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Member Advice Summary
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brad's Experience - Mac versus Windows
by brad | May 07 '03
The Mac is a great-system for-the most common of computing applications. For power-users and those who like-to multi-task, Windows wins hands-down. In-general, though, the Mac seems to-be more user-friendly.
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Mac vs Windows (Reply to this comment)
by kbrizing
Been using Windows O/S for long time and currently training for Microsoft Office Specialist (MOS) certification. Need new computer to work on @ home and am looking to run Office 2003 because that's what's being taught at the school. That means I need Word (2003), Excel, Powerpoint, Outlook & Access.
My employer got me Office 2007 but the "ribbon" interface that replaces the toolbars & menus from previous versions of Office seem cumbersome, particularly when trying to keep up w/the courseware running Word 2003. Haven't actually used 2007 yet, but is it really as drastically different to use as it seems?
With a budget of $600-800, I looked at Dell desktops (cost, bundles), HP, Gateway, Compaq, Acer (& even eMachines) as well as putting together my own configuration.
Basically require Windows XP (good or bad for my use?), 120MB HD (minimum), 3.3GHz (dual core) processor and 1GB DDR2 SDRAM. I also wanna hook up some decent speakers & sub-woofer (for my synthesizer), a CD/RW-DVD combo drive (w/burning capability), along w/some graphics (PaintShop Pro X ?), financial (QuickBooks, TaxCut ?), personal finance and legal (Legal Point ?) applications.
(Suggestions or warnings about software? I heard TurboTax is crap, for example - Photoshop is too expensive, etc.)
Almost all the new Windows desktops I see are running VISTA, which I don't really want due to newness of platform, no office suite loaded, and massive memory requirements (1-2GB RAM, 20-30GM HD space(wow!)).
Then last night while shopping I got the iMac demo and was pretty much blown away by the power, versatility & seeming ease of use. I also want to run some graphics apps and run my MIDI keyboard thru this system. The "garage band" feature really is powerful for me, as well as the template formats (w/pre-loaded formulas) to rival the Excel functions. The media capabilities are awesome, too.
Then I was told you can (supposedly) run the Windows platform as well and almost lost all interest in a Windows-based desktop system.
Why buy that (fairly)limited setup, when for a few hundred dollars more I can get vastly more function for my applications, security and still run the Windows platform as well? I'm not really worried about a little longer boot-up time or a few seconds wait between websites online.
Are my understandings correct? Other Pros & Cons?
A little clarity in the muddle, please (man, my head's beginning to hurt...)
KB
Oakland, CA
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Mar 08 '07
10:25 am PST
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Re: yes but... (Reply to this comment)
by lawman67
You can alt-tab on the Mac, in fact, that particular feature has been on the Mac since OS 8 and was copied by MIcrosoft from Apple.
The dock also can be set to always visible, and active appllications and documents are instantly brought to the front just by clicking them, exactly like the Windows taskbar which this time Apple copied from Microsoft.
Both Apple and Microsoft have copied each other's interface elements for so many years that much more is common than different. It just takes getting used to.
I made the switch myself last month after one too many virus, and after just one month, I'm just as comofortable on my PowerBook was I was on my ThinkPad.
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Mar 23 '04
9:11 am PST
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Professional Dissection of Problem (Reply to this comment)
by hamzalam
I have been looking for a comparison of Mac and Windows, and this was the first review of the problem that did not resort to name-calling and other unprofessional behavior. This is why I did not pay much attention to them. To this, I did pay attention. I am not a Mac user but got a chance to work on them at my community college. The transition was very difficult early on, and I was always looking for an unused Windows machine every time I had to go to the lab. But after sometime I got used to the "feel" of a Mac. This, however, does not mean that I began to think of a Mac better than Windows. After this review, I plan to use Macs soon. Sooner than I had ever planned.
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Feb 09 '04
8:57 pm PST
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Re: Re: yes but... (Reply to this comment)
by jetaero
Thanks for the clarification. It sounds like this method could have its good and bad sides, but I can't judge it one way or the other without trying it out extensively.
On the topic of the Dock, while I love its appearance and the aesthetic and practical benefits of its animated features, I have read conflicting opinions about its relative merits compared to the Windows Taskbar.
In fact, some of the negatives have been from Mac power users. Ironically, this sort of opinion is both highly credible (the author knows what he's talking about and is not a Mac-basher), and suspect (the author may be enamored with the OS9 way of doing things and may not have given OSX's new features his maximum attention.)
Anyway, at macosxhints.com, there is a PDF file available called Mac OS-X Solutions Guidebook, with a bunch of OSX hints and tips. In that document, the author has heavily modified and augmented his OS-X environment, reying on a third party dock called DragThing for organizing and accessing applications, while relegating the OS-X dock exclusively for open apps and windows.
While it's always niec to know that there are workarounds to things you may not like, I find it a bit troubling that this Mac pro doesn't find the Dock practical or useful as an application launcher. Worse yet, as someone used to using a combination of the Windows Start button and the QuickLaunch bar on the TaskBar for application launching, I think I see his point.
I keep 15-20 commonly used apps on my QuickLaunch bar, while relying on a neatly re-organized Start Menu for access to all others, organized by type and name.
Any comments on this?
Also, can you suggest a place online where I can discuss the pros and cons of a Mac with people who are very familiar with the details, but where such discussions are welcomed and not cause for World War III?
I have many questions, concerns, and comments but I am having a very hard time finding a suitable place for discussing them.
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Jun 19 '03
1:15 pm PDT
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Re: yes but... (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
Certainly!
Microsoft and Apple are definitely not shy about "borrowing" ideas on user interface from each other. It has been happening for decades now.
Alt-Tab... one of the most familiar windows shortcuts. Good news! It is almost exactly the same shortcut in Mac OS X.
Instead of Alt, it is Command-Tab. The command key on a Mac is exactly where the Alt key is on a Windows keyboard.
Command-Tab will cycle through all running applications, highlighting them on the Dock.. Shift-Command-Tab will cycle backward.
The Dock functions similarly to the Windows taskbar. All applications that are currently running have a visible black triangle underneath their icon.
Now, this is not exactly the same behavior as on Windows. In windows, Alt-tab cycles between all windows, not just applications.
Instead, on a Mac, we have a stronger distinction between applications and windows. Command - Tab cycles between applications, while Command - ~ (the key conveniently above Tab) cycles between the windows of the frontmost application.
I think in many ways, its stronger than Alt-tabbing in Windows, as there is a level of higher control between open applications and windows of the front application.
I hope i can help!
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Jun 15 '03
7:01 pm PDT
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yes but... (Reply to this comment)
by jetaero
I understand that OSX is a multitasking environment (finally, after lagging behind Windows for years) but the methods you described for what I will call "task switching" are far from appealing.
In Windows I can glance at the Taskbar and instantly see and click on any open application or document. I can also tap Alt-Tab to quickly switch fromt he current application window to the previous one - or I can hold down Alt while tapping Tab to view and cucle through a pop up list of all open apps/windows and select the one I want instantly.
I'm certainly no OSX expert, so please let me know if it has the same functionality and conveniencethrough some other method you didn't mention previously.
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Jun 14 '03
3:06 pm PDT
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Dante's four levels of computer hell... (Reply to this comment)
by jetaero
I've been in the same position for the last 15 years: I want a Mac, but the pros and cons always seem to overwhelmingly favor a Windows PC, and that's what I always end up with. It's strange. Seems like every 6 months or so I get "fed up" with Microsoft and Windows and my ugly, crash-prone Dell computer and all the buggy, poorly designed peripherals - so I start reading up on the latest from the folks at Apple. And then I go to the local store and play with the pretty and friendly Apple computers for a while. The cycle is always the same...
Stage 1, that dopey smile on my face as I admire the Macs' beautiful and high quality design, and the elegance and simplicity of their software. Why, this stuff is decades ahead of anything in the PC department. It's as if I've stepped into another world, or perhaps some alternate universe where Microsoft's mediocrity and sloppiness never took hold. Man, what have I been waiting for?
Stage 2, sticker shock starts to sink in, as I notice that the cheapest, non-upgradeable iMacs cost as much as a full featured Dell tower system, while a G4 tower system costs as much as a used car. Damn, those monitors are expensive. And although that crystalline mouse is a sight to behold, there's no way I'm going to sacrifice a second mouse button and a scroll wheel, so I guess it's another $30-50 for a decent (if less than museum quality) replacement. And come to think of it, that optional, $200, translucent and jellyfish-like Harmon Kardon speaker system seems like a must-have, considering the base system doesn't include decent speakers and it would be sacrilege to pair up a work of art with beige and black plastic PC speakers from Circuit City.
Stage 3, I remind myself of the reason I'm there - my dissatisfaction with the low quality, ugly design, and poor reliability of Windows PCs - the free spirit and inner artist in me yearning to be fulfilled. So I tell myself, "Hey, maybe a Mac is just worth spending a little extra money on. You get what you pay for!" What's a few extra bucks for something I'm going to be so much happier with?
Stage 4, uh oh... my daydream grows fuzzy as it starts to dawn on me that I can only use that Mac's GeForce4 video system to play Solitaire because Half-Life, Jedi Knight II, Wolfenstein, Medal of Honor, and every other decent game on the planet is not available on the Mac platform. Oh my... And speaking of software, Dell throws in a copy of MS Office for about $100 (and I already own two or three copies of it anyway), but a Mac version is, gulp!, $500??! And wait a minute... just how, exactly, am I going to pay for Mac versions of all my current, must-have software titles like Photoshop, Illustrator, LiveMotion, GoLive, and others? Well, maybe I could... HEY, there's no Kazaa on the Mac either?! Oh no, I'm back in Microsoft HELL!!!
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Jun 14 '03
2:59 pm PDT
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Intriguing review (Reply to this comment)
by iBen
I enjoyed your review alot because it brings up alot of issues that PC to Mac switchers would run into.
However, as a Mac veteran and a pro user, I have to play a little bit of devil's advocate with a few points on your review.
I think i definitely disagree with you about your points on Windows being for power-users... but I think some clarification needs to be made, strictly on terminology.
You used the term "multi-tasking" to describe the way the Mac or the PC handled different things you were working on at the same time... Talking on AIM, Yahoo games, iTunes... and you made a comment on how the Windows taskbar lets you handle that better than the Mac OS X dock...
When i hear the term "multi-tasking" i don't think of it in the same context as you. From an operating system and concurrency standpoint (i'm a Computer Science major if you haven't figured it out yet :) ) multitasking really means the OS handling different threads internally. You've got certain processes going on on your computer at once. When you're playing an mp3 in iTunes and surfing the web at the same time, the operating system has to figure out a way to share the CPU's processing time between the two things... Its very important that the OS manages these processes fairly and efficiently... if iTunes wasn't given enough processor time to play back your mp3, the result would be your music skipping... So this type of multitasking goes on at a very technical level of the operating system.
What's the bottom line for the user? A good multitasking operating system is one that can run alot of stuff simultaneously... For example, on your Mac, if you start running a whole bunch of applications (assuming you have loads of RAM) you will notice that other applications running in the background do not really affect the speed at which another application works. In addition, this is vital for video playback and creation with iMovie.
Mac OS X is a very advanced operating system underneath the interface. It is based on a UNIX variant called BSD which affords it great stability and true preemptive multitasking. Mac OS X can handle lots of applications open at once, with video and audio playing, and not skip a beat. Windows XP is not based on UNIX, but also has preemptive multitasking. Windows XP was built on Microsoft's own stable multitasking core called NT. Arguably, its as stable and as good as multitasking as Mac OS X... in practice, i've seen stability to be less than Mac OS X.
The moral of the story is that Mac OS X is a stable multitasking OS, like any good modern OS .
Now, back to what you were talking about with the Dock and the Windows taskbar. I think that what you are referring to is behavioral multitasking. switching between different windows to surf the web, listen to your music, and chat with your friends is slightly different than Windows. I would not go and say that either way is more intuitive (although that's completely another discussion that i would chime in on if you want :) ) but it definitely has to do with what you are used to.
I used Windows as my primary OS for a couple of years way back in the day of windows 95/98... but i've seen used Mac OS X for basically everything. I've definitely gotten accustomed to switching between applications in OS X and handling everything very quickly... i've also picked up alot of tips and neat tricks along the way.
Tips:
-instead of using the yellow "minimize button" to send a window into the dock, you should consider using the "Hide application" command. Press Command(apple) - H and the frontmost application will hide itself. If you want to bring that application back, click on the application icon in the Dock...
- Here's a cool trick. To hide the current frontmost application and bring another application to the front, hold down Option and click on another application in the dock. The current application will hide, and the application you clicked on will come to the front.
There are many many other tricks. My point is that your "multitasking" is something purely behavioral, and it definitely depends on what you've been used to. If you've been used to Windows, you'll probably need to adjust, but for me who's been doing this for ages, its so natural now.
Oh, and in closing, i disagree with the "power-user" comment... i think that Mac OS X is a geek's dream in many many ways... for example... go to /Applications/Utilities/Terminal... This is a true UNIX command line on your mac. The mac has so many many power-user goodies like this (your computer has its own built in web server, did you know? ) that it gets from being a UNIX based OS.
Well, its great to hear your story, and i wish you luck in your Mac journey! Hope to hear about more of your exploits!
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May 10 '03
3:48 pm PDT
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