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Re: These laws are patently unconstitutional! (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru,  in Restaurants & Gourmet
I agree. Sunday sales are being debated here in Georgia again, and it is the Christian right that is arguing against lifting the ban. I just don't get that. I have nothing against church-going, and if you don't want to drink on Sunday that's fine. Just don't force your beliefs down everyone else's throats.
Banning alcohol sales on the Christian sabbath is a clear cut case of the state supporting one religion over another. It's that simple.
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Feb 20 '07
4:17 am PST
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These laws are patently unconstitutional! (Reply to this comment)
by belchy
It escapes me completely why these laws still exist. There can be no argument that they are intended to further the establishment of religion, in direct contravention of the Constitution. Any why no one has challenged them is even harder to grasp. Some legislator should just stand up and say we can no longer permit this obvious disregard for the Constitution to continue.
I come from New York, where, after many years, enlightenment finally happened, and and now we can buy beer and wind and liquor on Sundays. About time.
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Jan 14 '07
2:03 pm PST
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Re: Re: oh my... (Reply to this comment)
by djw-nyc
First, it's *not* unconstitutional to restrict alcohol sales and consumption on Sundays, or any other day. What initially was a religious impetus for eliminating Sunday sales is now simply on the books for no particular reason. You'd be hard-pressed to make a case that such laws are unconstitutional. It could as easily be argued that the laws were on the books because way back when the laws were enacted, alcohol was only sold through mom & pops and, well, mom & pop wanted a day off.
Still, if a big distributor of "gourmet" beers wanted to step up to the plate and import bigger beers, get caught, and argue to the state alcohol control board that the laws were unfair and restricted free trade, then maybe they could get a spotlight on the issue. But the big distros don't care, for obvious reasons. And the little ones don't have the money to fight this battle.
Sure, everyone knows why the laws exist, but there's nothing specifically religious about them. "God" didn't say "thou shalt not buy alcohol on Sunday [before noon]." So the argument can't use that framework.
Dry counties are another non-unconstitutional byproduct of bygone days. Generally, these things come up for a vote (much like lotteries) frequently, and the people of the locality vote it down. If the majority are so easily convinced by the fearmongers that allowing alcohol sales at all will lead to wanton drunkenness, juvenile DWIs, cats sleeping with dogs, whatever, then the vote for lifting restrictions will fail. And though the locality will lose revenues, it will feel morally superior for whatever reason. Generation gap, sure, and a failure to move into the 20th (yes) century, but the old folks and the Bible-thumpers don't necessarily make the most logical decisions.
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Mar 14 '03
12:14 pm PST
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Another baffling law (Reply to this comment)
by AliventiAsylum
that I cam across at a young age is in New Hampshire you can't be served an alcoholic drink unless you are sitting down.
When I was in my early 20's up there during the summer I'd come across all of these bars with barstools around boards fastened between two poles in the establishments.
It just boggles the mind what these lawmakers were thinking when they enacted these laws...
Patti
(who's father in law manages a liquor store in Florida)
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Mar 08 '03
5:21 am PST
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Re: Government Insanity! (Reply to this comment)
by jay1051971
Amen!
Excellent commentary!
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Mar 07 '03
3:32 pm PST
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Re: Hmm, hasn't bothered me since I was 17. (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for your comment!
Hey, I keep enough beer in my house too. But that's not the point. If I run out of Ben and Jerry's on Sunday, I can certainly run to the store and get some. Why not beer?
Sure, we can get around the stupid law, but its still a stupid law. There's just no logical reason to prohibit alcohol sales on Sunday. None.
Cheers!
John
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Mar 07 '03
10:27 am PST
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Re: oh my... (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for the comment!
Dry counties are a pet peeve of mine. We have one across the line from Rome in Alabama, and anybody who lives there just comes here for their beer, wine, or spirits. Alcoholic beverages are legal, and a small minority who oppose them should not be allowed to impose their views on others.
Cheers!
John
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Mar 07 '03
10:23 am PST
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Re: The laws are certainly strange ... (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for the comment!
And thanks for helping out. Every letter and e-mail helps!
Cheers,
John
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Mar 07 '03
10:21 am PST
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Re: Hmm, hasn't bothered me since I was 17. (Reply to this comment)
by MobGirl
I have to agree with this comment. While the laws on the books may be somewhat outdated, an adult can certainly plan ahead. Like if you live in Rhode Island, and the big game is on Sunday, then you visit the liquor store on Saturday and get what you need. If you drink it all before the big game party gets underway - well then perhaps you have a problem either with drinking or planning for the right amount for parties.
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Mar 07 '03
9:42 am PST
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Re: Never understood (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for your comment!
Sunday sales are something that needs to be addressed too. Here in Rome where I live (for another two weeks anyway), you can't even buy a drink at a restaurant on Sunday. When the Braves wanted the county to build a stadium here, though, they insisted on being allowed Sunday beer sales. Of course, the county gave it to them.
The restaurants still don't have it.
Beer laws can be hypocritical too.
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Mar 07 '03
9:32 am PST
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Re: recent news... (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Tom, thanks for the comment. I had heard that a group was challenging one state's law on the matter, claiming it was a violation of the right of interstate commerce. Only the US congress can regulate such trade.
Cheers!
John
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Mar 07 '03
9:26 am PST
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Re: We have the same stupid law in NC (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for your comment!
Are there any grass roots movements in North Carolina to get the law changed there? Laws can be changed, Mississippi recently became the final state to legalize brewpubs. I suspect that eventually, all of the laws limiting beer strength will go out the window too.
Cheers!
John
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Mar 07 '03
8:17 am PST
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Government Insanity! (Reply to this comment)
by Bryan_Carey
Beer laws are among the many crazy, illogical laws that our wonderful government officials enact year after year. I have been fighting these restrictive beer laws for a long time now. Like you stated, many of them are, in fact, UNCONSTITUTIONAL! The "no Sunday sales" law is the best example of that, but there are others, too.
Here in Ohio, we scored a victory last October when the state legislature overturned Ohio's old alcohol limitation law. This crazy law stated that beer could not be stronger than 7.5% alcohol by volume, even though it was perfectly legal to buy rum that was up to ten times stronger, containing 75% alcohol (explain the logic in that!). This meant, of course, that barleywine, most imperial stouts, and other stronger styles were illegal in Ohio. Now, with the repeal of this law, the shelves are overflowing with new products to try.
All that you can do with these types of laws is work for change. With enough effort and grassroots support, you can convince the lawmakers that these rules run contrary to the constitution and, in many cases, they are just plan nuts!
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Mar 07 '03
7:53 am PST
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Re: The laws are certainly strange ... (Reply to this comment)
by CPUENGR
I forgot about people needing to be 18 to handle alcohol. I always wondered what the harm was of some 17-year-old running a six pack of Guinness across the scanner at Wal-mart. Perhaps 17-year-olds have the ability to consume alcohol through osmosis? Who knows...
Josh
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Mar 07 '03
6:54 am PST
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Hmm, hasn't bothered me since I was 17. (Reply to this comment)
by sarahalm
Does it really worry people that they can't get beer after 8pm (that's the rule you mentioned for my home state of CT)? Or on Sundays? Now, I remember being 17 and sending a scouting team all the way to New Hampshire for beer on a Sunday, but that was then. This is now. I usually have plenty of booze in my house to get me through a weekend -- even a really interesting weekend. And you can still go to a bar to drink. So what's the big deal about the "blue laws"? I mean, who really cares?
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Mar 07 '03
6:14 am PST
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oh my... (Reply to this comment)
by emptywishes
When I was like 15 or so, I went to Kentucky to visit some relatives that lived there. They live in a "dry county," which means you can't sell alcohol anywhere there, in bars or in stores. You have to drive to the next county to get it. This made for an awful lot of moonshiners in the area.
Plus, when I was there, there was a big bust on a moose lodge who got busted for selling booze. They were arguing that they weren't selling the beer, but just selling the cups to put it in! I left long before the judge ruled on it, so I have no idea how it turned out... what a shame.
Kim
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Mar 06 '03
11:11 pm PST
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The laws are certainly strange ... (Reply to this comment)
by elainehn
In my early college years, I worked at Pizza Hut and had out-of-towners all but call me a liar when I wouldn't sell them beer on Sunday. And of course on days we could sell beer, as a 17 year old, I couldn't deliver it to the table! I had to ask an older employee to carry it out for me. Made me feel like a fool.
And then there's the time a few years ago, when a fellow from Michigan took a job and moved down here. Months later I found out that after I told him this is a 'dry' county (which to me means there are no liquor stores) ... he loaded his entire trunk with cases of beer! When he found out you could buy beer at every convenience store, grocery store, and gas station in town (and liquor a few miles down the road in the next county) he was mad as could be!
Oh well ... live and learn ... and I'll check out the links you provided!
Elaine
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Mar 06 '03
2:17 pm PST
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Never understood (Reply to this comment)
by CPUENGR
I've never understood why alcohol sales were restricted or prohibited on Sundays, but not other Sabbaths. Until 1994, here in Missouri, alcohol sales were prohibited on Sundays...they are now allowed after 11:00AM (still a restriction compared to 6:00AM all other days).
BeerLover, good point. Why restrict a gourmet 7.5% beer when ethanol is still available?
Good luck getting things changed,
Josh
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Mar 06 '03
12:50 pm PST
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recent news... (Reply to this comment)
by 4-1-1
in California: Kenneth Starr (the prosecutor investigating Pres. Clinton) will be working with winemakers in California to lobby for changes in interstate mailing laws. Congrats on #750!
Tom.
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Mar 06 '03
12:41 pm PST
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Re: Licensing Laws (Reply to this comment)
by proxam
Kate,
Scotland has more liberal licensing laws than England now, but until 1976, it was almost impossible to buy alcohol on a Sunday ANYWHERE. Some hotels could sell it, but not all. Pubs could only open from 11am-2.30pm and 5-10 pm, Mon-Sat, and very few shops were allowed to sell it.
Drew
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Mar 06 '03
12:07 pm PST
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We have the same stupid law in NC (Reply to this comment)
by lpteague
that no beer can have > 6%ABV. I wondered for the longest time why I could never find the Samuel Adams Doppelbock! Good review.
Cheers!
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Mar 06 '03
11:16 am PST
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Re: Yes yes (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for your comment! Even the strongest of beers is generally lower in alcohol content than almost any brand of spirits. Most beer styles that the law prohibits, like doppelbocks, barleywines, and imperial stouts are still lower in alcohol than many wines.
Cheers!
John
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Mar 06 '03
9:21 am PST
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Re: Licensing Laws (Reply to this comment)
by Bruguru, in Restaurants & Gourmet
Thanks for the comment, Kate. One of the crazy things about the hodgepodge of beer laws each state has is that you can often escape them by driving to another state. The result: the state with the crazy law loses tax revenue, and the consumer still gets what he wants although he has to work for it.
Makes no sense to me.
Cheers!
John
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Mar 06 '03
9:18 am PST
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Licensing Laws (Reply to this comment)
by mattygroves
...are crazy in many places, but Pennsylvania must take the cake. You can only buy wine (except for locally produced wine) and liquor in 'State Stores', which have limited stock and are overpriced - my mother, who lives in the Philly area, just pops across to NJ to buy gin et al, as a rule.
I don't know if this is still true, but when I was growing up in NY, you couldn't buy beer before 12.00 on Sundays...which baffled me.
Here in the UK, you can't buy booze before noon on Sundays. Well...you can't go into a pub anyway (in England) - in England, pubs need to apply for a license each time they wish to stay open past 11.00pm (for example for a function). Until a few years ago, pubs in England had to shut in the middle of the day (not in Scotland - they've always had a more enlightened view).
Here in England, supermarkets are only allowed to stay open on a Sunday for a limited number of hours - six hours, I believe. Again, until quite recently, they weren't allowed to open at ALL on Sundays.
Having said all that, although the UK is a multi-cultural and multi-religous society, it still has an established church.
I'm rambling. But it was fun!
Cheers,
Kate
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Mar 06 '03
9:08 am PST
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Yes yes (Reply to this comment)
by AVaddict
I enjoyed reading your article and it makes some very good points, especially with the ref to Chimay vs the MD for the kiddies that want to booze it. Whether or not that happens is up to the retailers and how stringent they choose to be about who they sell alcohol to.
Another excellent point is the nomenclature neccesary to make this happen. The gourmet suggestion is certainly the way to go. There are too many legislators who know just as much about spin as any major corporation when it comes to public image and tossing around verbage like strong or high alcohol makes it seem as if the bottle of McNally's I just opened would have the same effect as if it were straight vodka.
Anyway, great writing, I agree 100%
-the addict
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Mar 06 '03
8:53 am PST
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