GAY MARRIAGE-GOD AND POLITICS HMR WO
Apr 27 '05
The Bottom Line Some gay relationships make better marriages than either of mine. But nobody told me I wasn’t allowed to get married . (Darn it)
When you think about it, our discussion of gay marriage is silly-actually discussion of any marriage is silly. Because like all relationships it requires an effort on both parties to make it work, and either way, it is a commitment made by only those two people.
Disclaimer: I am not prepared to say that all marriage is wrong, and I am not specifically targeting YOURS. I have seen loving marriages that lasted a lifetime. I have seen hate-hate relationships that lasted like what must have seemed several lifetimes. And I have known gay Couples that made most marriages seem like poor imitations of what we call marriage, and gay parents who put most other parents to shame.
But that isn’t really the issue here is it? We are not really talking about loving relationships are we? We are talking about a political issue, one of the many used to whip our emotions into a frenzy, based on what ? Our societal gender expectations? Our religion? The Bible? Whatever your “feelings” are about this issue, I am sure of only one thing. That we are being used, by politicians that could really care less about these issues. The end result is that we are once again targeting a fraction of our society, limiting their rights to the life, and basic freedoms that we enjoy. We are becoming a nation of self righteous bigots.
Once again, I hope that people of good conscience will look deep into their hearts and resist the road to fascism. I’ll step off my soapbox, long enough to answer the questions posed by our host lemon_lime, http://www.epinions.com/user-lemon_lime. See this link for information on this write-off. http://www.epinions.com/content_4325744772
What are your spiritual beliefs or religious affiliations?
I believe in God, and the last time I checked, the feeling was mutual. I have been a Christian all my life. As a child I attended several different churches (and sang in the choir in 3 of them) . I lived in a neighborhood where more than half of my friends were practicing Catholics. I learned early that these religions, all calling themselves Christians, had markedly different beliefs. What I choose to believe is that God loves us in spite of our faults, and if we pay attention, will guide us to do what is right. But you could not pay me (Oh maybe you could , if you paid a LOT) to attend church now, as deeply distressed as I am with the actions of people who call themselves Christians.-and allow, for example, a telecast into their church service, of a politician who wants the Christian community to support the abolition of filibustering in Congress.
What is your sexual orientation?
I believe in sex. Preferably between two people, although I suppose that is not strictly necessary.
I would say that heterosexual is the word you want, although I don’t know why you care.
How do you see your own religious/spiritual views as influencing your opinion of sexuality?
Interesting question. My religious/spiritual views do not relate to such things as sexuality, really. I believe that your relationship with God is a soul connection, and as the bible has said , there is no “male and female” in heaven. I don’t believe that God thinks much about sexuality either unless it is a sort of distant amusement. I know that people are oriented to their sexual preferences not by choice but by their bodies. To our great shame, many of these people are taught from infancy that what they are feeling is wrong, and they become alienated even from those who should love them without reservation -their own families.
The short answer here, though, is “not at all”.
How do you define marriage?
I would like to say a partnership, but I hate to use that word. It is a loving relationship between two people who believe that they will spend the rest of their lives together. They agree to support and love each other though all the difficulties that human life presents. They share responsibilities and assets. They present to society as one entity, with common goals and aspirations.
(Notice how I objectively keep my own feelings about marriage out of the answer)
What thoughts or reactions do you have to these two pictures? (all completely safe for work, home, etc.)
1. http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/03/10/ba_knight01.jpg
These two guys are holding hands, and one is looking at the other lovingly, while some goofy looking character is in the middle. Is he the marrying them? No feelings , just curiosity perhaps. If this is a church, that makes it all the more interesting and I say, good for them, more power to them. I know of no such church. But I have attended marriage ceremonies where the minister performing the ceremony was gay-does that count? In fact someone very close to me was married by a gay minister and her husband’s best man was a female in a tuxedo.
2. http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/02/13/ba_gaywed_01_lm.jpg
By the title on the URL I see that this is supposed to be another gay wedding? If it was not, these could be two sisters simply having a party, or getting some humanitarian award. They are older, so obviouisly it took them a long time to formalize this relationship. They were probably afraid to do this, and yet have probably been in a relationship for many years. How sad that they could not celebrate their relationship publicly all that time.
How does one of Christian faith reconcile these two pictures? Is one ““right”” and one ““wrong””? What reactions do you have to seeing these signs?
1. http://www.sushiesque.com/photos/boston_common_031104/dscn1373.jpg
These people do not represent the God that I love. How could hate ever be justified in terms of God’s love? Since when are Adam and Eve good examples of Christian marriage? After all they had a lot of children and the children in making other children were engaged in incest.
If these people are Christians then I would have to say that I am not. I will not accept guilt by association.
As for AIDS, the unfortunate Jerry Falwell originated that idea, that it is God’s punishments for homosexuality. That doesn’t explain the hundreds of thousands of heterosexual deaths and deaths of children by this disease, world wide. I know, let us just all be ignorant! That should save the world. Please. Don’t get me started.
2. http://www.sushiesque.com/photos/boston_common_031104/dscn1419.JPG
I have a hard time reading the first sign. But if it means that we should not consider changing the constitution to legitimize only heterosexual marriages, then I agree. And the second sign “What you do to the least of my brothers you do to ME” is the way I believe God is looking on our continued persecution of minorities in this country.
Why do you think the topic of homosexuality is so polarizing in religious communities?
Is it polarizing? I was under the impression that they were all of one mind here. It is polarizing because Christians (myself included) have an unfortunate tendency to judge others. They confuse their belief and definition with what God believes. Some even try to convince you be saying that God is talking to them. I believe people in religious communities would not be incensed to this issue if religious leaders were not taking them that direction. Most “flocks” tend to take their minister seriously, and if he (or she) really preached tolerance, love and understanding, the flock would either come around to their beliefs or go find another church more suited to what they believe.
A few weeks ago, when the Chiaivo death watch was on television, a family member came home from church and told me that her minister said that the husband “ was evil. He had a life insurance policy on Terri and wanted her to die. He had abused her”. I heard similar church based sentiments on the war in Iraq.. None of this had any basis in fact.
Just as politics needs to stay out of the church, the church in all its forms, needs to stay out of politics. How do you justify the pope’s alliance with Hitler in WWII? The organized CHURCH in all ifs forms does seem to be bending under the power of a different agenda.
Let me say this again, in case you missed it the first time. You are being used. Someone is taking your very belief in God and turning it to their purpose.
Should the government be in the business of defining marriage? Why or why not?
The short answer is no-because marriage is an agreement between two people who in the long run have to answer only to each other. Where is this defined in government now?
But the long answer is:
Only if they define it as a legal partnership, so that people who spend a lifetime together can support each other the way that is possible for only heterosexual marriages under the current rules.
I have two stories to tell here, both of people I knew well. One person I worked with in New Mexico was respiratory therapist. She had two kids by a bad marriage 11 and 13 , and had been living with her life mate, Alice for 10 years. She worked while Alice mothered the children and took care of the home. My friend one day was in an accident, and based on her living will, refused to be put on a respirator and died. Unfortunately, the state did not recognize the union of the these two people, and Alice got nothing, not even the life insurance benefits that my friend had signed in her name. The children were taken away to an orphanage. The house was put in probate for some of my friend’s distant blood relatives to haggle over. Alice, who was deeply grieving and was now homeless, without any family, in the end, committed suicide.
Another couple I knew well and recently, in the last 6 years, had been together for 25 years. They were both nurses in the hospital I worked at, J in the ER and A on the Medical Floor. They were both outstanding, compassionate, nurses, and unless they told you, you would have never guessed that they had been a loving couple all those years, -unless of course they invited you into the warmth of their friendship, as they did me. They had a life long dream of owning a home in the surrounding mountains and they finally accomplished this 8 years ago. They each put everything they had into that home. Both in their fifties, they believed it would be a great place to enjoy their declining years. Tragedy struck, and A died suddenly, the only warning being about 8 hours of flu like symptoms. What happened then was a nightmare. A’s family (who had visited only a month before) immediately showed up, and took over as the closest blood relatives. They even tried to keep “J” from attending the funeral. They then tried to get the house that the couple had bought together. Had their union been legal, this would not have been possible.
My mother tells me stories of nurses who won’t allow anyone but immediate family in to see intensive care patients . This I know to be true. But I know I personally had a broader view of what is meant by “family”, and I would hope that other of my profession would understand that sometimes, the rules are meant to be reinterpreted.
Would you support the legalization of gay marriage?
Yes. If you legalize any marriage at all, gay marriage is valid.
If you answered no, what are your fears behind its legalization? If you answered yes, what are your fears behind it remaining illegal?
My fears only relate to the two stories I just mentioned. Situations where people cannot receive heath care benefits, say, from a same sex partner, as a heterosexual couple could have medical coverage, is flat out discrimination of the worst kind. If it stays illegal we will continue victimizing this minority.
And if you are worried about legalization meaning encouraging people to become gay, don’t even think about it. It is something you are born with or not, and it isn’t contagious.
Would you support government-sanctioned civil unions between homosexual couples?
I don’t understand” government sanctioned.” How about just the government 'allows'?
Civil union by the way is not just for homosexual couples. Even though I was Christian I could knot get married in a church the first time because my husband was Jewish. And if I was not willing to convert, we could not get married in a synagogue either.
My second marriage we chose to have the ceremony outside under God’s sky in Colorado, with a minster marrying us. I felt closer to God there than in a church.
Do you see any way of bridging this current divide in our country over "wedge issues" like gay marriage or abortion? Or should we even be trying?
I think if we keep religion out of politics and more importantly politics out of religion, we might be able to see more clearly into our own hearts and resolve this issue.
What do you see America's view of homosexuality and gay marriage being in 100 years from today? What will those future Americans think of us in 2005, as they look back?
I can’t presume to look that far ahead. If we haven’t got that issue to get frenzied about, we will probably find others. If we continue in our present mode, what makes you think their will be anyone on earth to look back, or think any thing at all?
Final thoughts or ideas:
It is time for us to be the America we always claimed to be. Let this be the land of the free and the home of the brave. Dare to be different. Think for yourself. After all, God gave you the brain. He expects you to use it.
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Epinions.com ID:
artbyjude
|
 - Top 500 |
|
Member: jude paxton
Location: In a state of confusion
Reviews written: 699
Trusted by: 459 members
About Me:
If I'd known TODAY was to be my TOMORROW I woulda done better YESTERDAY.
|
|
|
© 1999-2009 Shopping.com, Inc.