|
Comment |
Sorted by
Date Written |
Interesting Concept (Reply to this comment)
by jmatsu
Hi, Tom,
I never would have thought of rating an old review by today's standards. I guess a lot of the older reviews I've come across haven't been great, but I used to think it would be unfair to rate them as if they were written today--unless they were a very good old review that I could easily and reasonably give a VH too. However you are right that the reviewers have the option of updating their old reviews, so judging them by modern standards I guess is fair.
One thing that I have found though is that I'm best able to evaluate how good a review is, when I am sincerely interested in learning about the product (such as when I'm trying to figure out which one to buy). I know immediately if a review is very helpful or not.
Thanks for giving us this food for thought.
-Joy
|
Dec 27 '06
6:02 pm PST
|
|
Tom: (Reply to this comment)
by macresarf1
You've always intrigued me because it takes me so long to figure out your reasoning, and you seem to exude such an aura of how Epinions really works . . . or should work.
I seldom see it, but I think I should.
But I'm a fan of the Vertical Read myself though, even as an Advisor, I never had enough time to do as many as I wished. Still, I like the idea.
I still don't understand why you gave me the "Helpful" on my review of THE BLACK DAHLIA. It was a "first review," and it had a discussion of THE MAN WHO LAUGHS, which is obviously important to the plot, but which no other reviewer I came across mentioned. I also was not taken in by my desire to like the film nor my love of Ellroy.Thorough, I thought. If that review was not Very Helpful, what would be?
Yet, I did not resent the Helpful, at all.
I guess that I'll have to read a hundred reviews to find out if you found one Most Helpful.
If I were running the show, I would make Helpful the norm. Then, only maybe a quarter of the reviews would be rated Very Helpful, and we might have more Most Helpful's.
After all, that was what Most Helpful was brought in to correct.
My only regret as an Advisor is that I did not give MORE Most Helpfuls. With my background, I know almost right away when I come across a review that is not likely to be bettered. But I always thought, Ah! there may be someone out there who thinks that, not having read all the other 222 reviews of something I know about, I am showing favoritism.
I might have helped dozens of excellent reviewers stay here a bit longer. I guess, in the corporate mode, tired competence is to be preferred.
Occasionally, I come across a review with a couple of Most Helpfuls, but the Advisors have been cashiered, months or years ago. They have left their mark behind. I like that.
Most terrible, sometimes doing a vertical read of an old subject, I've somehow knocked a Most Helpful down to Very Helpful. It is the only problem of no longer having an Advisors Hat. I can't repair my careless stupidity.
Remember, Tom, "Judge not, lest ye be judged!"
Finally, I'm all for your Old Review concept. I have hundreds of old reviews, a few of the best that I ever did, that I've never seen you touch. A Helpful or two couldn't hurt, Tom.
It's the thought that counts.
Anyway, I enjoyed your piece, as I always do.
Like the Shadow, you are always out there lurking --
"The Sleeper Knows!"
Best regards.
Alex -- Macresarf1
|
Oct 14 '06
9:39 pm PDT
|
|
Am I alone in this? (Reply to this comment)
by gatorgirlie
Ok, while I've heard of "vertical rating" in the past I want to thank you for explaining it to me.
What I don't understand is how this could possibly be "bad"? Am I the only person who really, truly uses this site for research purposes as well? If there's a product I want, I will read every review available on it... and if I'm in the mood I'll rate them as I see them. I never knew that some people could consider that a negative practice, but then again... what do I care?
lol, anyway... thanks for the info
Jen
|
Aug 23 '06
10:13 am PDT
|
|
How neat-o (Reply to this comment)
by miller1611
What a concept...Now I know where those "only helpful" ratings came from a couple of reviews ago! HA
Thanks.
Michelle
|
Aug 07 '06
8:23 am PDT
|
|
How amusing! (Reply to this comment)
by carradee
I've been starting to vertical rate without even being aware I was doing it! Thanks for the input on the concept, so I have a better idea of the pros & cons of what I'm doing according to this site.
(I daresay Epinions works a bit differently than fictionpress or fanstory, don't you think?) ^_^
Hm, I seem to becoming overfond of smilies…
Okay, well, sorry for the off-topic element of this topic, and thank you for the input here!
-Misti
|
Aug 01 '06
7:16 pm PDT
|
|
I vertical rated this (Reply to this comment)
by shopaholic_man
and your essay was by far the MOST HELPFUL on the subject of vertical rating. Sorry I don't have the button to officialy note that!
|
Jul 16 '06
9:01 am PDT
|
|
This makes sense to me, but then... (Reply to this comment)
by bonnieleigh
I am woefully direct and apolitical, and I do not understand any of the machinations of this site. That's why I shall never, ever be a "hat" of any kind - that much I know! Shoot, I have no aspirations to be a pair of old socks!
I find reading several or all the reviews on a product to be very interesting - but I do it AFTER I've written whatever I'm going to write, as a usual thing. Once in a great while I'll read a review that will "pique" my interest and lead me to write my own review to either counter that one, or to expand on some point that I feel was overlooked, but usually I like to write my reviews "cold" as far as other reviews go. And it's so time-consuming for me to read (much faster at writing). No, I don't envy you hatted folks! :)
bonnieSleigh
|
Dec 05 '04
7:14 am PST
|
|
Hey (Reply to this comment)
by brendan2
I vertical read and rate from time to time if I am especially interested in a product or to determine whether a Most Helpful rating is in order. I never knew that had a name though. :)
~Liz
|
Sep 26 '04
7:26 pm PDT
|
|
I just tried out (Reply to this comment)
by msmarques
doing a complete vertical rate on a product with only 10 reviews over 3 years. (Fluxx card game)
Although the quality of reviews was variable, I didn't notice that more recent reviews were better (or that older ones were lacking).
Perhaps the changing expectations are more significant in certain categories?
|
Sep 26 '04
6:51 am PDT
|
|
I'm peeking at this very moment (Reply to this comment)
by mike.holmes
I found this review fascinating in that I have been on this site for years and knew nothing about this concept. Also enjoyed your point out the tGC review. And I wanted to thank you for adding me to your WOT.
|
Sep 25 '04
7:42 pm PDT
|
|
Re: Any review out there (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
you said...
"Can't do nothing about it though - that's just life."
What . . .!?! Is that the way the Old West was won...?!?!?
I say round up that posse and lets ride hard leather!!!
Thanks for the read/rate/comment.
...tom...
' Yes . . .I am being just a bit silly right now . . .bare with me (tGC alert!) and I'll get over it . . . '
|
Sep 23 '04
5:30 pm PDT
|
|
Re: Re: hey there all again... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
you said...
"If this person keeps the hat next selection I will probably go balistic and write something about it."
Being as diplomatic as possible and not saying anything about anyone in any way (how's that for being Eps' PC...?!?), if the situation and facts are as you describe them . . .
.
.
.
.
.
I would not blame you.
...tom...
|
Sep 23 '04
5:27 pm PDT
|
|
Any review out there (Reply to this comment)
by AliventiAsylum
no matter what the date is subject to being rated - no one should whine about an older review being rated poorly - for whatever reason the person went back and rated it - if the rating is fair by today's standards.
I have some stuff written 3+ years ago I know is quite a bit different than what I've written recently. Most long-timers do. I've never complained about a fair rating. There are reviews that get updated and some people just look at the old ratings and rate it that when they come across it, though, without ever reading it for themselves. Can't do nothing about it though - that's just life.
Patti
|
Sep 23 '04
4:56 pm PDT
|
|
Re: hey there all again... (Reply to this comment)
by bonniesayers
"Abuse of the MH rating as you describe should not be tolerated, IMHO."
Hey Tom - The person I mentioned has not rated in almost a month and today gave two MH ratings. One of those had another review, which this member did not rate and the other was one of 12812 reviews. If this person keeps the hat next selection I will probably go balistic and write something about it.
Bonnie
|
Sep 23 '04
9:40 am PDT
|
|
Re: I'm with the GC (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
you said...
"Vertical rating does nothing for the site, rubber stampers do it on a regular basis. Vertical reading does wonders for Epinions database."
You lost me there. Something subtle I missed or . . .?
you said...
"It's a great filing system and we're the file clerks."
That's a great morale booster!
you said...
"For titleholders with access to the MH rating button, it should be a regular practice."
Exactly!
you said...
"Just offering my Income Share..."
Took me a while . . .but I get it!!
Thanks for the read/rate/comment!
...tom...
|
Sep 22 '04
12:47 pm PDT
|
|
hey there all again... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
To each, in their own turn...
Dean
That e-mail alert thing on an old review is neat. Assuming of course the alert system works...
Vertical rating might be able 'to resurrect' only those lightly-rated reviews among very few others.
Mark and his two cents
Any product with 50 reviews probably does not need yet another review. The new 'angle' would indeed need to be something unique.
Bonnie
Believe me, I do not need any more comment threads to read. I have enough 'fires' going as it is! Abuse of the MH rating as you describe should not be tolerated, IMHO.
Michele/msmarques
'Super-long comment...?? I know you have seen much longer! How to rate is indeed a unique mind-set here at Epinions.
Kate
I tried rating from the bottom also and that really didn't work for me either. I guess I like the . . .'randomness' of rating them by date. Plus it really does give a unique view of how the 'standards' have changed here through the years.
Ac
you said...
"It's a repetitive thing that most humans need in order to remember what they like about something."
That's why my wife rotates the same four meals in our dinner menus!
Whether to read other reviews before writing your own is another of those personal preference things here.
To every one included here...
Thanks for the reads/rates/comments!
...tom...
|
Sep 22 '04
12:42 pm PDT
|
|
I'm with the GC (Reply to this comment)
by pogomom
Vertical rating does nothing for the site, rubber stampers do it on a regular basis. Vertical reading does wonders for Epinions database. By making sure that all reviews under a particular topic have current ratings placed by members using current Epinions rating guidelines, the best reviews rise to the top and the less helpful reviews are hidden from non-members. It's a great filing system and we're the file clerks.
For titleholders with access to the MH rating button, it should be a regular practice. How else could anyone know if the one review they just read is the Most Helpful without reading every other review under that topic listing?
Just offering my Income Share...
Helen
|
Sep 22 '04
11:10 am PDT
|
|
Re: Re: Re: hey there... (Reply to this comment)
by oldcomixfan
Correction: Eclipse on the 27th for this side of the Atlantic, the 28th for those on the other side. I was thinking in Universal Time not regular time.
And, no, Bob's a little bit too happy and endowed for me to feel safe around him on the set.
|
Sep 22 '04
11:05 am PDT
|
|
Re: Re: hey there... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
Thanks a lot.
Now whenever I see or hear that 'Bob the Enzyte Man' commercial I will think of o-c-f.
Tell me, would you pick him to play you in the movie of your life...?
...tom...
' on the clock . . . '
|
Sep 22 '04
10:11 am PDT
|
|
Re: Curious... (Reply to this comment)
by bonniesayers
I also start at the bottom. I found that when I started at the top with more than one page and hit next that I would see reviews I had just rated since they moved in their order. Not sure that explains it right, but starting at the bottom seemed more accurate so I did not miss one in the lineup.
I never change the order, just keep them the way they were displayed.
Bonnie
|
Sep 22 '04
7:13 am PDT
|
|
Re: Re: umm, were you talking (Reply to this comment)
by Annie_Crane
wow by the time I get my email alerts, the world has passed me by.
Bob Tomato, I have to add one more thing. If a person who is not a member of Epinions reads the same thing from a lot of people and it's all good reviews, that is going to stick with him. If the person reads a little of this and a little of that and a little of something else, the information may not stick with him. It's a repetitive thing that most humans need in order to remember what they like about something.
To each their own and I may not read other peoples reviews, but I doubt you'll find any of my reviews a 'rubber stamp'. I think that should apply to those who are not experienced writers to Epinions. But the pros should know how to cover everything without reading someone else's work.
God bless,
And have a great day,
Ac
|
Sep 22 '04
7:08 am PDT
|
|
Curious... (Reply to this comment)
by lyagushka
that you vertical rate according to the chronological order of the reviews. I tend to leave them in their ranked orders, but I start from the bottom. In theory, that should mean that as I read, each successive review is "better" than the previous one. I do this so that I don't read the "better" reviews first and thus prejudice myself against the lower ranked reviews. In reality of course, I often find a review somewhere in the middle that I think is superior to many ranked above it.
Anyway, thanks for speaking up in defense of this practice. I think it's a valuable discipline that every member should practice at least once in a while. It would help the site enormously if we all did so.
cheers,
Kate
|
Sep 22 '04
2:24 am PDT
|
|
Interesting idea (Reply to this comment)
by msmarques
I tend to do vertical reads on a movie or book that I recently saw/read and have a strong opinion on.... I'm interested to see what others thought.
But then I am not always sure how to rate and sometimes don't feel I should rate. If I disagree with the reviewer, but that person provided lots of information and/or a very different take on the subject, yes, I can see it is very helpful. But sometimes I'll see a review and feel that the review is not as helpful, because it doesn't address the aspect that I feel strongly about, and while it covers the bases is nothing extra special.
Here is an example... recently saw the movie "Hero", which has received many good profesional reviews, and a few reviews (all favourable) in epinions. I did not enjoy that movie, although I enjoyed others in that genre (e.g. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon). One review I had no problem giving a VH, as the reviewer discussed not only the film, but the symbolism... giving additional meaning to the film I just saw. Another review, however, I would have rated VH before seeing the film (seems to address all areas of the film, if you didn't see it), but having seen the film, the review seems lacking to me. Do I not rate, because it might be my personal bias against the film? Do I rate H and mention what I thought was missing from the review? Do I just leave a comment and no rate?
Sorry for the super-long comment.
|
Sep 21 '04
7:50 pm PDT
|
|
Re: hey there... (Reply to this comment)
by oldcomixfan
That many hits doesn't surprise me. I'm sure it's a common problem for proctologists everywhere. Banging the google to pass the time and take their minds off of it will put the twinkle back in their eyes and pep in the step just like Bob the Enzyte Man.
Speaking of shadows, there's a lunar eclipse October 28th for everyone in most of Europe and the American continents. Mark your calendars and remember to hide the virgins from all those filthy virgin-wasting Aztecs.
|
Sep 21 '04
7:01 pm PDT
|
|
Vertical rating/Most Helpful (Reply to this comment)
by bonniesayers
I just had a comment showdown with an advisor who rated some really old reviews MH, I happened upon them because I was vertical rating a few topics and could not help myself but leave a comment on the MH ratings, which also happened to be by the same person said newly crowned advisor introduced to the site. Three MH ratings were given to headings that had hundreds of reviews and I did not see that Advisor rate any of them. These three MH ratings were given to the same person on the same day. One actually mentioned the advisor by name as referring the member to the site and it was a site that is no longer relevant.
If you ever get bored email me for those comment threads!!!! Lately my comments get deleted by the member before others get to them and I have such a good time leaving them!
Bonnie
|
Sep 21 '04
6:37 pm PDT
|
|
Hi Tom (Reply to this comment)
by barakah59
So you introduced me to some new eps terms as well, and I guess I am guilty of vertical reading and rating and yes I do subscribe to some product reviews but I can assure you that it is not self serving in the sense to lower or raise one of my own reviews. It is very self serving in the sense I want to know about that product. Either because I own it or am thinking of buying it. Or as in the case of a particular game I am interested in others opinions.
Some times I read other reviews before I write my own and then if I feel I can add something new to the discussion I will write my review If I feel it's all been said before I will pass and write about something else.
My popularity on the site isn't such that adding the 50th review to a product that has been well written about so many times that mine would be the first and last word on it standing out among all others so as they could be ignored if you know what I mean. Then on the other hand some of those other reviews inspire me to write. If I can offer some unique angle to the consumer I will pursue that goal.
Enjoyed your essay.
Mark and my two cents on this topic.
|
Sep 21 '04
3:22 pm PDT
|
|
hey there Tom... (Reply to this comment)
by dbcint
I frequent the general just-in page, and the just-in pages of my favourite categories on a daily basis. Perhaps when I branch out into more categories I'll read more of them as well.
I don't do a lot of vertical reading and/or rating, but it sounds like a good idea. Imagine getting an email alert telling you someone has rated a review you wrote months or even years ago - wouldn't that bring a smile to one's face?
I'm reminded of trust12345's "second chance W/O" awhile back... vertical rating seems like another way to resurrect forgotten reviews.
Dean.
|
Sep 21 '04
3:15 pm PDT
|
|
hey there... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
hey there o-c-f...
Did you know that google returns 2,020 hits on the words fecal and boredom...? You know that googlebang (or whatever the word is!) game where you try to find two single words that return but _one_ hit?
What the hell is this world coming to..!?!
Always a pleasure when your shadow darkens my comment page.
Thanks for the read/rate/comment.
...tom...
|
Sep 21 '04
3:05 pm PDT
|
|
Re: Re: hey there all... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
..
hey there...
hmmmm . . .'diagonal reading'. Now that sounds kinky!
And I am really 'out of the loop' on all these off-site boards.
I have never heard of that one!
Thanks for the read/rate/comment.
...tom...
|
Sep 21 '04
3:01 pm PDT
|
|
Vertical reading (Reply to this comment)
by oldcomixfan
is also fun to do in WC categories except for "member messages to the community" that's so bloated, overfed and constipated by survey/questionare W/O submissions/announcements its colon is gonna blow at any moment and spatter us all with a plethora of fecal boredoms. Really. Just look at it. The poor thing needs an enema and high colonic stat before lethal toxicities become irreversible and structural integrity gives out completely.
|
Sep 21 '04
2:45 pm PDT
|
|
|
