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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by mothra3
That makes sense. I guess I'll just keep waiting patiently for the next time the GC strikes.
mothra
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Jul 08 '04
11:50 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
There could be, indeed, though the Curmudgeon tends to be careful about punctuation rules. He's a good deal more comfortable with words than marks.
Cheers!
tGC
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Jul 08 '04
6:18 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by mothra3
Mind boggling, it is.
I still think there's enough material here for another episode of the GC...
Thanks for the clarification.
The moth scratching her feather-antennaed head...
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Jul 07 '04
3:10 pm PDT
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Re: Re: beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
"Commas and periods go inside close quotes and parens; all other marks go outside."
There being no absolutes in punctuation, the Grammar Curmudgeon eschews "hard-and-fast" rules. Observe these differences for future reference:
Q1) I asked Jim what time it was, and he said, "Who cares?"
Q2) When you asked Jim what time it was, did he say, "Three o'clock"?
P1) The meeting (as if you care!) will take place at noon.
P2) Everyone will be naked (as I predicted)!
In USA usage (as opposed to European), periods and commas do indeed always repose within the closing quotation mark, though not necessarily within parentheses. Colons and semicolons are almost always outside. All other punctuation - ellipses, dashes, exclamation points, question marks, etc. - lie inside quotation marks if they are part of the quoted material and outside if they are part of the complete sentence (see above).
Punctuation within parentheses is generally maintained as is. If the parenthetical bit is a complete sentence, it must include its punctuation even if it is the last item in a sentence:
I know you heard him (He really said that?).
Most such cases are truly contrived and are so awkward that the sentence would read/sound better if re-cast. One exception is the occurrence of an abbreviation at the end of a parenthetical phrase:
The bar closes early (I think it's 9 p.m.) on Sundays.
Again, it's part of the phrase inside the parentheses and not part of the sentence "at large."
And plural possessives are the only plurals with apostrophes.
The exception that "proves the rule" is for pluralizing words used as words, and then only if omitting an apostrophe would be confusing. Examples? Try these on for size:
Can you find another word for a female deer? You have eight doe's in that paragraph. (potential confusion of the plural of the word "doe" with the contraction "does")
When working with MS-DOS, there are some critical do's and don'ts. (potential confusion of the acronym "DOS" with the plural of "do")
Unpunctuated abbreviations, however, do not - contrary to general usage - require an apostrophe to create the plural. It's DVDs, not DVD's, for instance.
Cheers.
R
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Jul 02 '04
6:21 am PDT
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Re: Meine dumpling! (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
Not "the German word for dumpling" but "somewhat similar to a germanic word for 'dumpling.'"
But no, I don't pronouce the K.
R
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Jul 02 '04
5:49 am PDT
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Re: beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by Penguinlady
Repeat after me:
"Commas and periods go inside close quotes and parens; all other marks go outside."
And plural possessives are the only plurals with apostrophes.
OK?
Miss Grundy
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Jul 01 '04
8:29 pm PDT
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Meine dumpling! (Reply to this comment)
by Penguinlady
...germanic word for "dumpling."
Your last name is Knödel? Do you pronounce the K?
Margaret
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Jul 01 '04
8:26 pm PDT
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Re: 28) (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
Didn't see it, I fear - to quote my answer, "I don't do movies." But thanks for the enlightenment.
R
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Jul 01 '04
5:36 am PDT
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28) (Reply to this comment)
by asafono
is a quote from Princess Bride (Vizzini, played by Wallace Shawn). Very relevant, too, in this day and age.
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Jun 30 '04
8:14 am PDT
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Re: Hi (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
:)
R
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Jun 24 '04
6:38 am PDT
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Re: hey there... (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
Snooze-boy said, "There's not really a rule for that . . .is there?"
Well, yeah, there is; though I'm hard-pressed to find it written anywhere (I don't have my copies of the Chicago Manual of Style and the AP Style Guide with me just now). When objects or names of equal importance (even just two) are listed in a series, native English speakers naturally list them in order of number of syllables, from shortest to longest. Doing otherwise tends to disturb the rhythm of speech or writing.
Try this: think of any two or three married couples you know. Almost invariably, you'll list their names in that order, regardless of which is male and which is female - Bill and Hillary, Chris and Tony, Sue and Robert. The same tends to happen with series of common nouns, especially when written (where the writer has time to think before committing the words to the paper).
If I find a reference, I'll let you know - Google didn't find anything, but maybe I asked it the wrong question(s).
R
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Jun 24 '04
6:37 am PDT
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Re: I (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
Yeah, well, I was merely quoting Roy Blount, Jr., with a little added advice of my own. Glad it tickled your funny bone!
R
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Jun 24 '04
6:09 am PDT
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Re: beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by scmrak
the 3rd generation of an animated Japanese moth said, "I remember the rule that says that punctuation is always supposed to be inside the quotation marks..."
You'll get lots of argument on that assertion, mothie. A period, comma, or ellipsis is always inside; though a partial stop or full stop is always outside (that's a leftpondian vs. rightpondian difference in typographical conventions). A colon or semicolon is usually outside the quotation marks. An exclamation point or question mark is inside the marks if it's part of the original quoted material, outside if it's not. Hence, your original statement, "Thanks for the extra eye--I mean, 'i'!" was punctuated correctly for one taught English in an "American" school. Of course, since I quoted it, it now looks a tad different, but you can now see the different position of the exclamation point relative to the inner single quotes (yours) and the outer double quotes (mine).
Clear as mud? I thought so.
It was fun. Thanks for the invite.
R
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Jun 24 '04
6:07 am PDT
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Hi (Reply to this comment)
by proxam
"Leaving big blank spots in the middle of my reviews."
LOL!
Drew
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Jun 24 '04
5:12 am PDT
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hey there... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
you said...
" 'Plums' comes first in the series because it's only one syllable long. Make that 'plums, apples, and bananas.' "
There's not really a rule for that . . .is there?
Missus Doyle, my fifth grade English teacher, didn't learn us this!! I don't believe it!
You are damn annoying!
...tom...
' trying hard not to rubberstamp everything . . .but I think the posse might start without me . . .annoying posse! '
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Jun 23 '04
3:16 pm PDT
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I (Reply to this comment)
by theresaro
Enjoyed the read LOL. Especially number 6. Roflao.
Teri :)
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Jun 23 '04
3:15 pm PDT
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beautiful, truly... (Reply to this comment)
by mothra3
Thanks for the extra eye--I mean, "i"!
But I guess you missed all those episodes where Sylvester mistakes the Kangaroo for a giant mouse and is repeatedly pummeled (to the great chagrin of his doting son)...
Thanks for the entry!!!
mothra3
OOH! I have a great idea for your next curmudgeon rant: quotation marks! For example, I remember the rule that says that punctuation is always supposed to be inside the quotation marks, but in situations like the first sentence, what's an aspiring grammar groupie to do???
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Jun 23 '04
3:09 pm PDT
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