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Re: kerosene heaters part deux (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Swatterhead,
Thanks for taking time to join Epinions, just to leave your views on the good things about kerosene heaters.
Although you seem to have skimmed the U.S. CPSC website. Here are their warnings on these heaters.
"Kerosene Heaters"
You should be able to respond "yes" to the following safety statements.
1. Only 1-K kerosene is used and it is bought from a dealer who can certify that the product is 1-K kerosene.
2. The heater is placed out of the path of traffic areas such as doorways and hallways.
3. Kerosene is stored outdoors, and out of the reach of children in a tightly sealed, preferably blue plastic or metal container, labeled "kerosene."
4. No attempt is to be made to move the heater if flare-up (flames outside the heater cabinet) occurs. The fire department is called immediately.
5. The heater is used in well ventilated rooms.
6. The heater is turned off while sleeping and is never left operating unattended.
7. The heater is placed at least three feet away from anything that might catch fire such as clothing, furniture, curtains, etc.
Recommendations:
Check with your local fire marshal regarding local and state codes and regulations for using a kerosene heater.
NEVER USE GASOLINE. Even small amounts of gasoline mixed with kerosene can increase the risk of fire.
Use properly labeled containers. It reduces the likelihood of mistaking gasoline for kerosene.
Place heater so it will not be knocked over or trap you in case of fire.
Use l-K kerosene because.grades other than l-K contain much more sulfur and will increase sulfur dioxide emissions, posing a possible health problem. If you buy kerosene from a gasoline station make sure you and/or the attendant are using the kerosene pump, not the gasoline pump.
Never fill the heater while it is operating. Always refuel the heater outdoors to prevent spillage on floors and rugs which could later result in fire ignition.
Keep the room in which the heater operates ventilated (e.g. door open or the window ajar). This will prevent an indoor air pollution problem and minimize health problems. Kerosene heaters are not usually vented.
Keep flammable liquids and fabrics away from an open flame.
Never try to move the heater or try to smother the flames with a rug or a blanket if a flare-up occurs. Activate the manual shut-off switch and call the fire department. Moving the heater may increase the height of the flames and cause leakage resulting in personal injury.
As for UL listings. You are writing to someone who has worked with UL in their laboratories in Northbrook, Ill. (on the north side of Chicago)
While UL listings may give some consumers a warm and fuzzy feeling, their contractually agreed, legal obligations are limited to the actual cost of the certification testing process, should they make a mistake in the test program. They are completely off the hook if the manufacturer makes a mistake in the production process or if the consumer makes a mistake, as noted above.
I don't want to pry your kerosene heaters from your burnt dead hands.
Regards,
The gasman
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May 27 '09
8:36 am PDT
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kerosene heaters part deux (Reply to this comment)
by swatterhead
i have two kerosene heaters.. muahahaha (evil laugh). c'mon gas man just relax a little bit.
you make it sound as if kerosene heaters is the "asbestos" of this generation..
i notice only old timers or farmers (country folk) use kerosene heater on a regular basis-(from what i observe at the pumping stations.)
everyone else only uses them in an emergency.
we'll be ok.
kerosene heaters forever!!! from my burned up dead hands!!!
you will never take away my kerosene heater!!! fossil fuels forever.
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Mar 21 '09
7:32 am PDT
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Re: enjoyed your quote (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thank you Bobbo,
I appreciate your support and while I do not strive to have sound bites or specific quotes within my reviews, I do hope people read them indepth.
My perspectives on this issue do come from a lifetime of working in the testing, development, approval and safety certification aspects of fuel burning appliances. I can support my ascertians with technical data and nationally recognized, supporting organizations who agree.
I do thank you for your positive comments and would like to see the site you reference. I am not vain, but I do like to think my common sense message is getting out there.
I appreciate your support in a very worthy and sensible cause.
Sincerely yours,
The Gasman
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Nov 08 '07
2:06 pm PST
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enjoyed your quote (Reply to this comment)
by bobbo428
I enjoyed your quote
Do you believe someone who has no profit motive for steering you away from vent free fireplaces and kerosene heaters and towards vented products, or those who have printed up expensive, glossy brochures to promote their dubious wares to you?
It made my weekly top 100 quote chart in September and is currently in the top 40. Good job!
Bobbo428
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Nov 07 '07
1:47 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks Dime,
Yes indeed, that is a new hat.
They must just give those things away to just about anyone these days. Still not sure what the benefits of it are, other than covering my ears. I do think that it should come with a mandatory title and you should be addressing me as Your excellency TR Gasman or something along those lines.
Thanks for stopping by. I know I need to write something soon, it's just all of these added responsibilities that go with the offices of the TR's.
Best regards,
Gasman
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Jun 12 '07
9:55 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by dimeuhday
Hey is that hat new. that TR ONE. i must of never noticed it if its not new. But if it is BIG CONGRATS. and if its old.. BIG OLD CONGRATS! lol.
can't wait fer yer next peice mate'. :)
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Jun 07 '07
10:38 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks Dime,
Appreciate you stopping by.
Regards,
Gasman
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May 25 '07
8:48 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by dimeuhday
lol. MOST GREAT... Its also my initals. I hit the MG by accident. and got too lazy to revise it. so i followed up with an oops. It's my trademark. Laziness. lol.
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May 24 '07
8:43 am PDT
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Re: :) (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks for taking time to comment Barefooter.
Regards,
Gasman
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May 18 '07
12:05 pm PDT
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:) (Reply to this comment)
by Barefooter
Very informative!
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May 10 '07
7:36 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
I appreciate the thought dimeuhday. What does MG stand for? Mostly good?
You're doing pretty okay for yourself, if you're living up to your pen name here.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 25 '07
5:42 am PDT
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Re: Another excellent expose. (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks for the review from a chemistry point of view, I really do appreciate your input. No tongue in my cheek. It is more a problem with the way I worded it. What I meant to convey was that the "total emissions of NOX" from a typical gas fireplace were thought to be relatively harmless. Typically between 35 and 60 PPM. Now, and over the past several years, medical evidence suggests even this low level, continuous exposure over time can cause respiratory problems. I didn't want to get into parts per million and make this any more confusing than I made it. As I said, I was trying to take the complication factor out of it.
My tongue is often planted firmly between my teeth and my cheek, but this issue is serious and one I hope is taken seriously. You might be surprised how often industry races ahead of the science it was founded on, in pursuit of the almighty buck and I can think of a few prime examples. This is but one of them. To explain how this happened would make for another long mostly boring review here.
As for the acidic comments, again, I was not trying to exaggerate the levels being discharged in the average vent free application. There are also traces of sulphur dioxide in most kerosene, natural gas and propane flue gases which condense to make sulphuric acid with a PH of about 3.5 for gas and as low as 2 for fuel oil.
Neither of these acids are considered healthy for humans to inhale, but the levels are a variable that can be debated both ways. So it is not argued that NOX or SOX is good for people, but rather, what levels they can tolerate.
My stand is and always will be zero, as an acceptable and an achievable level, with vented appliances.
Again, thanks for taking time to comment and pointing out the shortcomings in my writing skills. I hope the main thrust of the message gets through to the masses.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 25 '07
5:38 am PDT
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Another excellent expose. (Reply to this comment)
by asafono
Gas man,
what I write below does not detract from your MH review, but the chemistry minor in me could not hold it...
NOX... was once thought to be harmless, since almost 80% of the air we breathe is composed of nitrogen and when you combine nitrogen rich air (79% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen)
I think it has been known that these nitrogen oxides are poisonous since at least early 20th century.
However, science is catching up with industry...
... you are writing this with the tongue firmly in cheek, right?
and have found that being an oxide, when it comes in contact with moisture, it is mildly acidic (nitric acid).
Mildly? More so than battery acid, and when combined with the latter, will dissolve gold (aqua regia.)
Again, does not make what you write about any less important - keep up the good work.
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Apr 24 '07
10:43 am PDT
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Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by dimeuhday
exactamundo! ey! MH MH MH MH MH MH MH MH MH MH MG oops. ;)
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Apr 24 '07
10:27 am PDT
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Re: who'd a thunk it? (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Tazzy,
Welcome to Epinions.
The real purpose of this review is to point out the dangers of vent free, or unvented gas appliances and the risks of constantly inhaling the fumes they produce. Most gas fires, as you Brits call them are safe, as most are vented up a chimney or through the wall. Although, at the present time, the UK still permits certain types of vent free gas heaters, so this warning applies to you and yours.
Thanks for the comment.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 24 '07
4:38 am PDT
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who'd a thunk it? (Reply to this comment)
by tazzywazzy
i never thought about health risks for things like gas fires...they are so popular!
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Apr 23 '07
7:56 am PDT
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Re: Another excellent report from Gasman (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Alan,
A world wide ban would be a dream come true, but I'll take one state at a time and then start taking on the U.K. and Europe.
Incidentally, your suggestion to make these appliances safe with "proper" interlocking CO and O2 sensors has been attempted before and it was a dismal failure. Reliable and affordable sensor technology has a long way to go before such a thing might work.
Thanks for taking time to comment, I appreciate the support.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 22 '07
4:57 am PDT
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Another excellent report from Gasman (Reply to this comment)
by alwillia
Sums up all the reasons why these things should be banned world wide. If there are health issues as discussed and doubts made clear, then i can't imagine anyone who is aware of such hazards wanting to buy such a dangerous device
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Apr 22 '07
4:19 am PDT
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Re: Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Howard,
I appreciate the kind comments, as always.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 20 '07
2:04 pm PDT
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Thanks for providing (Reply to this comment)
by Howard_Creech
lots of important information - this review should be required reading for homeowners.
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Apr 20 '07
5:51 am PDT
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Re: Thanks (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Sue,
I understand radon has been found at various levels in every state across the US and every province of Canada. Glad to hear you tested okay. The long term tests are the most accurate, so you should be in good shape. Those three test tests are just a snapshot of what may be entering the home throughout the year.
Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 20 '07
4:42 am PDT
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Thanks (Reply to this comment)
by elzora,  in Home and Garden
for this informative review. The state of Alaska made me test my home for radon. I had to hang this device up for 9 months and send it back to them for testing. Luckily we are fine.
Lots to be concerned about here.
Sue
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Apr 19 '07
9:33 pm PDT
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