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Re: Re: a lot of your criticism (Reply to this comment)
by gareth_t
Firstly, thank you all for a rather concise, thought-provoking discourse, reflecting a rather concise, thought-provoking track by Kaas.
I have had this track for a while now- probably since this thread began- and I've always felt that there were a few niggling details that (albeit only slightly) marred what I truly consider to be a masterpiece.
However, I do acknowledge that a 7.7-minute track with less than forty seconds' worth of (perhaps) less-well-researched statements is a pretty damned accurate one when compared to most news reports (not to mention rap lyrics!) and as such its message cannot be ignored.
Also, of course Mr Kaas was biased- and thank god (or witches, aliens, unicorns, or evolution INPO) for that or none of us would ever have heard this track. The bias and the motivation to make the track were surely from the same place- Kaas' true beliefs.
It is certainly true that at countless times in history individual "white" people have deliberately and unconscionably set out to stifle other races' (and therefore individuals') prosperity. The worst examples of this that we are now aware of have involved a poisoning of the minds of the "white" masses- most poignantly during WWII.
It is most shocking to me, and crucially most indicative of a need for this work of art, that people actually believe that this era of history is over now- that racism and "white" dominance for their own sake no longer exist. This just shows how easily "white" people can live unaware of it.
At no point does Kaas say or suggest that "white" people are the only racists; If you can't understand or agree with the use of the word "threat" then you are probably "white" and probably racist.
The homosexuality comments, I feel, were not meant in a derogatory way- at least not to gay people. The point is a good one: christianity is very anti-homosexual, yet its true father, Rome, appears to have been a more gay-friendly society than ours today.
Finally, I would love to learn of the creative process behind this track, and certainly would not criticise any of the world's cannabis-smoking originators - they have given us a lot. In fact, anyone agreeing with the perjorative nature of this thread's title might be alarmed to discover that the substance has been used (quite successfully) as a truth serum.
I'd like to invite anyone who gets this far to email me your thoughts. I have a UK Hotmail Address in this name.
Gareth_T
"I love the place I live but I hate the people in charge" Immortal Technique
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Dec 13 '09
8:33 pm PST
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Re: a lot of your criticism (Reply to this comment)
by heru-tunde
Yea your right, sadly russian raiderz is wrong on alot of the criticism, firstly, rass kass is right about, the phonecians who were a people who encompassed north africa to parts of the wrongly and inaccurate term "middle east" they were black pictures today are available depicting them as so(but you must learn to seprate fake from orginal through research, as the fake nefertiti bust shows) even from a biblical angle they were tyhe same semitic people as the cannanites, who were said to come from Ham, and evryone knows that the greek civilization is based on egyptian civilization before it some of thier scholars studied in temples in thebes,(check what herodtus and socrates say on the grandeur of egyptian civilzation) and finally.... the moors lived in spain for 800 years. check www.egyptiansearch.com a really good site on world history, which many scholars contribute to.
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May 21 '09
1:35 pm PDT
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a lot of your criticism (Reply to this comment)
by wutup
is distorted and wrong. Greek philosophers themselves admitted that they got a lot of their knowledge from Africans in Kemet (now known as Egypt)...I suggest reading "Stolen Legacy." I'm guessing from your critiques that you are of European decent. Most of your arguments are over "dates" which are debatable. Ras spits a lot of facts in this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4maNtzhL9Q
I suggest reading some John Henrik Clark, Runoko Rashidi, Ivan Van Sertima, Jose Pimienta, Martin Bernal, George E. James,Barashango, etc. before making your critiques next time or otherwise you might be a perfect example of what Ras talks about in this song. Regardless of whether everything is 100% correct, the primary point is that Ras takes a look at Europeans through a historical scope and how they have sought to conquer people of color (through religion, wars, slavery, mass genocide, etc.) while simultaneously making them feel inferior.
There are even white anthropologists who have taken a look at European aggression from an evolutionary standpoint, because they realize it's difference from aggression seen in all human beings. You should take a look at "The Iceman Inheritance" by Michael Bradley. The truth is this song makes a lot of white people uncomfortable, which is why this song is a hard pill to swallow.
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Apr 25 '09
10:51 pm PDT
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good interpretation, just 1 thing tho (Reply to this comment)
by kyzersozay
yo, that was a good interpretation of nature of the threat, the thing is I refuse to argue history, I don't think there's any way to really know what happened in the past cuz historians lie to reflect their views instead of facts
the 1 thing that you got wrong tho was this
"This is the part where Ras Kass is most remembered for going absolutely LOONEY. Baghdad, Turkey? What was he smoking? Baghdad is in Iraq (then known as Mesopotamia)…separate of Turkey (which wasn’t even called Turkey until the 20th Century. It was known as the Ottoman Empire, Mr. Ras Kass). In any case, the Moors were not from Baghdad but from North Africa. Granada was actually defeated on January 2nd, 1492, and this doesn’t have the slightest relation to the American Holiday of Thanksgiving."
The part about Baghdad, Turkey
Ras Kass was correct about there being a Baghdad, Turkey...
It was known as the Baghdad Province of the Ottoman Empire. Baghdad, Ottoman Empire(modern day Turkey) was a vilayet or province(vilayet is Arabic which translates into province) and the capital of this province was Baghdad
Good job tho man, nobody always gets 100% but it was close
checkout Kyzer Sozay at www.myspace.com/musicbykyzer
you won't be disappointed
PEACE
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Nov 19 '07
6:08 pm PST
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Huh? (Reply to this comment)
by maxpower1013
Your commentary does not actually point out the factual inaccuracies in the song, but rather just opinions of what you think of the lyrics. Further more, you start to merely defend whites (which leads to the conclusion that you're probably white) instead of addressing what is wrong.
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Apr 24 '07
12:02 pm PDT
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siejfpjoiwd (Reply to this comment)
by stillblade
I dunno why people hype this track up so much... I could listen to this any time I put Soul on Ice cuz it's a good song, but there's no way this track is f*ckin with Interview With a Vampire... all the people writing him off as "just another ignorant political rapper" aren't really much better themselves by judging his whole career off one track... f*ck Ras' take on history, but f*ck everyone else's as well... humanity has polluted the subject beyond belief, which is why I personally don't mess with it. I refuse to consult one historian who has no real credibility to refute another historian's views. As long as you can't do that, Nature of the Threat is impossible to argue against besides for the discrepencies involving when certain people lived. However, it's definitely true that dude had an agenda on making this track, which can be displayed by the whole "racism is discrimination against all nonwhites" crap.
The funny thing about the track is that it succeeds in the way that 10 YEARS LATER people are still talking about it like it was released yesterday...
Anyways, sorry if I typed something unclear (I'm tired as hell) and my bad for the rant lol...
BTW Russian this was the best possible debate against NotT I've ever read, and I've read about 18371-984719487127198371281-8371084 of them lol... so good job with that. One...
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Aug 08 '06
11:55 am PDT
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Good review (Reply to this comment)
by renodante
I feel the same way about this song, i love it. it's well written, it's got some really good, spot-on points, but the amount of history that is skewed, and the assumptions that are based on revisionism and outright mythology wreck the song's overall credibility.
the blatant homophobia doesn't help either ('white people are the first gays type thing going on). also, much modern scientific research into the origin of white people points to a genetic mutation that occured AMONG africans that had already migrated out of africa. the idea that a few albino africans popped up in africa, were promptly kicked out, and then went around in tiny packs reproducing in the north only to come back later with a rascist vengeance is totally unsupported.
also, according to him, africans exiled the first white people because "albinism" was some kind of abombination to africans. well, wouldn't that make africans the first racists and whites the victims? luckily its most likely not true and we can be quite confident that rascism has been around in all cultures in one form or another for quite a long time.
also, in ras' scheme of things, where do asians come from?
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Aug 06 '06
12:05 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
Yeah I definitely feel you on that. I'm in the same boat. My father is Armenian (who are christians) and my Mom is Azerbaijani (basically Turks, so they are Muslim). Imagine the tension between those two groups of people, considering the Armenian genocide was completely in the hands of the Ottoman Turks. One reason we fled to America was because of the tension between the two groups, and so my family wasn't safe at all. But to this day both sides of my family argue regarding these cultural differences. I'm just the voice of reason in the middle of it all, haha.
Oh, and my bad, I had no idea about the Nigerian conflict, so that's why I thought Noah meant the Sudan. No violent conflict in the world should be ignored.
Peace
-Marat
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Jul 14 '06
2:47 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by balogun
Clearly he should have thought this through.
Yep, he should have. Sudan is the big story alright, but as a Nigerian, I cannot let Nigeria be left out since it has a share in the ethnic and religious conflicts ravaging the continent. I've had friends lose relatives due to clashes between Muslims and Christians in the northern part of the country. And as a product of two ethnic groups (Dad is Yoruba, Mom is Ibo), the latter groups did attempt to split from Nigeria and form its own republic in 1967-70 (Biafra) which cost more than a million lives, and the aftermath still creates tension to this very day, even between both sides of my family.
Ras Kass, and so many of these so-called socially conscious rappers choose not to be "conscious" of these things. Ignorance is bliss for them, I guess.
Dayo a.k.a. the Balogun
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Jul 14 '06
9:10 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
Hey thanks alot, man!
I'm not sure that racism has been used as a justification, because who would leaders need a justification for? I think whoever shows racism really is racist, otherwise they wouldnt waste their time with it.
Yes, you are absolutely correct that Ras Kass didn't talk about many other different conflicts that also claimed many lives. Holocaust might have been a good point in his favor because it was white people doing the killing, but yes, the Armenians are definitely up there (I'm Armenian, so naturally I've heard all there is about this). But also...why not talk about massacres in which it was black people committing the murders? You mentioned Nigeria but I think you meant Sudan, because that whole Darfur conflict is where the big issue with a modern-day genocide is. Also, can't forget Rwanda. Clearly he should have thought this through.
peace
-M
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Jul 13 '06
9:45 pm PDT
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Re: Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by noahdabomb3
Outstanding reveiw. You really did justice to this song that I have heard much about, but never actually heard. (Its not in one music store in America and it is expensive as hell on the internet.)
I would also like to agree with your last on all powerful civilizations or cruel. Also, I controversially think that leaders of civilizations although very crazy like Hitler usually aren't racist, but instead greedy and power hungry. They all use racism as a justification for cruelty because people naturally want to fight those who are different anyway.
On a seperate note, after reading this songs' lyrics was convinced that we eat turkey on Thanksgiving to represent Spain killing Moors from Turkey. Thanks for setting that straight.
Also, to finish this comment, the whole song concept in general is racist before getting into specifics as the 'threat' in the songs title is white people and the song is directed to blacks. He did not talk about human threats to the Jews or Armenians who faced some of the worst genocides in history. He did not focus on how Muslims and traditional religion Africans are being slaughtered in Nigeria by each other. He did not talk about the crusades.
In general, Ras Kass, like 90% of political rappers is a biased racist ignorant jerk.
Thanks for the great review
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Jul 13 '06
7:42 pm PDT
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Re: Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by aesopfable
Marat this was an insiteful and amazing read I loved every moment of it. Your right the song has a lot of faults and inaccuracies in it take '"Quoting German philosopher Schopenhauer "Every white man is a faded or a bleached one"'. Ras used this in completely the wrong context...Schopenhauer was actually talking about the souls of humans and the colour of ones soul..nothing to do with race. So Ras uses a lot of evidence in the song and twists it around. However at the same time I love the song, the idea, the concept and the effort. Its jaw dropping. Plus at the end of the day no one can REALLY truely know history..all we can do is read and books are biased our whole medium of source is biased so in that way we can never really be enlightened. But great stuff..great :)
Peace Aesop
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Jul 11 '06
7:55 pm PDT
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Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
But dude, think about it, would ANY OTHER race that would have had the advantages Europeans had just be more benevolent and peaceful? Come on now...
There is no such thing as a powerful empire that does not show violence or cruelty. It just doesn't happen. Yes white people did murder millions and have slavery, but it wasnt because THEY WERE WHITE.
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Jul 11 '06
2:25 pm PDT
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Re: First off... (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
I've read some stuff from Battuta last year in my history class, so I definitely do trust his historical account as a credible source. But I'm glad you still got my point and even to a degree believe it to be true.
Thank you for the long and enlightening comment! haha
-Marat
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Jul 11 '06
1:12 pm PDT
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First off... (Reply to this comment)
by balogun
...the Yoruba warlord himself bows before you in gratitude for your shout out, and for a well-written essay chockfull of knowledge. I just listened to "Nature of the Threat" the other day, and I was thinking to myself - Marat was right; I would have a FIELD DAY with this one. Glad to see you did it justice. To paraphrase a character from A Knight's Tale: You have weighed it, you have measured it, and you have found it wanting.
I would like to focus on something I read towards the end:
Hell, I’m sure natives of African empires would also see any white visitors as “lesser people”.
The Moroccan scholar and traveller, Ibn Battuta (1304-1377) had this to say about the Mandingo kingdom of Mali, then unarguably the mightiest state in Africa, and whose emperor had made an extravagant visit to the Middle East a few years before:
"The negroes possess some admirable qualities. They are seldom unjust, and have a greater abhorrence of injustice than any other people. Their sultan shows no mercy to anyone who is guilty of the least act of it. There is complete security in their country. Neither traveller nor inhabitant in it has anything to fear from robbers or men of violence. They do not confiscate the property of any white man [i.e. Middle Easterner] who dies in their country, even if it be uncounted wealth. On the contrary, they give it into the charge of some trustworthy person among the whites [i.e. Middle Easterners]."
This is a rare example of the view of an African of his fellow Africans in ancient or medieval times in writing, most particularly, a North African of his darker-skinned brethren south of the Sahara. I do not easily doubt for a second the possibility of superiority complex exhibited from black Africans, even with the scarcity of a literary tradition about their views, or their general passiveness throughout history as compared to other peoples (The Chinese more or less stayed within their continent for ages, yet regarded everyone outside their walls as "barbarians"). And I can see shades of it in prominent figures in African history. Dunama I of Kanem (an empire to the north of present-day Nigeria) was so snotty and pompous that his Egyptian hosts murdered him in 1150 by drowning. And who knows what Mansa Musa of Mali must have thought or said when he practically threw away gold in the streets of Cairo in 1324, being in a country that he knew was less mighty than his?
It's human nature to think you are better than someone else in one aspect or more. It could be something as seemingly insignificant as food seasoning ("Our soup is better because it is spicier!") - humans can take one thing and stretch it to the extreme.
I have no doubt in my mind that if the Malian empire had stretched towards Asia and Europe, or there had been more literary records, the racist behavior would have been more evident, just as the racialist theories of the West that grew with the periods of the Atlantic slave trade and imperialism.
Anyways, very interesting stuff. See what you did to me now - I'm figuratively spilling my guts here lol. Much props, Marat!
Peace,
Dayo a.k.a. the Balogun
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Jul 11 '06
12:54 pm PDT
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Re: etc. (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
hey, thanks alot for the comment.
I didn't mean to belittle the Christian faith, as I understand it's not easy to know Jesus Christ's actual Hebrew name, but I was meaning to point out what Ras Kass is trying to say. His real point with that is how people see God and Jesus as white, and accept his white, Latinized name. In actuality, he was a Jew by the name of Yoshua Ben Yosef. Finding this out might be a shock to alot of people who believe that Jesus is the white, bearded, long-haired fellow in paintings.
You're right about them just picking a date to be "the Birth of Christ". I read that they actually decided to choose it in December because that would make it close to two other important Holidays (The Jewish Hanukkah and The Winter Solstice). As for the Trinity, you're right as well, but I think what Ras meant was that the Council of Nicea was when this was finally decided, as for years there was dispute about the true nature of Jesus.
peace,
~M~
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Jul 11 '06
11:10 am PDT
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etc. (Reply to this comment)
by beekd91
While I can't say I'm a rap fan, let alone a Ras fan, I must say you did a great job, and you know far more history than I've ever learned (ok, I'm 14).
Also...as a Christian, I feel there's something must point out...you claimed that no one knows Jesus's Hebrew name...that's because the New Testament was translated into Greek and Latin originally. Of course the Greeks are gonna give him a Greek name. For the same reason, most American Christians don't call God 'Yahweh', they call Him God. It's just a matter of language.
As for 'splitting God into three'...according to the Scriptures, there were ALWAYS three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So there's another flaw with the guy's writing. As for Jesus's birthday being decided as the 25th...well, hey, no one knows the exact date, so I guess they just picked one. Although most theologians will say that it couldn't be in December-they were in a BARN for crying out loud. You'd freeze, especially before the days of A/C. But does it really matter? It's just a tradition. My belief is if God wanted us to celebrate the birth of His Son on a specific date, he would have given a specific date, as he did for some of the festivals in the Old Testament.
Gosh that was long...just wanted to make a few points. Although I must say that this was a thought-provoking writeup.
-Mike
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Jul 11 '06
7:00 am PDT
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... (Reply to this comment)
by pdtfromphxaz
Nah on the real though, you speak much truth. I agree about the bias, he gets heavy on that sh*t. But at the same time, white people took the racism much further by enslaving and murdering millions of people, but still, I'm feelin' ya. It could've been more effective if he would've delivered a more neutral POV.
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Jul 11 '06
2:08 am PDT
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Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
biter!
haha, nah just playin
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Jul 11 '06
12:37 am PDT
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... (Reply to this comment)
by pdtfromphxaz
I'ma have to steal this and paste it into my Soul on Ice review.
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Jul 10 '06
11:19 pm PDT
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Re: ... (Reply to this comment)
by russianraiderz
That Premo joint is a classic
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Jul 10 '06
11:03 pm PDT
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... (Reply to this comment)
by nasty01
Yeah, i'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say that I do not care for Ras Kass.... I liked the primo remix of goldenchyld... and thats about it.
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Jul 10 '06
10:59 pm PDT
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