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Nice review (Reply to this comment)
by nscanuck
I saw myself under the abstainer category and actually laughed a little when you mentioned the hole pondering the greater meaning of life and human nature. That's just an excuse to stay in your room and play video games.
nscanuck :)
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Feb 02 '02
12:37 pm PST
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Re: You need more information (Reply to this comment)
by Bryan_Carey
I didn't say that all alcoholics crave alcohol because of something their parents have done. I never said anything of the kind! Perfectly functional families have produced alcoholics, also. What I'm talking about in my editorial is a subset of alcoholics; namely those whose parents indirectly (and unknowingly) encouraged their kids to develop an interest in alcohol because of the parent's constant and persistent villianization of booze. When this type of person finally gets out of the house, and goes to college, they often run wild because the parents have made alcohol into a forbidden fruit by their branding of alcohol as "evil". The young student's curiousity gets the best of him/her. They give it a try, and realize that much of what the parents have told them is complete hogwash, and so they rebel and take drinking to extremes. I've seen it happen many, many times!
I never once said that all alcoholics come from families with overly conservative parents. I only said that some alcoholics develop the disease from the misinformed and often outrageous beliefs of parents.
Your understanding of my article is grossly misinformed.
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Jan 20 '02
11:09 am PST
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Re: Re: All in all.. (Reply to this comment)
by lisaffire
Thanks for the reply.
My only additional comment is about underage drinking. I think what you mentioned about underage with parents is okay varies from state to state. In PA, underage is underage and that's that. Course in PA you have to go to two separate stores (beer distributors and State Stores for the hard stuff) and there's no way you can pick up a six pack in a convenience store, like you can in some states. In NY, you can get whatever you like in grocery stores... PA still has some old time 'blue' laws in effect... sh!t, you can't even buy/sell a car on a Sunday if you wanted to! LOL
The laws do set us up for failure and believe me, it's unfair as all get out to tell an 18 year old he's old enough to die for his country, but he can't raise a glass to toast by. And I think this country learned plenty by the 13 years of prohibition to have come to the laws they did come to. We're dealing with a Puritan backbone of legal ideology. We're lucky we can pick our noses without getting arrested... ummmm.. right? :)
I didn't rush off to college straight out of school, but the 'war' stories I got back from my classmates who did all told of stories of drunken orgies and wild times, they also reported that perhaps I made the wiser decision as they weren't really doing much with their lives anyway.. ~*~shrug~*~ to each their own... I've also known kids who were so intimidated by the party atmosphere of a college (my niece was one) that they transferred back towards home and went to a college they could commute to rather than reside at to escape the party pressure.
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Dec 19 '01
10:03 am PST
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You need more information (Reply to this comment)
by CreamChief
People do not crave alcohol because of anything that their parents have done. Alcoholics crave alcohol because they have a physical allergy that sets off a physical craving.
Yes, it is true that alcoholics often have much deeper problems than the alcohol that they consume; that is part of the mental obsession. Beyond that, however, your understanding of the problem is terribly misinformed. Alcoholism strikes people who come from completely functional families and upbringings as well as those who came from broken homes. Please do us all a favor and learn more about this powerful disease rather than perpetuating your own misunderstandings.
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Dec 16 '01
9:33 pm PST
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Re: All in all.. (Reply to this comment)
by Bryan_Carey
A few points to make:
First of all, I didn't mean to take alcoholism lightly. There are some people who have serious problems. Not just college age adults, but older adults, too. I only said that the majority of students do not have a problem, which is true. Those who do have problems stand out in the crowd, because they are very visible. Everyone knows them, and everyone talks about them.
No, everyone who is an alcoholic is not violent. The students who are forced to drop out of school, due to their binge drinking causing low grades, are not the violent types at all. They are usually very easy- going, and some are even able to hide their alcoholism from others, making their departure from school a surprise to the people around them.
Last of all, I need to address the point that you made about parents and their influence on their kid's drinking. In my editorial, the type of parent that I was referring to isn't the type who calmly tells their kids to avoid drinking. I'm talking about the type who tries to brainwash their kids into believing all sorts of crazy, wacko things about alcohol, with the hope of invoking so much fear in the child that they are afraid to drink. When this type of person gets to college, and can plainly see that alcohol doesn't do the things that mom and dad said it would, they often rebel and drink like fish. I've seen this happen many, many times!
Also, it isn't illegal for underage people to drink, as long as the parent approves it, and is present. But, we also have to be realistic here. No one is actually stupid enough to refrain from a consensual activity because a law says they cannot partake (what if a law was passed that made sex illegal until, say, age 25. Would people stop having sex? Get real!).In fact,these laws often have the opposite effect. They make people want to drink because they place alcohol on a pedestal. An eighteen year old can own property and get married, but he/she can't buy a bottle of beer? What kind of twisted message does that send to people? It says that alcohol consumption is a greater priveledge and a greater responsibility than owning property, getting married, having kids, etc. In nations where there is no drinking age,they do not have nearly the problems that we do in the United States, primarily because they don't make such a big deal out of it. Alcohol is just a beverage to the people in these other countries. In the United States, alcohol isn't just a beverage- drinking is a rite of passage. Our laws have made it this way.
It's no wonder that young people get out of control, when they are finally "allowed" to drink. What if they raised the drinking age to, say, 30? Would people in their 20's stop drinking because the law says so? I don't think so, and they shouldn't. Many laws are unethical and unjust. I'm not saying that we should openly rebel and break them all the time, but we shouldn't sit by passively and accept anything that our lawmakers hand down to us. We should work to change these bad, consensual crime laws. They do not solve any problems at all, and they often make the problems even worse.
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Dec 14 '01
7:18 am PST
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All in all.. (Reply to this comment)
by lisaffire
..a well written editorial, however, the plight of alcoholism in all sectors of society is a problem, even if it isn't the majority of people... and not one to be taken lightly, which is how your review was perceived to be by me anyway.
Your comment also about parents not having valid reasons or excuses to keep their kids from alcohol DO have a very valid reason, and that it is ILLEGAL until they are 21 (in most states)... and there are laws designed to punish legal aged drinkers from serving alcohol to those under the age limit. Once they're 21, yeah, most young adults go nuts and try all sorts of stuff and find it's either something they really don't like (abstainers), something they like but not all the time (social drinkers) or they find that they can't get through the day without it (alcoholics). But kids start college at age 18 {on average) which leaves ~3 years of college life before it's legal for them to drink.
One last note, I was left with the impression of your review that alcoholics are violent without their fix. You did such a wonderful job of breaking down the types of drinkers, perhaps a breakdown of the types of alcoholics as well would have been a remedy for that stereotype. Sometimes it's not so easy to diagnose someone and it's usually not up to us anyway... even if they have a problem they have to want to change for recovery to be successful. I've had my problems with alcohol and watch my dad suffer with the addiction as well, as he rots his body. I've been married to an alcoholic and been to enough AA meetings to know that the majority of alcoholics are not violent and usually learn to get through the "dry" spell times with a little ingenuity (stocking up, hiding it) and that there are all kinds of "drunks"... some get irked if they're "forced" to go to say a diner that doesn't serve and will head to their bottle first chance they get, but getting violent without, isn't the majority... from what I've experienced anyway.
Yup, fact is that college is filled with many societal landmines as is life when one is faced with adult decisions for, perhaps, the first time.
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Dec 08 '01
2:40 pm PST
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Excellent! (Reply to this comment)
by starcrossedkat
I love how you were very realistic regarding alcohol. Yes, kids drink. Yes, underage kids drink. Yes, I drink and I'm not 21 but I do drink. For me, it's a social thing and I know my limit...my body is very good at telling me so. :)
I agree that alcohol abuse is thought to be more prevalent than it really is. I see it (and this is not drawing on a stereotype) in large part within the Greek system. But there are several members (in fact a lot) who circulate parties concerned for those who have had too much to drink. And friends usually take care of friends.
But I ramble on....anyway, I took interest in your editoral especially on such a sensitive subject for some people. Nice job.
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Dec 06 '01
10:55 am PST
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It is actually very simple... (Reply to this comment)
by vonboob
...if you find that a student drinks a few days before finals -now there is a problem!
Nice article and hmmm, cheers?
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Dec 06 '01
9:23 am PST
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Re: Editorial or . . . (Reply to this comment)
by Bryan_Carey
I never said that alcohol abuse wasn't a problem. I didn't say that at all.
What I said is that it's a problem for some and not for others, which is very true! The majority do not have any problems at all. Those who do have problems often have them to a very serious degree, like I pointed out in editorial.
Your degree of comprehension is beyond the absurd.
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Dec 06 '01
7:06 am PST
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hm... (Reply to this comment)
by lernerj
well, as usual, I disagree with just about everything you said here. :) Still, well-expressed as always.
jennifer
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Dec 06 '01
6:46 am PST
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Actually.. (Reply to this comment)
by jay1051971
I used to get drunk and "ponder the deeper meanings of the universe and mankind's existence." It made it fun that way....
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Dec 05 '01
3:10 pm PST
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Editorial or . . . (Reply to this comment)
by macresarf1
Dear Bryan: I found this piece a bit of an oxymoron. To question whether or not alcohol, especially among the young, is a problem, borders on the absurd.
Of course, it's a problem!
And to warmly dismiss the insidious nature of alcoholism begs the fact that, at 18 (or nine or ten now), a young person cannot predict the immediate consequences, or the future course of his/her harmless fun.
[Macresarf1]
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Dec 05 '01
12:59 pm PST
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... (Reply to this comment)
by xiphoid
Wow, great editorial!
I'm an abstainer, seeing as I've never even been drunk. I don't understand keg parties, nor have I ever understood raves or house parties...I just don't get it.
I'm not really quiet though, nor do I keep to myself. Closer to the opposite. Which is probably why people are so surprised to hear I don't drink.
Although, they're surprised anyway, since I can say that 80% of my friends were drunk in college, when they had the chance to be.
Well, I've observed alcohol in its worst context...at home, and with friends (holding peoples heads over toilets, carrying them to bed, checking to see if they're dying, etc...) and that has impacted me tremendously on the drug and alcohol front...
I think I have a lot to say on this subject, and you've inspired me to eventually write up an editorial on the subject. Again, I really found this to be a great read!
xoxo
Robin
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Dec 05 '01
9:38 am PST
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Reformed binge drinker... (Reply to this comment)
by lambchops
Thanks for a great opinion. I was a binge drinker...until I turned 21 and ended up in the hospital. Now, I have a total of about 4 drinks a month. Alas, after that experience four years ago things aren't so vodka-soaked.
Thanks for an astute and intelligent opinion.
Shelly.
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Dec 05 '01
9:15 am PST
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:) (Reply to this comment)
by Kittyokc
Nice editorial Bryan! You make a lot of valid observations and points in this and I love how you broke down the types of drinkers. Great job, as usual. :)
Kathy
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Dec 05 '01
9:13 am PST
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