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Re: Re: Fearful (Reply to this comment)
by quasar77
The Bible is more than a bunch of stories, it is about the greatest true story ever told, known as the gospel or “good news.” It is called the good news because it is the amazing story of God’s incredible love for man and the great lengths that God went through to redeem mankind through his Son, Jesus Christ. (See Romans 6:23 and John 3:16). The Bible can be PROVEN true because it is the only book that contains prophecy, or predicts the future. The Bible contains over 2000 specific prophecies in it in which most have come to pass over the years, written centuries beforehand. The most notably being Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 which was predicted to the date and year in the Bible. Never in the history of mankind has a people group been scattered throughout all the world, retained their original language, and have been brought back again to the land of their forefathers. If you cannot see God’s divine hand in that then you are ignoring the evidence. That is but one small example of the more than 2000 detailed and specific prophecies that have been predicted in the Bible. (For more information on this to those that are curious, please read the book, The Signature of God by Grant Jeffrey and check out this website as well: http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article7.htm)
Now, to everyone out there that is reading this and uncertain if God does exist, I will say this...
If you genuinely want to know, pray to Him and ask Him to reveal to you if He is real or not. If you really want to know, God will show you. He will not ignore a request like that. Look in His word, the Bible, as the source of knowledge about God and his ways. If you genuinely want to know, he will open your eyes and show you.
Furthermore, let me say this. The longer that I am a Christian the more that I realize one fact about all that I encounter in regards to discussing the existence of God. I have come to the realization that the real question is not to discuss or debate with people if God exists or not, but the real question is, “If God’s exists, would you want to know Him?”
There are those out there who will deny God’s existence with every fiber in their body, because if God does exist, then that would mean that they might have to change or that they will be accountable for their actions some day. They want to be the rulers of their own lives and do not want any one else to be in authority over them. In their pride and self-centeredness they desire to reject God and his love and authority. Sadly, they do not know the awesome relationship that they can have with their Creator, who loves them dearly, and they will be held accountable for their decision someday. Then there are those who genuinely do want to know, and are willing to humble themselves and search for answers. I guarantee you that if you search with all your heart, God will make himself known to you. He promises this in Jeremiah 29: 11-13, “For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”
Blessings to all of you as you genuinely search.
One additional website you may want to look at is: http://www.intouch.org/site/c.dhKHIXPKIuE/b.2713811/
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Mar 19 '08
4:01 am PDT
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Re: Re: Fearful (Reply to this comment)
by quasar77
The Bible is more than a bunch of stories, it is about the greatest true story ever told, known as the gospel or “good news.” It is called the good news because it is the amazing story of God’s incredible love for man and the great lengths that God went through to redeem mankind through his Son, Jesus Christ. (See Romans 6:23 and John 3:16). The Bible can be PROVEN true because it is the only book that contains prophecy, or predicts the future. The Bible contains over 2000 specific prophecies in it in which most have come to pass over the years, written centuries beforehand. The most notably being Israel becoming a nation again in 1948 which was predicted to the date and year in the Bible. Never in the history of mankind has a people group been scattered throughout all the world, retained their original language, and have been brought back again to the land of their forefathers. If you cannot see God’s divine hand in that then you are ignoring the evidence. That is but one small example of the more than 2000 detailed and specific prophecies that have been predicted in the Bible. (For more information on this to those that are curious, please read the book, The Signature of God by Grant Jeffrey and check out this website as well: http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article7.htm)
Now, to everyone out there that is reading this and uncertain if God does exist, I will say this...
If you genuinely want to know, pray to Him and ask Him to reveal to you if He is real or not. If you really want to know, God will show you. He will not ignore a request like that. Look in His word, the Bible, as the source of knowledge about God and his ways. If you genuinely want to know, he will open your eyes and show you.
Furthermore, let me say this. The longer that I am a Christian the more that I realize one fact about all that I encounter in regards to discussing the existence of God. I have come to the realization that the real question is not to discuss or debate with people if God exists or not, but the real question is, “If God’s exists, would you want to know Him?”
There are those out there who will deny God’s existence with every fiber in their body, because if God does exist, then that would mean that they might have to change or that they will be accountable for their actions some day. They want to be the rulers of their own lives and do not want any one else to be in authority over them. In their pride and self-centeredness they desire to reject God and his love and authority. Sadly, they do not know the awesome relationship that they can have with their Creator, who loves them dearly, and they will be held accountable for their decision someday. Then there are those who genuinely do want to know, and are willing to humble themselves and search for answers. I guarantee you that if you search with all your heart, God will make himself known to you. He promises this in Jeremiah 29: 11-13, “For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.”
Blessings to all of you as you genuinely search.
One additional website you may want to look at is: http://www.intouch.org/site/c.dhKHIXPKIuE/b.2713811/
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Mar 19 '08
4:01 am PDT
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Re: heretic? (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
Hi,
There is no such thing as a true follower because Jesus never trod this Earth, at least in a biblical sense.
Rated-R
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Nov 21 '07
10:01 am PST
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heretic? (Reply to this comment)
by grodenbarg
This is NOT the act of a true Christian believer. The crimes he committed is proof of this. History has proven that cults are started in this manner and they literally suck in people to follow their ill leads. True followers of Jesus do not take advantage of other people in any form, nor judge people directly. Forgive and let GOD handle it
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Nov 20 '07
7:16 am PST
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Re: Fearful (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
mrpaul77,
I give no respect to a religion that has slaughtered millions upon millions of people. Your God that is represented in the Old Testament is nothing but a bully. There is no love in a God who wants to kill to prove a point.
As for Kent Hovind, he is nothing more than a criminal. He has been ripping Christians off for a long time now.
The bible is nothing more than a bunch of stories. That's it! And you have become just another victim of this religion's brainwashing ways!
Lanny
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Nov 02 '07
6:05 am PDT
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Fearful (Reply to this comment)
by mrpaul77
I have to say after reading such a comment, it clarifies the fear that I have for the moral condition of the U.S.
I could sit here in my office and take pop shots, but I will refrain. Although, I will say your attitude toward Christians is nothing but rude, but yet not unexpected.
In the last days there will be scoffers, the bible prophesied of this kind of garbage many years ago. Believe if you choose, or choose not to-- that's up to you, unless you repent-- then Hell will be your eternal home. Laugh, and scoff now, -- one day every knee will bow. I pray that when or if it comes a time that your sorry for the judgment that you have placed on people who, by their biblical creed, set out to love and serve. And don't remind me of those who have failed along the way, and haven't upheld the word, trust me without repentance they have their place as well. As a Christian, I wouldn't want jail for you-- I don't want you to face judgment illprepared. As a Christian, I love you-- I despise your sin, as I have my own, I despise your attitude toward a man, who has dedicated his life toward service to God. Is he right about everything (NOPE), are you (NOPE) The bible says that we need to worry about the plank in our own eye, instead of the splinter in our brothers. Maybe we can all take a look at that, I pray that you-- and others who judge so harshly-- don't find themselves in such a state. God help us all (and he is real--don't be mistaken about that). I pray that your eyes are opened--and your heart breaks, in sorrow for your own terrible ways--- as I have.
God help you and me too.
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Nov 01 '07
7:59 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by humang
You do not seem to be an educated person. Read the comments. He says creator. Look it up in the dictionary.
"a person who grows or makes or invents things "
This actually means that your constitution that you worship, recognizes a greater creator, shouldn't you?
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Aug 18 '07
3:20 pm PDT
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Respond to Christianity should be a crime (Reply to this comment)
by humang
Once again this is not a matter of the truth. If you have no facts, and stories in the newspaper are definitely not regarded as facts, then it is always better to rather keep quiet. It is so funny how people can't wait for a Christian to do wrong and then hammer on their mistakes as they are supposed to be such "saints". Is it because in doing so the individual can make him/herself feel better about believing in nothing, evolution teaches that the world comes from nothing, but it is obvious that there is a greater force at work in the world than the great little nation of the united states of america. However, people don't want to admit that there is a GOD that they must obey and respect, so much so that, especially in the great little united states of america, fathers, school systems, any superior figures, are not respected or obeyed because of this fear of a GOD existing that will tell us what to do and how to live, and because of this we see a degrading nation, held together only by the power that a few of it's leaders hold in the world. The facts are that by looking at, especially the great little nation of the united states of america, that the world is not evolving, but rather degrading, maybe a reverse evolution. Now there's a new theory for you non believers of Christ, if you see evolution is actually busy going in reverse. If you look at the world today what will it evolve into. Why do we clean the streets and have a sewage system. Why not wait for it to evolve into something that will take itself away. Can't the reverse evolution we are experiencing actually rather be a GOD who is backing away from a world full of sinners and haters, take a close look at the great little nation of the united states of america when you think about it. One problem is that because of the reverse evolution theory people are getting dumber, and will believe anything, like the world and all around it came from nothing. The facts are that GOD is much greater than the great little nation of the united states of america and that HIS laws far outweigh the laws of that great little nation. But don't hate Christians to much, I’m praying for you critics. There are many facts indicating that Dr. Hovind did not on purpose, if in fact at all, do wrong against the great little nation. It is a fact that he was not fairly treated and judged in his case, but this is what the great little nation wanted, as he was hurting there ideal of making the people of the great little nation followers of a GREAT BIG GOD rather than the great little nation.
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Aug 18 '07
3:03 pm PDT
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Kent Hovind is a Patriot (Reply to this comment)
by dalep4
The comments by rated-r about Kent Hovind are wrong and completely misinformed. There is no federal law that says citizens of the US have to pay taxes on their wages. The IRS is an unconstitutional entity. Kent Hovind is patriot because he is not taking the easy road which will allow the IRS to continue to run rampant. He is standing up for his civil rights and for your civil rights. Don't be mad because Kent isn't paying taxes, BE MAD THAT THE IRS IS FORCING US TO PAY UNCONSTITUTIONAL TAXES. If you do any kind of research on this, you will come to agree with me. Kent Hovind is not only a Patriot but also a great Christian role model. Christians should be passionate about their beliefs and the truth. If Jesus was a nice moral guy that did everything the government of the day ordered of him, he would have never been crucified. Jesus was passionate about his message of truth and the Pharisees couldn't stand it because it undermined there power. Hovind is in a similar situation, the IRS can't stand losing their power that was never there’s in the first place.
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Jun 17 '07
11:10 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by awright33
Sadly, my experience is that universities are the most dogmatic and oppressive places in our society. This becomes progressively worse as they receive more and more funding from governments that demand a particular viewpoint.
Dr. Tim Ball, Chairman of the Natural Resources Stewardship Project
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Feb 05 '07
10:10 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by awright33
The Constitution does not directly say God or Jesus but it does talk about the government not interfering with organized religion. The Declaration of Independence does state that we are endowed by our Creator. I don't care how you liberals/agnostics/athiests try to spin that one, our Creator is God!
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Feb 05 '07
10:06 am PST
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Re: Re: Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
wright33,
Well well well,
The Constitution is filled with a Godly present. So, why don't you point out all those things to me now. I just do not see it. So, educate me on it. Give me the information please. I can guarantee that the Constitution of the United States of America doesn't mention God, nor Jesus.
So, you like to lie about our founding principles of government. Go ahead, and lie for God!
Lanny
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Feb 03 '07
1:35 pm PST
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Re: Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
devilock138 wrote: I find it somewhat hypocritical for someone to 'defend' the constitution as you do and yet comment that a certain religion should be a crime. You need to turn red and bow your head.
I must whole-heartedly agree. However, when I say Christianity should be criminalized, I do so using sarcasm, as in the idea Christians put forth and ignore separation of Church and State, I ignore it, in jest, just see if people like you are getting it.
devilock138 posted:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
devilovk138 wrote:
One of the charges:
"filing a false and frivolous lawsuit and complaints against the IRS"
Since you are Aethiestic you most likely worship government. Of course you are, like most fascist ignorant of the illegal function *of* your government. You just like when they crush someone you disagree with, regardless of how it effects the populous. The IRS is *not* part of the Federally established government. In the IRC, there are provisions that authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to appoint someone within the IRS to fill out tax forms *for you* if you don't do it. IRS agents cannot and will not sign your tax return under penalties of perjury. Its not their function to force us to pay, its their function to get us to agree on an amount *to* pay. If you go down to the IRS office and argue with them they'll knock off a percentage and try and agree on that. The IRS does what they do because we have always been taught that we are the ones who must swear under the penalties of perjury; therefore, they must be more powerful than we are.
I do not worship government at all. As you being some kind of know-it-all, you come to a dumb-founded conclusion. What illegal functions of the government are you refering to? Can you explain this? The government is set up with checks and balances, and the purpose of that is to make sure corruption doesn¡¯t go awry. Naturally, corruption manifests itself within groups of people everywhere. Now, there are laws written about tax penalties, and is written by the government you so much want to bash. IRS agents are empowered to enforce the law, tax code violations, if deemed to be the case. You do have a funny sense of what people do in this country. Anyways, Kent Hovind has violated the laws of the land, and did so in the name God. Not much going on there as far as morals are concerned.
devilock138 wrote: You see, young man, you are a willing slave. I happen to pay my taxes, not because I 'love' my country, but because I recognize the malevolent corruption of 'the government' (I don't claim it as 'my country').
I see taxes as a necessary activity to help protect the citizens from other citizens, and more importantly to protect us from harm from other outside deviated force. So, you recognize the corruption, but you feed it money, to help it. If you do not like the government¡¯s corruption, then stop paying taxes to support it.
devilock138 wrote:
And its not 'your' country either. At what point do *you* own the country? At no point. You never have. You never will. The Internal Revenue Service came into this country through something called the Brentwood Agreement. This Agreement allowed foreign entities to come into your country and forcibly collect money from us if we agreed that we owed them money. So, what the IRS has been doing is they get us to agree. They get us to self-assess a tax liability upon ourselves when in reality we should never do that.
I am beginning to understand your total ignorance.
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Feb 02 '07
2:17 pm PST
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Re: Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by awright33
America was founded on God centered Christian principles. It is not just me saying it, you should read this countries Constitution, God is mentioned all through it. Sorry atheists that's just the way it is. Atheism is for people with a lack of morals, who are scared to think that maybe they will be held responsible for their actions someday. It really doesn't matter to me if you don't believe God is real or not because we will all know someday when we die. Except I won't be one of those standing before God trying to explain why I didn't believe in Him. That's going to be a tough day for atheists and agnostics. Christians like Kent Hovind and I are just doing our duty to Christ, by spreading the truths found in scripture. It is up to you to accept or reject that Jesus died for your sins. If you reject it that's your choice but at least we've done our part. No one is trying to force Christianity on anyone. All I see is a bunch of atheists getting defensive because they feel convicted by their own consciences.
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Feb 01 '07
9:46 am PST
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Christianity should be a federal crime! (Reply to this comment)
by devilock138
I find it somewhat hypocritical for someone to 'defend' the constitution as you do and yet comment that a certain religion should be a crime. You need to turn red and bow your head.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
One of the charges:
"filing a false and frivolous lawsuit and complaints against the IRS"
Since you are Aethiestic you most likely worship government. Of course you are, like most fascist ignorant of the illegal function *of* your government. You just like when they crush someone you disagree with, regardless of how it effects the populous. The IRS is *not* part of the Federally established government. In the IRC, there are provisions that authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to appoint someone within the IRS to fill out tax forms *for you* if you don't do it. IRS agents cannot and will not sign your tax return under penalties of perjury. Its not their function to force us to pay, its their function to get us to agree on an amount *to* pay. If you go down to the IRS office and argue with them they'll knock off a percentage and try and agree on that. The IRS does what they do because we have always been taught that we are the ones who must swear under the penalties of perjury; therefore, they must be more powerful than we are.
You see, young man, you are a willing slave. I happen to pay my taxes, not because I 'love' my country, but because I recognize the malevolent corruption of 'the government' (I don't claim it as 'my country').
And its not 'your' country either. At what point do *you* own the country? At no point. You never have. You never will. The Internal Revenue Service came into this country through something called the Brentwood Agreement. This Agreement allowed foreign entities to come into your country and forcibly collect money from us if we agreed that we owed them money. So, what the IRS has been doing is they get us to agree. They get us to self-assess a tax liability upon ourselves when in reality we should never do that.
And the violations he's made have been of tax CODES not of tax LAWS. And the 13th Amendment itself is highly suspect since it never got the 3/4 votes of the states and made it through the congress on a unanimous vote because only THREE members of congress remained in session after everyone else went home for christmas. Scoff if you want; look it up.
Persons like you are why governments are able to continually crush the people it claims to serve. Thanks for your support of liberty. You hate a man, hate what he says, but don't care that a renegade, fascist monopoly of power is being set up around you.
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Jan 01 '07
7:47 pm PST
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. (Reply to this comment)
by asafono
The way you conduct this discussion and address polite and respectful concerns, rated-r, you give the other atheists like me (read my profile) a bad name. Bad form.
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Nov 28 '06
10:04 am PST
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One more thing... (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
I did forget to address this comment by you:
Again I’ve answer that. History, and the way Christians act toward Atheists and non-believers. It is truly repulsive!
I have to agree that there are many Christians that act inappropriately (verbal and physical attacks, etc.) toward atheists and non-believers and this behavior is repulsive. I do not condone such behavior. Instead of hating those who do not believe what I believe, I think it is more Christ-like to hate sin but love the sinner. The fact is, even from my perspective, everyone sins (breaks God’s rules), including me. And, yes, I even hate it when I myself sin. However, I do not hate the sinner. I love the sinner enough to tell them that they, too, can find God’s forgiveness by trusting in what Jesus did for them, plain and simple. And if they do not trust…I still love them and respect their decision not to trust. I think the Bible teaches that it is my responsibility as a Christian to live a life that reflects the love of Jesus and tell others of His love for them. It is not my responsibility to force anyone to believe or somehow punish them for not believing.
rjh4
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Aug 22 '06
10:40 am PDT
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Further Discussion... (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
In other words, you are battling the idea what the definition of the word Christian is, and not fact that the KKK are indeed Christians, or, for your sake, claimed Christians!
If the question is does the KKK claim to be Christian, I would certainly have to agree with you that they do. But I certainly see a difference in the statements that “the KKK are indeed Christians” and “the KKK are claimed Christians”. The statements do not mean the same thing. You have established that they are “claimed Christians” by providing the URL to their website. However, I do not think you have established that they are “indeed Christians”. You have defined “Christian” as:
A follower of the Holy Bible, in particularly the words of the Character called Jesus Christ! Hence the word Christian!
Given this definition, then, I would ask: Where is their biblical support for the idea of white supremacy? I know I could come up with Bible passages that would teach against such an idea. This idea of white supremacy seems to be a major focus of the KKK; certainly more of a focus than other teachings of the Bible, such as, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So if this is the major focus of the KKK, this major focus is not Biblical (and even against the Bible), and a Christian is one who follows the Bible, then I would conclude that they are not necessarily “indeed Christians” (at least according to your own definition above).
These people clearly use the bible to support their hatred. These people recruited in churches all over the south in the 1920s and such.
A lot of people use the Bible to support their hatred of other people. However, I know of nowhere in the Bible that actually teaches that we should hate others. I read my Bible plenty and I have not run across anything to support the idea that we should hate others. So…if one uses the Bible to support some behavior, such as hatred for others, that the Bible really doesn’t teach (in fact, I read it as saying we should love others), it seems to me that they are not really a follower of the Bible and not “indeed Christian” (again, at least according to your own definition above). The fact that the KKK recruited in churches would not change my analysis above in any way.
This is all why I think it would be foolish to reject the Bible and Christianity on the basis of the fact that there are groups that misinterpret it to support their own hatred of others.
Rjh4 said: Even given your definition, isn't that an evaluation that can only be made reasonably on an individual level since it is the individual that "believes in Jesus and what He has done for you", not the group?
Lanny said: So, the fact the bible says he died for all of our sins means nothing to you? How can you, as person, make claim to Jesus dying on the cross for an individual, and not all of mankind? I guess you don’t read your very own bible much!
I think if you would reread what I wrote you would see that I was not arguing that Jesus only died for individuals not everyone. Certainly the Bible teaches that Jesus died for all of our sins, mine, yours, and everyone else’s who ever lived. In other words, I agree that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind (and womankind, just so you do not misinterpret my use of “mankind” to be sexist in any way). All I was saying was that whether or not someone “believes” or “trust” in Jesus and what He did, is up to each individual. I trust in Jesus and what he did, therefore, I would define myself as a Christian. It seems as though you do not and, therefore, would not be a Christian. Yes it is true that churches and other groups, such as the KKK, are made of groups of people. However, if one defines Christian as one who “believes” or “trust” in Jesus and what He did, then I do not think it reasonable to view “groups” or “churches” and label them based on the group. I think one should look at the individuals because I think in every church there are those who really “believe” and “trust” and those that do not (those who “play” church). By the way, I think that there are many who “play” church and are not real believers and it is those that you have to be wary of. All of this is just more support for my position that it would be foolish to reject the Bible and Christianity on the basis of the fact that there are groups that misinterpret it to support their own hatred of others. I think this answers all your points about “groups”. If not, please let me know what I missed.
Ah, the good old true Christian ploy, well, how can you have a relationship with God or Jesus that you can never see, nor touch, nor hear, in any physical way?
Ploy? Ploy: n 1: an opening remark intended to secure an advantage for the speaker [syn: gambit] 2: a maneuver in a game or conversation. My comments were not intended as a ploy, just what I think. I’m not sure I can really provide an answer to you question in a manner that would be meaningful to you. I have come to realize that there is more to this life/world that merely those things that can be seen, touched, heard, or otherwise known in a physical way, or tested scientifically. If you are of the position that the only things that we need to deal with here are those things that can be seen, touched, heard, or otherwise known in a physical way, or tested scientifically, then anything else I would say would not convince you. I will say, though, that I know that one can have a relationship with God/Jesus because I have had one for the past 25+ years. (Yes, I am an old man (45)).
So, what is your excuse for believing in such an absurd idea such as God?
It is not an excuse and I do not think God is an “idea” (so as to even be able to be absurd) but I will explain a bit of how I came to believe. In high school, I did pretty well academically and I loved to argue (still do as you can see). Anyway, I thought I knew pretty much everything. I was raised in the Episcopal church but I didn’t really believe in God. I was not an atheist because even though I didn’t believe in God. I didn’t think it reasonable to say there was no God because that certainly could not be proven. One day, literally, when I was a freshman in college I looked around me and the complexity of this world and came to the conclusion that all of this just did not happen. There must have been a designer. I do not see this being any more unreasonable than accepting other logical circumstantial reasoning as courts do all the time. In other words, I do not think that one requires “scientific” evidence to conclude that there is a God. In fact, if that is the only evidence that one would accept, then I guess it would follow that they would be either agnostic or atheist, as I do not think the existence of God can be “scientifically” proven. Anyway, from there I came to believe in the Bible as the Word of God. We can discuss this more as time goes on, but I think that is enough for now on this topic.
Regarding religion, I think we agree on the idea that it is evil. (Again, I do not think true Christianity is a religion but I addressed that above.)
However, the one question that you really did not answer, to my satisfaction anyway, is: What is your basis for saying anything is “evil”? In other words, what is your standard for defining things as “evil”? The word “evil” at least to me in normal usage in conversation implies some moral standard of right and wrong. You see, I think there are absolute rights and wrongs such that if some behavior falls within the absolute wrong category, I can reasonably define it as “evil”. But, the clincher for me is that I rely on the Bible for what is right and wrong. As an atheist, what do you use as your standard of right and wrong? Is it only what Lanny thinks or is there some other “objective” standard?
You see, based on my standard, it is pretty easy to say that a lot of evil has been done in the name of Christianity. So I actually agree with you to this degree.
I don’t think I can further address the “evil” comments further without your definition so that I can understand your perspective.
Anyways, I am well educated in Mathematics and such. Yes, beyond a Bachelor’s degree. However, I need not prove to you anything about my credentials ‘cause what’s the point?
Fair enough. I happen to think that you cannot tell what a person knows or does not know about a subject based on their degree. One can certainly know much about science without having a degree in science and just because someone has even a PhD in some scientific field does not mean they are knowledgeable in science. (I have come to this conclusion over my 20+ years working in the area of intellectual property law, much of it working with PhDs.) I myself only have a BS in Chemical Engineering with my experience noted above.
Lastly (for this post anyway)…
Rjh4 said: I agree that the KKK is a terrorist group. However, it seems to me that their use of the term "Christian" is not the meaning we discussed earlier. It seems a better meaning for their use is "non Muslim, non Jew, etc." I think there are many who use the term "Christian" to refer to any who are not Muslim, Jewish, etc.
Lanny said: We haven’t had a discussion about the teaching of Christ, so how can you make such claim?
Your response does not appear to have anything to do with my statement because I did not even bring up the teaching of Christ. My only claim was that the KKK may be using the work “Christian” in a different way than you use the word.
That’s it for now. If I left anything out, let me know.
Rjh4
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Aug 22 '06
10:39 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: ? (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
It does!! Thanks. It will probably take me a while to address all of that, though. But I will try to do it in the next day or two.
rjh4
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Aug 21 '06
7:10 pm PDT
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Re: Re: ? (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
I hope that answers most of your questions!
Lanny
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Aug 21 '06
4:02 pm PDT
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Re: Re: ? (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
Regarding the KKK issue...it seems to me that before one can determine whether or not they are "Christian", one would have to define what is meant by the term. I know I have/use one definition of the word and that my definition would certainly not be the same as someone in the KKK. In other words, the KKK may call themselves "Christian" but are they really?
Okay, I do not see the difficulty in understanding what a Christian is. The main point is; you are sliding off the main point. In other words, you are battling the idea what the definition of the word Christian is, and not fact that the KKK are indeed Christians, or, for your sake, claimed Christians!
For example, I could call myself a Muslim and do horrible things and say I am doing them because I am Muslim but would that make me Muslim...I don't think so. So I would argue that what the KKK does is not "Christian" even though they say they are.
In any case, you can make a claim that nobody is a Christian, or a Muslim. However, the KKK is a well documented terrorist group that follows the Holy Bible! I cannot see where you can make the claim that these people are not Christians!
How do you define "Christian"?
A follower of the Holy Bible, in particularly the words of the Character called Jesus Christ! Hence the word Christian!
Also, you seem to slam Hovind for his lack of scientific credentials. What are yours that qualify you as an authority on scientific matters?
Hovind is slimeball that doesn’t have the academic credentials to back up any of his claims. When someone like Hovind says the Lock Ness Monster is real, don’t you think that his credibility goes right out the window? Anyways, I am well educated in Mathematics and such. Yes, beyond a Bachelor’s degree. However, I need not prove to you anything about my credentials ‘cause what’s the point?
Maybe that was too many issues. I interested in discussing the issues with you, one point at a time. I don't even care if you pick the point. I thought the KKK was a good place to start as that is where you wanted to start.
I’m guessing you going to say I still didn’t answer your questions!
Actually, your definition of "Christian", i.e., one who "believes in Jesus and what He has done for you" (assuming you mean "trusting" as "believing" and dying on the cross as the punishment for my sins as the "what He has done for you") is accurate and I would not argue that. (Please forgive the fact that I was mixing pronoun usage above.)
I think I’ve answered that!
However, I lose you when you say KKK members are followers of Christ...bottom line.
These people clearly use the bible to support their hatred. These people recruited in churches all over the south in the 1920s and such.
Even given your definition, isn't that an evaluation that can only be made reasonably on an individual level since it is the individual that "believes in Jesus and what He has done for you", not the group?
So, the fact the bible says he died for all of our sins means nothing to you? How can you, as person, make claim to Jesus dying on the cross for an individual, and not all of mankind? I guess you don’t read your very own bible much!
Regarding your statement that "the bottom line is religion is the ultimate evil on this planet", I have heard the pastor of the church I attend (a Southern Baptist church) say pretty much the same thing...and I agree.
Okay, we agree on something!
But true Christianity as defined by you is not a religion, it is really a relationship with Jesus/God.
Ah, the good old true Christian ploy, well, how can you have a relationship with God or Jesus that you can never see, nor touch, nor hear, in any physical way? By the way, if you read the Old Testament, and some of the New Testament, I think you’ll find a God who is the absolute definition of Evil!
Lastly, if you do not want to continue this discussion, just say so and I will no longer respond to you, at least directly.
Well, I’m responding to you!
I read that you retired... :)
We have resolved that one!
Anyway, I don't know where you get that "Christian principles are based on groups". That comes out of the blue without any support.
Again, Jesus died on the cross for all people’s sins, according to the Bible. You have churches all over the place, and that is a bunch of groups. I find it funny that you even argue this point at all.
I also sense a red herring...yours. It seems you want to make Christianity a bad thing because of certain groups which call themselves Christian.
I find it ironic that you used the word groups! Anyways, history has shown how brutal Christians were. It is blatantly obvious that mainstream Christianity and other religions are, without a doubt, evil!
Christianity is not a bad thing because of these groups. I think I have established that. If there are other reasons you think it is bad we could discuss them, but I think you get nowhere with your arguments regarding the KKK (at least with me).
Christianity is bad thing on multiple levels! These groups we refer to is only one point!
I agree that the KKK is a terrorist group. However, it seems to me that their use of the term "Christian" is not the meaning we discussed earlier. It seems a better meaning for their use is "non Muslim, non Jew, etc." I think there are many who use the term "Christian" to refer to any who are not Muslim, Jewish, etc.
We haven’t had a discussion about the teaching of Christ, so how can you make such claim?
You seem to want to take examples of horrible behavior from people who call themselves Christian as your excuse for not being one yourself or at least not believing in God. If this is the case, I do not think it is a wise analysis.
There are so many problems with religion in general that it’s not even funny. So, what is your excuse for believing in such an absurd idea such as God? My analysis comes from many directions, yet we’re only discussing just one of them!
Another thing that interests me. I understand from other things here that you are an atheist. If this is true, on what basis do you argue that "religion is the ultimate evil on this planet"? On what basis as an atheist can you reasonably describe some behavior as "evil"?
Again I’ve answer that. History, and the way Christians act toward Atheists and non-believers. It is truly repulsive!
From your standpoint, isn't there just behavior accepted by society at a particular point in time and behavior not accepted by society?
Is that all inclusive, or from a Christian perspective?
(Maybe this is your definition of evil?) I would very much like to be enlightened on this point.
History tells me how evil religion is, people’s actions and treatment towards other proves even further.
Lastly, for this post anyway, you never did say what your scientific background is. Is it an oversight or do you just not want me to know? If you think it none of my business, just let me know and I will drop the issue.
I’ve answered that one above!
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Aug 21 '06
4:01 pm PDT
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Re: ? (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
In normal communication that I know of, when someone says: "What is this? An angry Christian?" they are implying that they think the person they are referring to is angry. If one is really questioning, not implying, it seems to me they would just ask "Are you angry?"
Anyway, I already answered the question.
But you still have not answered many of my questions. Yes, I already knew you were an atheist but I do not know how you would answer the questions I asked. So until you answer the questions, I guess I have no analysis to do.
rjh4
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Aug 21 '06
2:59 pm PDT
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Re: Retired? (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
Regarding your retirement, you are correct. I really did only skim over the thing that said you retired.
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Aug 21 '06
2:54 pm PDT
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I am an atheist (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
There you go! You can analyze it now. But I thought you knew that!
Lanny
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Aug 21 '06
2:51 pm PDT
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? (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
Apparently you didn't see the question marks after the first two sentences!
Lanny
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Aug 21 '06
2:49 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
Lanny,
What makes you think I am/was angry? And why would I be angry anyway? Because someone I do not even know thinks I am stupid for what I believe? That would be ridiculous. I am/was not angry. I was merely asking questions to try to understand where you are coming from. Why do you keep ignoring my questions? Are you afraid to put your belief system out there for someone to analyze?
rjh4
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Aug 21 '06
2:46 pm PDT
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Retired? (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
Ah, you didn't read the whole thing did you?
Lanny
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Aug 21 '06
2:37 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
Christianity is the ultimate Evil based on history and the way stupid Christians treat others! Millions upon millions of people slaughtered in the name of Christianity!
Lanny
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Aug 21 '06
2:35 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm (Reply to this comment)
by rated-r
What's this? An angry Christian? Well, Christianity is based on groups because you wouldn't have churches all over the place if was based on individualism! Duh! Apparently you do not understand that Christianity is Evil by their actions of the past, and now! Christianity is nothing but Evil! Telling people lies about the history of mankind! Also, telling people that they are bad, 'cause the Evil Bible says so! You don't even know what a red herring is! KKK is a Christian group! Or Group of a bunch of individuals that are Christians! It doesn't matter, groups or individuals! The focus is Christianity, the bible if you will, nothing else. This garbage you presented about what you think is Christianity is bull! Christianity is Evil!
Lanny
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Aug 21 '06
2:32 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmm (Reply to this comment)
by rjh4
Lanny,
I read that you retired... :)
Anyway, I don't know where you get that "Christian principles are based on groups". That comes out of the blue without any support.
I also sense a red herring...yours. It seems you want to make Christianity a bad thing because of certain groups which call themselves Christian. Christianity is not a bad thing because of these groups. I think I have established that. If there are other reasons you think it is bad we could discuss them, but I think you get nowhere with your arguments regarding the KKK (at least with me).
I agree that the KKK is a terrorist group. However, it seems to me that their use of the term "Christian" is not the meaning we discussed earlier. It seems a better meaning for their use is "non Muslim, non Jew, etc." I think there are many who use the term "Christian" to refer to any who are not Muslim, Jewish, etc.
You seem to want to take examples of horrible behavior from people who call themselves Christian as your excuse for not being one yourself or at least not believing in God. If this is the case, I do not think it is a wise analysis.
Another thing that interests me. I understand from other things here that you are an atheist. If this is true, on what basis do you argue that "religion is the ultimate evil on this planet"? On what basis as an atheist can you reasonably describe some behavior as "evil"? From your standpoint, isn't there just behavior accepted by society at a particular point in time and behavior not accepted by society? (Maybe this is your definition of evil?) I would very much like to be enlightened on this point.
Lastly, for this post anyway, you never did say what your scientific background is. Is it an oversight or do you just not want me to know? If you think it none of my business, just let me know and I will drop the issue.
Thanks.
rjh4
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Aug 21 '06
2:22 pm PDT
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