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A Great Review, and Important too... (Reply to this comment)
by talyseon
...I work in a residential facility that is required by law to have a CO detector. We inadvertantly ended up with two due to a misdirected memo. It was due to be picked up the next day, when it went off.
I evacuated my clients, and called the proper powers that be; we had a major problem.
A bigger problem was the CO detector we had been counting on all year did NOTHING. Needless to say, I put a note on the new one threatening grievous bodily harm to anyone who removed it. Now our organization has moved to the Consumer Reports recommended brand, and has a kit to test them quarterly.
Talyseon.
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Feb 26 '08
11:10 pm PST
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Problems with the vent-free fireplaces (Reply to this comment)
by amroll
I have been exposed to this type of fireplace for less than a year and I am having problems with my breathing already. At first I thought it was just a chest cold but it kept coming back and getting worse. Asthma symptoms. I just wonder how many other unsuspecting souls are suffering these kind of symptoms as well and have not figured it out? This house was a spec house and I was not told the fireplace was not vented. It appeared to be vented and looked like it had a flue but after inspecting it many months later we realized it was not vented. I was worried then and have been opening the windows as much as possible even in the dead of winter. Prior to realizing a problem we had been using the fireplace only in the early morning and evening for a few hours at a time. Even then after a short time of being on the second floor hallway would be smelly, at least to me, and the air seems somewhat thicker if that makes sense. I sensed something was wrong even if other family members didn't think much of it. I think this product should absolutely be banned. Even when the fireplace is not on the pilot light still sends fumes into the room when it should be going up a chimney.
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Feb 03 '08
9:53 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Well.. (Reply to this comment)
by dimeuhday
Outside I use hot pockets to keep my hands toasty. I also keep them in my pockets. They last looong. --those hand warmer things---
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Jan 10 '08
8:02 am PST
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Re: Excellent advice from the Gasman (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Alan,
Thanks for reading and leaving a comment. Of course I don't mind if you help to, spread the word, so to speak. *L* The more dealers and consumers we can convert to the religion of vented products the more souls we can save.
I'm very much in danger of turning into a preacher over these issues.
Regards,
The Gasman
Amen
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Dec 16 '07
5:23 am PST
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Excellent advice from the Gasman (Reply to this comment)
by alwillia
Another good article from the Gasman. Hope you don't mind me adding this link to two other forums in the UK being ARGI and DIYnot. These forums are also worried about flueless or ventless. Keep up the good work Gasman
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Dec 16 '07
4:12 am PST
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Waiting for the other shoe to drop... (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Debray,
You will have to excuse my stunned silence, "no one", ever comes back to say what you just said below.
In which case, I suppose I owe you an apology for some of my previous comments. I thought I was dealing with another employee of a vent free fireplace manufacturer. They often join this site just to bait and challenge me. They never come up with answers to many of my questions though.
This topic is not just something I feel strongly about, it has become a kind of a mission. While I can not stop people from using them, I can draw attention to the dangers that the Vent Free Gas Products Alliance would like consumers to ignore.
Thank you for your most recent comment.
Regards,
Gasman
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Dec 10 '07
11:40 am PST
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Re: Re: Love our vent-free fireplace (Reply to this comment)
by debray79
Points well taken. I did read your other reviews and quite frankly am impressed.
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Dec 10 '07
7:45 am PST
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Re: Love our vent-free fireplace (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Debray
Before you completely embarrass yourself, with another misinformed and outraged response, why don't you do a lot more research, and not at GAMA's Vent Free Gas Products Alliance website. Unless you work there. Then ask yourself or ask the authorities in California, Wisconsin, NYC and Canada why they have banned all vent-free appliances.
In short don't waste my time with uninformed theories, like, "I would think that these products would be off the market due to lawsuits..." because, yes, I would tend to agree with you.
A good place for you to start with your research would be by reading the rest of my many reviews on this subject, dating back on this site to 2001. However, I can point you to other articles I have written dating back to 1995.
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Dec 07 '07
7:17 am PST
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Yes Debray, In Order To Get Your Attention, "More Children Need to Die"... (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Debray,
What you said was; I would think if these are as deadly as your posts indicate they would be off the market by now due to lawsuits. Obviously, more people have been killed or injured by these products and thousands have experienced severe soot damages to their homes and lungs, based on the reported numbers.
Last year a 14 year old girl died with her pet dog shortly after a vent free gas fireplace was installed in her home. Her parents returned home to find her dead with the dog curled up beside her. The fireplace had not been tested by the installer after installation and had left the factory with a manifold pressure that was set at more than double the specified pressure. (Likely accidently set up for propane with natural gas orifices and fuel.) A case of triple failure by the manufacturer's assembly line, Quality control procedures and the installing contractor who failed to double check what should have been an obvious problem with the flame.
Furthermore the U.S. CPSC has stated repeated that between 300 and 600 people are killed annually from CO poisoning due to supplementary space heaters, including vented and vent-free gas heaters. More than 10,000 people each year are treated at emergency centers for unintentional CO poisoning, directly linked to vented and unvented gas heaters. Their statistics, unfortunately, do not break down the numbers by vented or unvented type. A representative of the CPSC has written an open letter to that effect.
With these facts in mind, how can you honestly say that, "No one has ever died from a vent-free fireplace."
Your comments were not presented as someone with reservations about vent-free, who wanted my input, not with a heading like, "Love our vent-free fireplace"
As someone who has fought against vent-free high input (40,000 Btu/H) yellow flame fireplaces and even the lower Btu, blue flame ventless heaters for more than a dozen years, I know when I am being baited by someone who does not have a clue. Even so, I responded that I sincerely hope you continue to love your vent free fireplace and I meant that. Just don't come here spewing unsubstantiated rubbish, the GAMA based, Vent Free Gas Products Alliance does that well enough by themselves.
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Dec 07 '07
7:03 am PST
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A FEW MORE KIDS NEED TO DIE!!?? (Reply to this comment)
by debray79
Gasman replied to my post; "I guess as you suggest, a few more kids need to die before they are taken off the market completely." I NEVER SAID THAT OR SUGGESTED IT, NOR SHOULD YOU! You should be very careful about publishing false statements like this. No one has ever died from a vent-free fireplace. I looked for a forum such as yours because I am beginning to have some reservations about vent free appliances even though I have never had a problem.. I was simply putting the question of lawsuits out there and wanted your input. I did not expect to be misquoted and insulted.
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Dec 07 '07
6:21 am PST
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Re: I saw an ad (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Peggy,
The vent free alliance publish a lot of rubbish and it's amazing that they still get away with it.
I'm afraid there will always be people like the previous comment who believe what they want to believe and won't cry the blues until disaster strikes close to home.
Glad to here you're taking precautions against CO even though you have a vented unit. You won't regret being careful and aware of potential problems. Unlike my friend DeBray there.
Thanks for taking time to comment.
Regards,
Gasman
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Dec 05 '07
4:13 pm PST
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Re: Love our vent-free fireplace (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks for signing up with Epinions just to leave your enlightened views on vent free fireplaces. They continue to be banned in California, Wisconsin, NYC, and Canada, as well as a number of other countries around the world.
I guess as you suggest, a few more kids need to die before they are taken off the market completely.
I sincerely hope you continue to love your vent free fireplace.
Regards,
Gasman
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Dec 05 '07
4:09 pm PST
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I saw an ad (Reply to this comment)
by pilarzmom
for a vent-free fireplace assuring the consumer it was a safe solution! Ha! Not!
I did check my fireplace after first reading your reviews and was relieved to see that it was vented. I still use precautions nonethelss, with Co detectors on every level.
Peggy
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Dec 05 '07
3:07 pm PST
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Love our vent-free fireplace (Reply to this comment)
by debray79
We have had a vent-free fireplace for 10 years. it heats the parlor in our old (and drafty) Victorian home. We have it checked each year when we have our furnace serviced. Never a problem. I would think if these are as deadly as your posts indicate they would be off the market by now due to lawsuits.
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Dec 05 '07
9:23 am PST
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Re: You are not "full o' gaz" (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hello Lou,
Thank you for taking time to read and comment on this issue. I'm glad it's convinced you to steer clear of them, I'll take one convert at a time.
Regards,
Gasman
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Nov 30 '07
5:16 am PST
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You are not "full o' gaz" (Reply to this comment)
by louisdrinkingt
Well, you have convinced me..
to not even look at one.
Thanks.
lou.
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Nov 29 '07
8:16 pm PST
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Re: Thank you. (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Kris,
The marketing hype behind these products is so strong, they make it easy to overlook the obvious deficiencies and potential problems. After all, they want to sell you one, not have you worrying about your health or the health and welfare of your family and I like to include the unborn babies and pets in that statement, as they are affected worse by vent free fireplaces.
Pets and unborn babies can't speak for themselves and likely wouldn't understand why we, so-called, intelligent humans are subjecting ourselves and them to dangerous elements in the very air that sustains us.
Thanks for taking time to read and leave your comment.
Regards,
Gasman
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Nov 29 '07
2:46 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Well.. (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Well thank you Melissa,
I was wondering where you've been lately, I must have too much time on my hands.
At last someone, who appreciates the properties of gas. ;)
Stay hot,
(the opposite of stay cool at this time of year :-)
Gasman
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Nov 29 '07
2:38 pm PST
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Thank you. (Reply to this comment)
by Trawma,  in Home and Garden
We had actually considered a ventless gas fireplace. Not sure where my head was--I wouldn't burn propane, kerosene, or anything else in an enclosed area without proper venting, yet I never thought twice about ventless gas.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate your effort here.
Kris
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Nov 29 '07
1:30 pm PST
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Re: Re: Well.. (Reply to this comment)
by dimeuhday
All of them are MH my gassy gassy friend.
;)
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Nov 29 '07
10:17 am PST
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Re: Well.. (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
If it is so, that you I did impress
I can die now happy my Lyoness.
;)
Hmmm...not wanting to brag or anything, but, I have been told that a few of my posts, over the past 6 years, have been helpful to people.
Thanks for reading and taking time to comment Summer.
Stay well,
Gasman
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Nov 28 '07
11:05 am PST
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Well.. (Reply to this comment)
by lyoness913
I am impressed. You've written an informative review that will actually help people.
Hmmm..
;)
Summer
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Nov 28 '07
10:33 am PST
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Re: For the heck of me (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Rudi,
I've been asking myself the same questions for well over a decade. Saving money on your energy/heating costs plays a big part in it. Ease of installation and again saving money on installation with no vent or chimney required. The units themselves are little less money too.
When you couple saving money with the lies and half truths in the glossy brochures that sell them, it becomes a pretty sexy product. If only there was a way to strip away the make-up, most consumers, with an ounce of intelligence, would see them for what they really are, ugly products that are dangerous to your health and more importantly, to your childrens' health and welfare. It's very much like an adult who smokes, passing out cigarettes to his entire family and lighting them up for them.
See, you got me started again, time to climb down off the soapbox.
Thanks for the comments and the support.
Regards,
The Gasman
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Nov 28 '07
8:31 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: I made him read it (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Jamie,
Great to hear. A)That I don't have to look over my shoulder, *S* and B) That he's taking it seriously.
Not wanting to sound fanatical but, try to recall my warnings that, even with CO alarms, you need to ensure plenty of ventilation air to the home when the fireplace is running, keep up regular maintenance, have it tuned, watch for changes and check those alarms regularly to see if they're still working.
I know I'm repeating myself, but many people think the CO alarm is a replacement for regular maintenance.
Best wishes,
The Gasman
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Nov 28 '07
8:22 am PST
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For the heck of me (Reply to this comment)
by rudixeno, in Home and Garden
I can't understand why the problems of these types of fireplaces aren't obvious to everyone.
You've done a great service here. Keep up the good work.
Rudi
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Nov 28 '07
7:14 am PST
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Re: Re: I made him read it (Reply to this comment)
by mismamac
LOL - don't worry, no gunning on the part of the hubby. In fact he has really taken seriously what you've written about vent-free heaters/gas logs. So seriously in fact, he plans to install wired CO detectors in our living room ceiling and on near our daughter's bedroom.
Thanks again =)
Jamie
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Nov 26 '07
9:01 pm PST
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Re: I made him read it (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Jamie,
Thanks for the comment. I hope your husband isn't out gunning for me now. *L*
I appreciate the support and the kind words. You won't regret not using the vent free beast.
Regards,
Gasman
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Nov 25 '07
5:38 am PST
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Re: Amen (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hello Nagels,
That was mighty nice of you to say. I appreciate the high volume of traffic that this site gets and the number of direct responses I receive to my reviews via email.
As one with a fair amount of Irish blood in me, you know my stand on the almighty potato.
Regards,
Gasman
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Nov 25 '07
5:36 am PST
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Re: We had one of those gas log (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Howard,
I appreciate you taking time to leave your thoughts. I know you are right about people not realizing the dangers, or else they wouldn't still be sold throughout the country by the thousands. That is the depressing part about crusading against something that people have already bought and believe the hype about saving money, but not that they may be slowly killing their family.
I'll take one convert at a time, but I would prefer 1,000 at a time. Unfortunately, more people will have to die before this issue gets the attention of the press that it deserves.
Regards,
Gasman
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Nov 25 '07
5:32 am PST
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Re: Great Job (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks for the comment Smallmouth, I just got back this morning from a great time in a little town in PA with old friends of mine. They all use vented fireplaces. *L*
Regards,
Gasman
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Nov 25 '07
5:28 am PST
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