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everything you need it to for now (Reply to this comment)
by hattrix
Some have suggested they researched a PC vs Mac and got one for half the price. Keeping with the car theme...I can get a used Yugo for half of a used Toyota or Honda. The Yugo will do what I need it to. It will get me to and from my destination. It will play a car radio and a heater and an A/C. It will have four tires and an engine. So why the heck do none of us buy Yugo's. Because they SUCK!!! As does a $500 PC. It will do basic functions for about 2 years and then start to have trouble. If using the car analogy, you decide that instead of just to and from work you want to take a road trip, you can't trust the Yugo will make it. If you decide you want to run a nice presentation or a complex spreadsheet on your $500 PC, good luck. If you decide you want that hot new game that came out, good luck. If you decide you want to start using it to store your families movies and pics, remember what they look like so when the PC crashes you won't forget them. Comparing apples to apples (no pun intended) a PC cannot stand up to a Mac. It just can't. Now for the average home user who will never due more than right emails to their grandson Jimmy and play Suduku's than a PC is fine. However, I would NEVER trust my job to a visual presentation done on a PC. Sorry, but them's the facts.
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Feb 04 '07
8:17 pm PST
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Re: 2 years later (Reply to this comment)
by hattrix
When reading opinion pages I never am more suspicious than when someone comes out with an opinion to disprove it and says the same company name 3 times!!! How long have you worked for Gateway?? I am currently writing this on a Gateway and it is the biggest piece of junk I have ever owned. I had a Dell and a Compaq laptop and thought they were ok until I started working on my buddies Macbook. It was easier, faster and more user friendly than any PC I have ever been on. Some have said that a PC vs Mac is a matter of opinion. True if you are running solitaire or just doing Word all the time. However, for presentations, databases, movies, dvd's and complex spreadsheets a PC doesn't come close. I don't even own a MAC. I have to borrow my friends. It is so much better than the P.O.S. that I have here it is worth the effort to borrow his. I am buying one in a month when my tax return comes back and taking the "ax" referred to in the earlier comment to my P.O.S. Gateway. Thanks for a clearly uninformed opinion.
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Feb 04 '07
8:08 pm PST
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Excellent analysis (Reply to this comment)
by mercure
Thank you iBen for a well-written analysis. There are obvious differences between PC and Macs, but the key to focus on, is that the Mac is an integrated experience, whereas the PC is piecemeal and has compatibility issues. This is a profound difference.
You can have a souped-up car with parts from different sources, or one good luxury car experience where everything is designed to work as one unit for total user experience. Both can get you from A to B, but how easy was the ride, did any parts crash, and where there any viruses to slow you down?
Excellent review of Macs and PCs!
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Aug 07 '06
3:17 pm PDT
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Re: You have my vote! (Reply to this comment)
by criteeker
As an owner of Mac computers since my first Mac Classic, I have watched Mac evolve from basic toys to solid machines to amazing design and cutting edge technology leaders. With this review, I see (now) why you are on the level of trust with so many. Like Howard Creech, I, now, regard you as a very informed guru on all things Mac. Although I do own both a Mac G4 and a Dell PC, my heart still leans toward the Mac side. After all, there are good reasons why the D.O.D. and US Army have switched over to Mac. I believe they did that right around the time of that scary Y2K bug scare. Although, in the grand scheme of things, being on my Web of Trust might be a small token, you are on my WOB nonetheless!
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Nov 21 '03
8:32 pm PST
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Silicon Graphics? (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
SGI machines really aren't competition for Apple's core graphics market. Apple and the Mac has a strong influence among Photoshop users... Photoshop does not run on SGI machines.
Also, DTP applications like Indesign and Quark are the Mac's bread and butter applications.... again, SGI machines do not run Adobe Indesign or Quark....
SGI is mainly used for workstation and higher level work... render farms and high end 3d graphics for expensive hollywood movies. This is an area that Apple, in the first 20 years of its existence, did not touch...
If anything Apple is invading SGI's traditional market with the G5... in fact, Pixar has almost all but completely endorsed the G5 as their new badass tool.
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Aug 21 '03
5:41 pm PDT
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Re: 2 years later (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
I am not a novice. I am a tried and true power user and although i was originally a mac user, i made the decision to stay with the mac over Windows XP years ago... it is not fair to say that the mac is *just* for novices. Mac OS X is up to snuff with nearly any UNIX distribution you can find... in many respects, such as in the area of graphics acceleration, the Mac is superior to UNIX.
The Mac has evolved into something that appeals to everyone. it has always been more friendly for novices, and that is a strong market for Apple, but with their new OS, they are making ground into workstation and server spaces...
I cannot emphasize this enough. Today, the Mac is absolutely something for everyone. I am a pro that consistently take advantage of the multimedia capabilities and the unix infrastructure. Its marvelous what i can do here that would be a hassle with a Windows XP machine .
I do not see any reason why the G5 is "loosing ground." Please explain.
As a software developer, i can tell you absolutely contrary to what you said... developers are NOT fleeing the Mac platform like rats from a sinking ship... in fact, with Mac OS X, Apple has managed to attract many many UNIX developers and Java developers and enthusiasts brand new to any type of programming to develop apps for the Mac...
In fact, over the past 3 years since Mac OS X's release, the community of Mac OS developers has TRIPLED in size.
You speak about Internet browsers. True, Internet Explorer is no longer being updated for Mac... but ANYONE who has spent even a little time with IE 5.2 for Mac OS X knows that it was Microsoft's failure. IE for mac was a horrid application that is vastly inferior to anything on Mac or PC now. Microsoft stopped development on it simply because it is not a commercial product, and it makes little monetary sense to keep developing that slow bloated application internet explorer for mac...
But the situation is simply not as bleak as you make it out to be...
First of all you're not completely informed. Apple has created their own web browser... it has been around since January, its based on open source code, and is called Safari.
Safari is everything that IE was not... its its fast, its got tabbed browsing and integrated pop up blocking. Moreover, its a 4 MB download...
There are just as many alternative browsers on the Mac as there are on the PC nowadays. You speak of netscape, but that totally isn't the only boat in town... Mozilla is still alive and kicking and out with their version 1.5 for both Mac and PC.
other native Mac browsers include the open source project Camino. Also, there is the independent project OmniWeb.
Finally, Opera 7 will be Mac OS X compatible as well.
developers are definitely not fleeing the mac as you say. You are commenting based on your observations of the very tip of the iceberg... Microsoft, Netscape, etc... you simply do not see the strong software developer backing that the Mac has... In June of this year, Apple's World Wide Developer Conference, where Apple invites its developer community to learn more about their new initiatives, record attendance was recorded.
You seem to think that Microsoft is abandoning the Mac completely because of IE... this is simply not true. The IE project was terminated because it would be far too costly and not profitable at all (the browser is free after all) to overhaul it to bring it into working order for Mac... plus, Safari was in town, so it would be unlikely that they would continue to dominate the browser market on Mac...
Microsoft's other Mac software offerings are stronger than ever. Office v. X was just updated this week with lower prices and new features... Microsoft is now offering Virtual PC bundled with Office Pro for Mac. They are still serious about making Mac software.
First of all, you really cannot trust a salesman in a PC store to talk about Mac developers... that man definitely isn't a Mac developer himself and has no input into that realm other than what he sees in the store... of course he will tell you that there is no software for the mac... its easier and more profitable for him (commission) for him to sell you a new PC than to point you in the direction of upgrade parts.
As for your point about Gateway... like i said in this article 2 years ago, it is not impossible to do these things like video and DVD burning on PC... but the Mac is more seamless because Apple takes time to integrate the hardware and their own software better.
Thank you for commenting.
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Aug 21 '03
5:22 pm PDT
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2 years later (Reply to this comment)
by dandino
Just read your review, nicely argued, but it's out of date.
I use computers constantly for work and at home. I have an iMac sitting in my office at home, and I hate it. A coworker has the updated eMac, it's worse than the iMac. My fiancee works on a new beefed up Mac with os-x and a dvd burner. it was a waste, all they do is ruin blank dvd's, that is when the computer dosn't freeze up.
I can't count how many times I've not been able to do work on a Mac and have simply taken my work home to work on my Gateway. My Gateway has NEVER disappointed me.
I do agree with you, mac's are built for people who don't know the first thing about computers. I remember one of their commercials that boasted about how you need fewer cords to plug in. But the harsh reality is now, mac's are slipping. Even with their new G5 chip, they are loosing ground. One of our machines is run by a Mac. We wanted to upgrade our system, but the salesman told us we would have to buy a PC because companies simply aren't programming for mac's anymore. Microsoft has released their final version of explorer for mac. Any future updates will either have to be done by Netscape Navigator or Mac will have to start one from scratch. Navigator just layed off all but 12 of their employees.
I learned how to use macs first. I saw PC and never looked back. I hear so much about Macs can do this and this and that. My response is that my Gateway does the same thing.
I wonder what your thoughts are now that the software pool is drying up for Macs. Their prominance in the graphics department is slipping to Silocone Graphics. A complete Dell or Gatway can be purchased for under 500 bucks now too.
Do you still think Mac has a future?
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Aug 20 '03
6:01 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by comp-scientist
Sure. Report me. It will just make you look like a fool.
I will not write reviews. Even if I do, I suggest you not rate them negatively just because I thought yours were inane.
I just signed-up for an account so I can write comments and see ratings. Also, to make sure nobody in the tech department writes something stupid.
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Jul 02 '03
3:58 pm PDT
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Very Good Points Made: (Reply to this comment)
by ASourdough4
Thanks for the comparisons - after so many years of struggles with vendors, I think I understand enough that I could switch - if I were not retired and with limited descretionary cash.
No question, the PC business is a version of the Blind Leading the Blind. As for applications, I dreamed up one after my son gave us a CD loaded with *.jpeg images from his trip to Europe, etc. To show them on our TeeVee, he had to copy the CD to my PC Hard Drive (28MB), then copy batches of files to the CompactFlash Card (16MB) in my Digital Camera. Only then did we have a TV connection via NTSC Cable from the camera (HP 618).
I moaned and griped that our new DVD Player (Sony DVP-NS315) had terrific new circuits in it: therefore, it should be able to "Play" those *.jpeg images right off of his CD. It won't but newer (Sony) models will. I found some software to do the trick but it took 6 hours to transfer 400 MB to the CD-R/W disc. That's what inspired me to "Max Out" my PC RAM.
After feeding the PC makers since 1986, I think that nearly every PC I have seen has been bare bones minimum capability; always with plenty of upgrade capacity. (Earlier this year, I chronicled my battle to upgrade the RAM on our year old HP 7920 - vague specs, evasive dealers, everyone wanting to sell me a new PC. Two slots, 2 256MB DIMM, one from Staples, the second from Office Depot (a mile apart). Incredible!
But, this PC really runs now!
It is not an issue of using max PC capacity; it is simply a problem of getting the derned thing to work at all!
BTW: The easiest persons to instruct in using a PC were people who had learned Apple first. Thus, Windows was not a big deal for them. In a way, I'm sorry I ever bought an IBM 8088 so long ago. The store had an equal amount of Apple products on display; my employer, however, had standardized on IBM. (1 MB Ram on the board.)
Thanks again - I just had a question from a Mac user about a printer - wish I had been able to refer him to you. Or vice versa.
Maurice McDonell = Asourdough4
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Jul 01 '03
4:37 pm PDT
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Re: Re: brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
comp-scientist... i think it is time for me to remind you that i have NOT rated any of your reviews negatively... in fact you do not have any reviews. You are a new user...
or are you? I just want you (kenikov/comp-scientist) to know that i've reported you for multiple accounts.
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Jun 16 '03
6:53 pm PDT
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Re: brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
Thanks brad. I'll take you up on your offer to chat. :-)
I agree there is a bias in this review, but I wrote it 2 years ago and I think I've gotten a bit more perspective in that time.
Thank you!
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Jun 16 '03
12:07 pm PDT
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Re: Re: brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
Thanks for your comment comp-scientist.
I disagree with you on some points, but I'll prove that I'm not terribly biased by letting it go. :-)
Good luck to you on your new Epinions career....
Oh, and one more thing, I think the BMW - Mac comparison isn't all that bad. You said that all car companies share parts, and my comment on that is... so do computer companies, even Apple. Apple uses the same hard drives, same RAM chips, same PCI cards, and USB and IEEE 1394 devices as you might find in a PC.
Like a car, its a matter of how those same pieces are all put together, and the machine as a whole, which is the same with a computer.
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Jun 16 '03
11:56 am PDT
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Re: Re: brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by kenikov
I'm glad someone took notice to his name besides me.
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Jun 15 '03
12:35 pm PDT
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Re: brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by comp-scientist
All that technical geek talk that sell computers does matter.
Your GHz does matter. AMD users don't think it does, because they've proven it, but they are not thousands of MHz behind like your computer is and your computer still results as slower.
So, shall we just disregard everything to the advantage of PCs?
I own a Mac and 3 PCs that runs under SuSE, Mandrake, Redhat or Windows. The Mac is the best laptop I've ever used, but the PC is more versatile.
No comparision.
Quasar -
No it hasn't ended up in insults, he has however voted most of my Mac reviews that have rated Mac products below 3 stars "Not Helpful." Dr.Steph, spoken like a true MacAddict? I would agree. Butcher people's reviews because they don't completly favour Apple's products as perfect. We shoudl expect this, since he named himself after a Product of Apple.
Aliasfox -
I own a BMW. Don't compare it to an Apple Computer nor a PC, it's just stupid. BMW parts go into each other okay? All car companies do it, they share parts.
The Chevy Corvette is super-fast and can beat my BMW out in a race. What is your point?
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Jun 15 '03
12:33 pm PDT
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brad's Take (Reply to this comment)
by brad
Hey there Ben. Thank you for leaving the comments on my review in this category. I found your comments engaging and worthy of merit, for certain. However, we probably misunderstood each other in you reading into some of my points, as well as me reading into your comments, and in reading this review as well.
I appreciate the argument you put forward in this editorial. Unfortunately, I detect a bit of the stereotypical "Mac user bias" in it. You didn't bring in some of Windows' critical advantages, so that was a bit disappointing. I think in a "versus" editiorial, a bit more objectivity could have been exercised, rather than focusing solely on the comprehensive Mac experience and simple IBM specifications.
Still, this is incredibly well written and many of your points, most, have merit. I agree with your general view that Apple commits itself to satisfying the consumer, far more than its Windows industry counterparts.
We should have a debate sometime on IM over general performance issues. There is a lot of points I would like to make for you, and I would like to get your reactions.
As for the "multi-tasking" debate that I wrote in my editorial, yes, I was referring to what you call "behavorial multi-tasking." My reviews are always targeted at "the average Joe," and so I would not use geek terminology in my reviews, at least not without explaining. I stand firm that Windows is a more productive operating system, in terms of multi-tasking, for 99.9 percent of computer users. This is the age of the mouse, and using keystrokes or keyboard shortcuts are in the days of DOS and overwhelmingly, in general, only used by people in your profession. The average computer user manages the OS with the mouse, and having to go back and forth between the mouse and the keyboard is an inconvenience.
I know guys just like you who know all the keyboard shortcuts. Some of them barely touch a mouse. It's amazing.
Anyhow, it would be fun to debate some of these points in an IM medium. You can find my IM information at my website (www.bradsnet.com).
And as for credentials, I'm a self taught intermediate level computer user. I would put myself in the top 1%, as far as computer know how. Guys like you are in the top .1%. As you well know, there is a big difference between the three tiers.
Hope we can hook up sometime online. See you around. Great job with this! Yours, brad.
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May 12 '03
12:35 pm PDT
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Re: you suck (Reply to this comment)
by matcho
Sounds like someone is using "mommy and daddy's computer"
grow up kid
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Apr 21 '03
8:53 am PDT
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Good opinion (Reply to this comment)
by rick_k
I agree with most of what you said, but you missed some things. With Mac OS X you forgot to mention how simple it is to just plug something into your new mac and have it just work. Apple did a lot of work in this area. I for one just plugged my Canon digital camera into my G4 and it launched the app to download and work with the digital pictures. In OS 9 I had to install the software from Canon, but after that it works just great. The iPod, simply the best MP3 player you can buy (according to the press). Have used one for a little while and like it, don't have one because I don't have a need for one. Appeal, no other computer make you think "I have to buy that" or "I want one" like a Mac does. When you see a Dell or Gateway, your first thought isn't I want it. Prime example, the new iMac. I have seen people flock to it in the new Apple Store. They ooh and aww at it, the sales people really don't have to work hard to sell them, they sell themselves. There is a waiting list for the new iMacs (just like there was on the original iMac). Apple make a complete product and sells it on the strength of what it does. PC makers sell in volume and based on specs that are irrelevant (the mhz, and price myths). I really enjoyed reading your opinion, keep up the good work
Rick_K
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Jan 30 '02
7:52 pm PST
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you suck (Reply to this comment)
by oasis789
you can shove it up your f ucking imac!
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Oct 29 '01
10:33 pm PST
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Eloquent... (Reply to this comment)
by aliasfox
For once, the car analogy actually fits! An addendum (did I spell that right?) could be an example from GM: many of the same parts go in a Buick LeSabre as go in, say, a Chevy TrailBlazer. Because of this, neither car is particularly luxurious nor rugged, and we all know they both lack the style of a Benz or BMW!
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Oct 07 '01
6:47 pm PDT
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Excellent (Reply to this comment)
by quasar
You presented that very well. This is one of the few PC vs. Mac discussions I've heard that doesn't degrade into name calling and insults.
Keep up the good work!
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Jul 30 '01
6:30 am PDT
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You have my vote! (Reply to this comment)
by Dr_Steph,  in Computer Hardware
Spoken like a truly devoted Mac addict! I couldn't agree more. :)
Steph
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Jul 28 '01
11:21 am PDT
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Comprehensive review! (Reply to this comment)
by CoolGobi
You make a good case for Macs. But I must say that major PC makers are catching up on the concept - but are not quite there yet.
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Jul 27 '01
4:19 pm PDT
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