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What is E-Prime? (Reply to this comment)
by tooplayful
To clarify the reviewer's question:
"What is this E-Prime?":
This on explains how E-prime can help a writer's style:
http://www.asiteaboutnothing.net/w_eprime.html
There's more about e-prime in specialized mags like ETC (not so readable) and there are anthologies (Amazon).
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Dec 22 '08
6:32 am PST
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Re: I+couldn't+help+but+think+of+"How+to+Work+a+Room"+.+.+.+ (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
Hi, Howard! Thanks much for the comment (and compliments, most of all). As for the author's glib, pat, and all inclusive advice in her self-help book you mentioned, those are my exact points.
She could not know your personality (that you are a shy, reserved type of guy), and her personality is no match to your own. Therefore, her "suggestions" would miss you and your concerns, completely. You cannot give a person courage, merely by insisting he/she should be courageous, can you? In the same token, how can you demand a person lose their shyness, simply by stating that they should?
More importantly, once we've made the affected person feel as though their concern(s) are inappropriate, and "silly" we only make matters worse for that person, because now they'll feel much more incompetent-- some of them, even to the point of hopelessness. Their concerns have just become dire problems, all because an author unfamiliar with the readers' innate personae, gave her thoughts as rock-solid truths, unretractable fact. An author who had not even considered attempting to relate by way of "placing herself in the other person's shoes" before giving such potentially destructive "advice".
And, finally, your last compliment & question: "Also, you did a good job with e-prime and carried it artfully over a long review. Does the "are" in the footnote count as a violation?"
Well, Howard, I considered that, too. However, I came to the conclusion that the source/resource that I referenced might have looked unkindly to my "alteration" in their definition. So, I passed on making that faux pas, opting to let it stand as it had been defined by the source. What do you think?
Thanks, again. My, I do tend to ramble, don't I? lol
Rouchelle
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Aug 08 '01
9:54 am PDT
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I couldn't help but think of "How to Work a Room" . . . (Reply to this comment)
by Howard_U
. . . which I recently reviewed. My one great complaint about the book was that the author had no idea why I needed help working a room to begin. She obviously enjoyed working a room, but telling a wallflower like me to just relax and enjoy it didn't help very much. To that extent, your review is right on point.
Also, you did a good job with e-prime and carried it artfully over a long review. Does the "are" in the footnote count as a violation?
Take care,
Howard
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Aug 07 '01
7:01 pm PDT
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Re: Your+"inspire+me"+vs.+"help+me"+line+was+actually.... (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
Nick,
correct on every point in your assessment. The real problem with "self-help" books falls on the little person who doesn't know better. He/she thinks the answer to their troubles lies within the pages of a single book or will issue forth from the glib sentences spoken during the one seminar they attend.
Then, one such "self-help" medium breeds yet another, and another, until they've done all the seminars, read all the literature, yet cannot for the sake of them work out their own lives. I cannot take part in that type market with clear conscience. Therefore, I will not write one of those quick-fix books, nor do a one-stop-fits-all seminar (and I've had offers, too). Too confusing to the person caught in the middle.
I have, and just might again, organized and presented self-improvement workshops. Which differs in that their design covers the individual through a network of fact-finding techniques which begins as much as one to two months in advance of any scheduled workshop. Each one works from an individual standpoint through personal contact with said attendee or through written format. It works because the attendee must work (on themselves and/or their concern) to get anything from it.
Thanks for dropping by, Nick. Hope your birthday was a bang. The big 5-0 is one of the ones to remember! As for those tiny two I found (though I noticed someone else mentioned two I never even saw), the posting was so hellacious, who even cares. I enjoyed it too much. Like with Jan, think I overdone it here. So, I'll cut it, now.
Rouchelle
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Aug 03 '01
7:52 am PDT
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Your "inspire me" vs. "help me" line was actually.... (Reply to this comment)
by NFP
...quite profound.
I think the issue comes to the definition of "inspiration" vs. "help."
I made several errors of form in my e-prime write-off entry. I didn't need "inspiration" to write it because I worked hard at it. What I needed was "help" on how to proof read more carefully so as not to miss several "to be" derivations. Going further, few would argue that the Dale Carnegie books don't help make one a more successful businessman.
On the other hand, I agree with you that in most cases the "help" being offered by these self-help books is marketed as "motivation" rather than assistance with specific tasks, like a paper on how to proof-read better, or a book or course offering sp[ecific tips on how to be a better negotiator or businessman.
I guess in your scenario they figure just buying the book is motivation enough, and presumably you'll credit them with whatever positive result ensues. I agree with you that in most cases this is a rip-off and a waste of time.
Good, provocative post.
cheers,
nick
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Aug 03 '01
7:14 am PDT
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Re: Positive+and+- (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
[your quote]~ "BRILLIANT, SPARKLING, RADIANT AND EXTREMELY INTELLIGENT. I think Norman Vincent Peal's book does a lot to inspire, and of course The Holy Bible is the most inspirational of all. You are such a good writer - we are all lucky to be able to read your work on Epinions."
Thanks, Virginia for your lovely (and most complimentary, as usual) comment. I agree. It goes without saying The Holy Bible has inspirational, and motivational, properties--most varied and incomparable. If anyone questions that fact, I challenge them to read the Psalms of David for poetry to inspire, causing the most disgruntled soul to take wings and soar to the heavens above.
Or, if necessary, we can unfailingly get the most sloven of creatures--who feels he's (or she's) got all the time in the world--motivated to pick up and move by the motivational (if sometimes quite frightful) words found in the book of Revelations. I can assure them no more motivational read can be found under heaven, or on earth.
Thanks again, Virginia.
Rouchelle
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Aug 02 '01
1:51 pm PDT
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Re: a+model+for+E-Prime! (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
Thank you, Jan. When I feel passionately toward a subject as I obviously do toward self-help materials, I find myself with an uncontrollable urge to orate. This time, after fatefully stumbling upon the Epinions' topic on Self-Help Books a month or so ago, my oration evolved into the written word, rather than the spoken. So pleased I could provoke thought with my effort.
Now, on to my opinion (and, you do understand this to be just that, my opinion, since I had not given his works in-depth consideration enough to be anything other than) of Dr. Rollo May. Most of the late Dr. May's books can be categorized as inspirational, I think. It seems apparent, to me, that Dr. May writes from declarative tenets on subjects to which he's given extensive thought, as well as from his personal experiences, thoughts, observations, ruminations and conclusions drawn from each. Although these books were not, most likely, intended as inspirational, his ability to make his readers "see" the potential for personal, inner growth, oft times can have tremendous power to incite one.
Based on those works I've browsed, he impresses me to have been just the type psychologist I, myself, would have wished to have become, had I pursued my early degree plan in undergrad school. He most definitely appeared to have been thoroughly aware of the creative facet of his own personality. We creative personae are, typically, more openly appreciative of the things of nature which surround us, aren't we? That explains your personal ability to pen a fabulous poem (btw, your poem written for E-Prime was inspired, without a doubt).
Anyway, Jan (you really shouldn't have gotten me started. Regret it now, I'll bet!), to make a long story a little shorter (too late, I'm afraid :), yes, for many, Dr. May's books will inspire. Therefore, on that note, I'll conclude that the books of Dr. May are Inspirational or Motivational in their ability to stimulate and stir the emotions to create, think or act. They are definitely not of what we call the "self-help" genre. In fact, I can actually envision myself writing these type books, one day, where I'd never even jokingly consider writing a "self-help" one.
Thanks, much for the comment and your compliments. Your comment appears to have been, at the very least, as thought-provoking as was my review! lol ~~We must continue this conversation at some other time in the future. I really enjoyed the stimulation. BTW, didn't find your review you referenced here on THE CRY FOR MYTH (if you'd let me know where, exactly, I could find it, I'd like to read it). However, did remember the one you did back in June (I believe) on his MY QUEST FOR BEAUTY; your review on that one was truly moving, IMHO.
Oh, and on that poem, wonder no more. Great job, appropriately and excellently-written and in E-Prime, no less! [Looks like the cream rose to the top with this little "exercise" courtesy of proeditor, huh?]
Rouchelle
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Aug 02 '01
1:34 pm PDT
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a model for E-Prime! (Reply to this comment)
by jankp
I found this very thought-provoking. What would you consider psychological books like by Dr. Rollo May? I posted my review of THE CRY FOR MYTH under this topic and then wrote an essay showing how it can help. Very curious about your answer. I wouldn't consider him inspirational.
Also many thanks for your wonderful comments on my entry, especially my poem. I've been going crazy wondering what people thought of it!
Jan
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Aug 02 '01
10:59 am PDT
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Positive and - (Reply to this comment)
by Granniemose
BRILLIANT, SPARKLING, RADIANT AND EXTREMELY INTELLIGENT. I think Norman Vincent Peal's book does a lot to inspire, and of course The Holy Bible is the most inspirational of all. You are such a good writer - we are all lucky to be able to read your work on Epinions.
Virginia
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Aug 02 '01
5:36 am PDT
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Re: What+a+tremendous+display+of+courage... (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
That's me, Pam... Ms Courageous :)
Thanks, for the read and the comments. Oh, and of course, the compliments. lol
Rouchelle
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Aug 01 '01
8:18 pm PDT
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Re: Excellent+review..... (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
Thanks, Mike. Did challenge us, didn't it? But, I did (surprisingly) enjoy doing it.
Rouchelle
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Aug 01 '01
8:16 pm PDT
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Re: My,+my,+what+an+interesting+essay! (Reply to this comment)
by LEDOMAINE
Thankyouverymuch. This, as you can probably tell, just happens to rank quite high on my "irritating issues list." Made it easier for me to write on it for the W/O, a terrific challenge, btw. Thanks, again for hosting it.
Rouchelle
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Aug 01 '01
8:14 pm PDT
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What a tremendous display of courage... (Reply to this comment)
by diverpam
tackling E-Prime on such a lengthy review!
Nice job.
Pam
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Aug 01 '01
5:31 pm PDT
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Excellent review..... (Reply to this comment)
by mike24
and this w/o was as much fun as it was
challenging. Scared the daylights out
of me too !
Thanks
mike24
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Aug 01 '01
5:23 pm PDT
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My, my, what an interesting essay! (Reply to this comment)
by proeditor
Well written too! I'm glad you enjoyed trying your hand at E-Prime; thanks for participating in the write-off.
I agree with your thoughts wholeheartedly. We've been mindful of teaching our daughter (now 14) that inspiration, motivation and happiness come from within. I never thought of the fact that self-help books do the opposite -- I've never been a big fan of them anyway.
Thanks again,
Karen
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Aug 01 '01
4:31 pm PDT
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