if ever there was one--as a signature theme.
madtheory:. Yes, those themes are definitely paralleled in rap music. Given the animosity that has historically existed between African Americans and the Police, this anti-police facet quickly became incorporated into Hip-Hop’s persona. The violence and drug aspect, while reaching unparalleled popularity as of late, has always been a part of the music in one form or another. Granted, my limited knowledge of Irish culture goes no further than House of Pain, The Boston Celtics, “Danny Boy” and the “Lucky Charms” breakfast cereal, but it seems these two cultures have fundamental similarities that causes the need for these themes to be expressed in music.
jkkelley: *laughing* Well, we start on as equal a footing as we can get. All I know about Hip-Hop is that it’s associated with African American culture and rap music, but you’ve written of—I’m paraphrasing here—the ‘spirit’ of Hip-Hop’. In fact, that’s partly what inspired my interest. Could you articulate for me what the term ‘Hip-Hop’ really means? What is that ‘spirit’?
madtheory: No problem. Take a sip of that Guinness, ‘cause I’m going to be talking for a while. Hip-Hop is a subculture that emerged from NY in the late 1970’s. It’s elements include Emceeing (rap), Deejaying, Breakdancing, Graffiti, BeatBoxing (making music with the mouth), Street Fashion (style of dress), Street Language (slang), Street Knowledge (being able to survive and thrive in a subculture), and Street Entrepreneurship (investing in the community). The spirit of Hip-Hop is to be able to incorporate all these elements successfully and positively into everyday life.
And actually, even though it’s associated with African Americans, it’s not purely an African American thing. Even since it’s inception, other races have been involved with Hip-Hop. Puerto Ricans in NY were breaking, rapping, and graf writing since day one. And now in 2001, Hip-Hop is a worldwide occurrence, with Hip-Hoppers of different races in Italy, Germany, Sweden, Australia, UK, Japan, and many other countries. It is definitely one of the first cultures that is completely independent of race and religion. In each country, Hip-Hop takes a slightly different shape, to reflect certain aspects of the life of the Hip-Hoppers. For example, the violence aspect, while it’s a dominant premise in American Hip-Hop, is all but missing from the Japanese Hip-Hop I’ve listened to.
jkkelley: I bet a lot of other people are as blown away by that as I am. Talk about ‘tip of the iceberg’ clichés. It’s strictly an urban culture, I gather?
madtheory: Absolutely. I mean, kids still rap, dance, tag, and do other Hip-Hop related activities out in the ‘burbs, but Hip-Hop is definitely an Urban movement. Its heart is in the city.
jkkelley: Thanks—now I’m a little better grounded. What this really tells me is that the controversial aspects of Hip-Hop represent a small segment of it rather than being its heart and soul. And this, too, is paralleled in Irish music. A lot of it is instrumental (harp, bodhrán, Uillean pipes), and a lot of it has nothing to do with drinking, bombing or fighting the British. Positive themes in Irish music include roving (self-sufficient travel), love, humour, and the ongoing struggle for cultural respect—the refusal to simply be submerged. Even where not similar, the themes are kindred—or at least that’s how they seem to me.
madtheory: Exactly. Hip-Hop is not just about the drugs, or guns, or violence, it’s about self-expression and respect. When an artist chooses to express himself using violent phrases or situations in their raps, it’s usually just as a tool to help the artist share some part of their thoughts and ideas. Violence and controversy certainly have a place in Hip-Hop, as it should in almost any music genre, just not in the extreme that the media leads the public to believe.
jkkelley: Self-expression and respect are themes for which those of Irish heritage have really had to struggle, both in the old country and the new. We can relate—or should be able to. I guess the question that raises for me is this: why does Irish music get a pass, and Hip-Hop get casted as the music of drug violence? Any theories, mad or otherwise?
madtheory: Of course. You can’t be a theorist without theories right? There are a few reasons why Hip-Hop has been typecast in this way. First, since rap music was spawned from an urban environment, violence and drug selling/abuse naturally found their way into the music. Seeing as these themes do appear repeatedly, it’s easy for folks to say that this is the only subject matter the music ever deals with.
Secondly, consider this: rap music didn’t even get popular until violence and drugs became dominant themes. Rap music has been in existence since around 1977, but didn’t get recognized as a valid genre of music by respected American music organizations (i.e. Grammy Awards) until 1988. If you look at Hip-Hop’s timeline, that was around the time hardcore and gangsta rap really took off as N.W.A’s Straight Outta Compton (their second album) was released that same year. So for most non-rap listeners, rap music really didn’t even exist until the attraction (or disgust) of rap music’s drug and violence aesthetics forced it into mainstream America’s living room.
jkkelley: Well, that would seem to be part of it. A lot of Irish music that contains violent and substance abuse themes predates the rise of television; the ‘Troubles’ of Belfast and Derry were old hat (and, thus, not very good US network news material) by the early days of rap. We tend to accept as normal that which we have experienced enough times.
You know what I think has a lot to do with it, though? Harsh language—specifically, certain words, such as those beginning with F and N. I was raised that neither word was tolerable, and in the case of the second, I’m still offended when I hear it. I think the first time many people—especially older people—hear one of those words in rap music, they write off the whole sound, and with it Hip-Hop. And to me that seems like a classic example of throwing the proverbial infant out along with the washbasin contents.
madtheory: For me, it’s all about putting things in the proper context. For example, when I was much younger, I thought Picasso’s Guernica was one of the most twisted and offensive works I had ever seen. Then one year my art teacher put the painting into the proper historical context (The Spanish Civil War). That’s when the painting finally started making sense. For a lot of these rappers, it’s the same basic idea. They use the words as forms to paint a picture. Sometime the forms are ugly because the artwork needs to be ugly. It’s a matter of stepping back and looking at the “big picture” so to speak.
I agree that the profanities can be especially off-putting to some folks, but I believe that they actually are extremely useful as a form of expression. The problem comes when they are used excessively and without thought or reason. That’s when the power of the words becomes diluted.
jkkelley: Okay, that makes good sense. And the knee-jerk reaction that some words tend to inspire has exactly the ‘hot button’ effect you described in the Picasso work. From what you describe, though, there’s a lot of Hip-Hop out there that doesn’t push the buttons. By the same token, the majority of Irish music has nothing to do with mortar attacks on the Royal Ulster Constabulary.
Seems to me two standards are applied—not so much by the general populace, but by those who report on current events, and who therefore give that populace its information. The problem with saying ‘the media sucks’, of course, is that you usually read that story in where? The media! How do you see this?
madtheory: I’ll shout ‘the media sucks’ from the highest mountain any day of the week. They know that violence and pain will get more ratings or market share than stories that help or inspire. Take those mortar attacks you mentioned as an example. I can remember watching the news and seeing images of the devastation caused by the political strife in Ireland, but I honestly have absolutely no idea what they’re fighting about and any measures they’ve taken towards peace.
Similarly, last week a large Hip-Hop delegation including KRS-One, Chuck D, Reverend Al Sharpton, and several foreign dignitaries had a summit at the United Nations to discuss Hip-Hop’s negative image, and strategies to change that image. This international event has basically been completely ignored by the media. Type in ‘United Nations’ and ‘Hip-Hop Summit’ into almost any search engine and you get jack. Type in ‘rapper’ and ‘gun’ and see how many hits you get.
jkkelley: Love that turn of phrase about the highest mountain, and the more so because I tend to agree. Look at this whole discussion, for instance. There is no way it would make either of our local papers; we have to go to a review website just to see it published at all. Maybe that’s because it’s an amicable, rational discussion rather than a polarizing, sensationalized peeing match. We’re not newsworthy when we’re working to educate ourselves and others.
I was intrigued enough by the search engine suggestion to do precisely that. For the UN and the summit, I got three, count ‘em, three hits— ‘jack’ is a fair description of that. For ‘rapper’ and ‘gun’ I got 23,200. Replace ‘gun’ with ‘crack’ and I got 8,260. For just ‘Hip-Hop Summit’, 202—and that’s covering all types of Hip-Hop summits, I assume.
madtheory: Precisely. And most of those 202 hits will most likely come from alternative news sites; the ones that already deal with African American, Urban, or Hip-Hop culture. I doubt very many mainstream news companies touched it at all. It’s very difficult to overcome a damaging stereotype when one can’t get the positive characteristics out to the public.
jkkelley: *laughing* Never really thought of myself as the ‘alternative media’. I don’t have the right ‘do for it.
madtheory: *laughing also* I’m sure they’d love to have you regardless. Anyway, so what are we coming up with here? What would you put as a ‘Bottom Line’ on this conversation so far?
jkkelley: Not quite sure we’ve got one yet, but I think we’ve got some candidates—it may be more than one factor. My take is:
a) First and foremost, violence and drugs in America scare Americans, so they make good media copy. They are also less work to report on than something positive and proactive.
b) By contrast, violence and drunkenness (and other forms of tragedy) in another country, while culturally relevant to a lot of us, don’t really scare Americans, thus they aren’t very good copy. In the same way, for example, what happens in sub-Saharan Africa—currently, nothing less than the die-off of a whole generation—is culturally relevant to a lot of us as well, but since it happens on another continent, our population will click from CNN to Fox News if asked to confront the tragedy of Rwanda for more than five seconds.
c) I was prepared at the outset to think of it as partly racially motivated, and while I don’t think that racism can be ruled out, it’s clear to me that Hip-Hop has gone beyond ethnicity to become a mainstream culture, increasing in relevance as awareness of positive factors increases.
d) –and maybe as a result of some or all of the above: we should not forget that the music industry is Big Business. I’m not inherently opposed to big business, but I’ve learned to watch it like a hawk. And one thing that’s not only certain, but natural to expect from it: it will act to protect itself. It could well be that Hip-Hop, with its unique musical expression and cultural promotion of independence, is seen by them as a threat.
e) –and perhaps (sorry for running on… I got on a bit of a roll), by extension, Hip-Hop poses a greater threat as it goes more mainstream because it may tend to blur or eliminate boundaries—boundaries that desperately want eliminating. Maybe the notion of people respecting one another and working together without concern for heritage terrifies some in high places. I never really thought of my purchase of a rap CD as an act of political defiance, but if I had, I might have done it sooner.
Of course, I could be all wet, and part of that could just be my own predispositions talking. What do you think?
madtheory: I agree with all those points, but let me add one more. Violence and drugs definitely sell in the entertainment industry. This is easily evidenced by the success of action movies, shows, and cartoons. It’s only natural that forms of media other than the visual arts should follow this trend.
jkkelley: During the 1970s, when hockey violence was tending to vault the teams with the most thugs into dominance of the game, a hockey executive said: “We’re either going to have to curb the fighting, or build bigger arenas.” Since then, almost every team that existed at that time has moved to a new, larger arena. Sound like a familiar refrain?
madtheory: Ha! I didn’t know that! But I guess it makes perfect sense. For over a decade people have complained about the violence in Hip Hop, and the entertainment industry in general. However, the only change brought about was the exponential growth of the respective industries, driven by the selling power of these unhealthy aesthetics. I guess that might say something about society. We all want peace (I assume) but something deep inside us wants or needs to see those darker parts of our ego reflected somewhere.
I guess that it can be argued that an artist does actually have a social responsibility to present the unpleasant aspects of our world, such as drug abuse and violence, to us in art. It’s just as much a part of human existence as the decent things, and just as worthy of artistic exploration.
jkkelley: Well said. Mad, it was good talking with you. *raising beer mug* Sláinte!
madtheory: Thanks! It’s great were able to have this discussion. *raising glass of iced tea* Cheers!
madtheory note: This piece was actually jkkelley's idea so be sure to stop by his profile page and read a whole bunch of his work.
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