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An interesting essay--- (Reply to this comment)
by gaviidae
---about an interesting subject, that generates a LOT of heat these days!
IMHO---the most distinguishing thing about Liberals these days is that they favor government action to improve society and solve social problems, even if it involves higher taxes, larger government, and greater personal restrictions---i.e. less freedom.
Conservatives are against expanding government and are more concerned about individual responsibility and personal freedom. Conservatives are opposed to higher taxes and major new government programs based on confiscation and coercion. They prefer to address social problems through persuasion, education, and voluntary actions.
Liberals are more concerned about stability, economic security, and more equal outcomes.
Conservatives are more concerned about freedom, equal opportunity, and equal treatment under the law. That's why Conservatives are more likely than liberals to oppose things like affirmative action and quotas.
Conservatives MAY be more likely to be pro-life, and concerned about the evil they see in arbitrarily ending the life of an unborn child.
Liberals MAY be more likely to be more concerned about the rights of the mother than of the unborn child, and therefore to be pro-choice.
But--IMHO--abortion really isn't a liberal/conservative issue. There are many on both sides in both camps!
Thought-provoking essay! Thanks!
Gavia
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Jan 19 '04
7:17 pm PST
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Tom... (Reply to this comment)
by cr01
I won't get into the political debate, but as always you make some interesting points.
Congrats on the big 200! - I am (still) enjoying the ride!
Chris
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Jan 04 '04
1:56 am PST
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... (Reply to this comment)
by lemon_lime
tom,
i'm sure you know that the people taking time to respond to this essay will mostly be made up 'liberals'. as i've mentioned before, i don't particularly like labels, and i know you don't either, but it does tend to make things simpler for a whole lot of people, and short-cuts to thinking are always gonna be popular with a mass audience.
i was gonna point out the legal gay marriage thing, but it's been mentioned twice now, so i won't. i did have some problems with this:
Abortion is legal in America. Conservatives want to make it illegal, which they have to evoke change to do. Thus, supporting a woman's right to an abortion is a conservative view.
the main reason being that abortion was made legal in 1972 (73?) by the Supreme Court, but in the past it had not been legal. so i don't think you can really say that a certain stance was liberal, until the law changed, at which point - since the law now met with the more liberal view - the stance becomes traditional and thus, according to the view put forth in your essay, conservative. this kind of logic would meet with many problems on many other issues as well. just because a law has passed in a country doesn't automatically qualify it as being 'traditional', so you have to be careful there (otherwise you'd be claiming, at a more radical tangent, that liberals are pro-slavery, because that would be change, and change is what liberals are always after. you see the problem?)
anyhow, congrats on your 200th epinion, i've read most of them, and usually enjoy them. happy new year buddy...
cheers,
chad.
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Jan 03 '04
10:54 pm PST
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on issues (Reply to this comment)
by serc
You have an interesting article here, but it's also quite simplistic. (Of course, you could write pages about each issue, so who am I to criticize?)
As someone else pointed out, no state in the Union has legalized gay marriage (although Massachusetts may or may not within the next year or so). Vermont has legalized civil unions, which is the legal rights of married people without the name (or the religious implications, I guess). Some localities (i.e. cities, etc.) have domestic partnerships, with various benefits.
Regarding economics, I wouldn't say that liberals aren't capitalists and that conservative are, and I'd probably not call myself a socialist (since I'm liberal, take from that what you will). To me it's more that Republicans want tax cuts and less regulation - none if possible - whereas Democrats are concerned about the potential effects of the deficit (as seen in 1990-93 era or so) as well as having a stable network of entitlements that are already in place - i.e. social security, welfare, etc.
As a mother, I'm concerned that my kids are going to be paying off this deficit and so are my grandkids. And so are you. If you aren't familiar with how destructive credit card debt can be (and I hope you are not)... I think that is what scares me about it. I freak out when I have over a hundred dollars on my credit card.
Anyway, just a few random thoughts to add to yours...
Sara R-C
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Jan 03 '04
8:44 pm PST
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... (Reply to this comment)
by jordan_tar
Interesting article - a lot of good thoughts.
What seems to be going on here is an overlooking of certain concepts within the notions of liberal and conservative. I mean, dictionary definitions won't cut it. In liberalism, there's a certain sense of progress toward greater rights entailed, while in conservatism, there's a sense of personal responsibility. Obviously, these are overgeneralizations, but IMO they accurately capture a sense of the liberal-conservative dynamic that synonyms don't really capture. Let's not be enslaved by our language.
(btw, your statements on gay marriage are inaccurate - 37 states have enacted "Defense of Marriage" acts banning it.
I've also got to take issue with your statement that many liberals are "atheists/agnostics" - maybe there's a higher percentage, I wouldn't know, but I don't think the characteristic is predominant enough to draw an association to that extent. I'd also argue that Objectivist types, who accept conservative politics but are atheists, would account for a lot of conservatives being secular who might otherwise be forgotten.)
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Jan 03 '04
3:16 pm PST
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black and white? (Reply to this comment)
by kiljoi
wow...there's a lot generalization here of topics which are much more complex than you give them credit for....
(for example, some democrats are pro-civil unions for gays, but not pro-marriage, whereas some conservatives think it's not so much a moral issue, but a decision for individual states...see? it gets murky.)
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Jan 03 '04
3:28 am PST
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