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Re: is there a good source for parts for Majestic MBUC36 insert? (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi THH,
The MBUC36 is a fairly old manufacturered wood firebox from Majestic. Up until their parent company bankruptcy in 2007 (CFM Corp), you had a good chance of getting fan kits for that model, which were optional and rarely taken by builders for cost reasons. The fan kit for that model was simply a double pancake style (propeller type) similar to those used in computers. They were not very powerful and actually did very little to circulate the heat, as there were no turning baffles for airflow. The fans were mounted in the lower compartment on the left and right sides.
Your best bet is to simply install a ceiling fan to disperse the heat in the room or perhaps look for a tangential scoll type fan that can be mounted on an L bracket, add an on/off/rheostat for fan speed and you could rig up something that nnot only works better, but is pretty cost effective. I've seen fan kits with all of the above accessories selling for about $125.00 on sale at Lowe's around this time of year for their wood stoves. The kits could be slightly modified to work with your firebox. At Lowe's they generally start discounting these things after Christmas to clear them out for spring merchandise. So try to pick one up for 50% off in January and you'll be ahead of the game.
Best to double check the physical height of that lower compartment, before purchasing the fan kit.
Incidentally, if you're not too comfortable with mounting the kit and wiring it up, safely, best to hire an electrician.
Good luck,
Regards,
The Gasman
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Nov 17 '11
6:38 am PST
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is there a good source for parts for Majestic MBUC36 insert? (Reply to this comment)
by thehoaryhound
Really great article. Thanks so much. I will need to read this more thoroughly, along with the comments, to really absorb it all.
In the meantime, I'm sitting here at my condo, looking at stripped down Majestic MBUC 36.
I'd love to add a blower with speed control, and some glass doors in front, and thus make this into a really nice heat source.
Can anyone recommend a good source for these parts...especially if used (to save some $$)?
Thanks again,
TheHoaryHound
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Nov 13 '11
9:36 pm PST
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Re: CFM and Vermont Grilles (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Mike,
Sorry for the delayed response, but don't hold your breath for that list of dealers willing to step up to the plate and honor Vermont's lifetime warranty.
Regards,
The Gasman
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Oct 20 '10
10:03 am PDT
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CFM and Vermont Grilles (Reply to this comment)
by mikelsmo
I'd also be interested in seeing the list of dealers who will support the limited lifetime warranty for Vermont Grilles. We bought one three years ago, three years after the recall was issued and we have had a burner failure that we cannot fix. Replacement parts don't fit and now with a rusted out burner tube, we are leaking gas even with the valve closed.
Who would have thought you'd have to check consumer recalls before buying a product that was actively being marketed.
Who would have thought someone would sell a gas fired grille that might have a catastrophic gas leak problem three years after a recall was issued. They should be strung up.
If anyone knows where you can buy replacement parts or if there is as company or dealer that is providing warranty service I'd like to find out who they are.
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Aug 23 '10
5:17 pm PDT
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Re: hey gasman!!! (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hey Castro,
Feel free to email me at: the_gas_man@hotmail.com
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Jun 18 '10
7:54 am PDT
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hey gasman!!! (Reply to this comment)
by castrojamieson
interesting article. Need to email the_gasman if possible.
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May 10 '10
4:42 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Hearthdude,
Thanks for the input, much of what you say I think I covered in this review too and I agree.
However, I think surely you jest with your reference to a group of monkies running the company better than Larry. As I'm sure you knew that Larry hired the last of the performing Monkees to represent CFM at the Salt Lake City hearth Expo in 2006. That whole year the company ran the slogan, "I'm a Believer" and Mickey Dolenz was probably paid more than your whole year's salary for that one time engagement. Just one more example of the stupidity than ran rampant with Larry and his Monkee management team.
Thanks again, whether your comment was meant as a pun or not, it made me laugh.
Monessen have much debris to pick through with this aquisition, some of it will be valuable and some just debris. If they can cherry pick it properly, they could do well.
Regards,
The Gasman
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Nov 30 '08
7:12 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by hearthdude
Hey gas man just read your article...you must have worked there! To me, CFM was a company that happened to be in the right place at the right time and made a lot of the right moves.I worked for CFM myself but, seeing the writing on the wall, left long before the teachers and Larry were able to 'work their magic'! While I was nowhere near the top of the heap (just below middle management) it was pretty obvious to me what was going on there. Most upper management had been promoted to a level far exceeding their level of competence and like a lot of companies, cronyism ran rampant.
While the union drive and the departure of Jim Lutes were large factors in the downturn, the very beginning of the end for this company was the day that Heinz Reiger announced his retirement. Heinz was a stickler for product improvement and quality. I believe in his farewell speech he said words to the effect of 'corporate America has nothing to offer me and I have nothing to offer it' (my apologies to Heinz). Heinz was the only one strong enough to stand up to Colin, and his departure allowed Colin to do whatever he wanted unchallenged. Instaflame fireplaces quickly fell from being an innovative leader in industry technology to just another follower. While other manufacturers continued to make improvements to their product line, R&D at CFM continued to pump out different versions of the same old, now-tired fireboxes. I'm sure Heinz must shake his head at how easily they drove his company into the ground. At least he got out when the getting was good.
The purchase of Harris Systems (another loser) in Skokie, Illinois gave Colin access to the big box stores. What a great, innovative idea...selling vent free products direct to consumers in the U.S. so they can take them home and install them in their homes where their loved ones sleep! Boy, hard to foresee any legal issues there. And then imagine how happy the Canadian distributors are when they see the exact same electric fireplaces being offered to the public at Home Depot, only below dealer cost! The Vermont Castings brand should have remained in the specialty hearth channel. Anything in the retail channel should have been branded under Majestic and there should have been an obvious, quantifiable difference between them.
It remains to be seen what happens with Monessen Hearth running them, but in my opinion a group of monkies would do a better job than Larry and his friends.
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Nov 29 '08
8:34 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
I also just thought of another coincidence. About two years before Temco went into bankruptcy, they acquired the assets of GSW Heating Products Division, which included patents and technology that neither CFM nor Monessen were probably even aware of, because GSW and Temco never had an opportunity to exploit it.
So now Monessen Hearth has their own technology, in addition to CFM/Insta-flame, Vermont Castings, Dutchwest, Century, Majestic Products, GSW Heating Products, Temco, The Great Outdoors, Martin Industries, and a few others that I don't even fully recall but know exist, so that makes them the single greatest collector of loser companies in the history of the hearth industry.
For some reason, I do not believe they want to be known in this way.
Best regards,
Gasman
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Oct 28 '08
5:33 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
It is also interesting when people with questionable motives come to this site to say things like "customers can continue to trust the VC and Majestic names."
So to sum up what you are telling us, after the now bankrupt CFM acquired the ailing Majestic Products in the 90's and then moved most of their production to the bankrupt Temco factory in Mexicali, Mexico (having acquired Temco in bankruptcy court for a bargain basement price) and then gone bankrupt themselves, Monessen were able to pick the now bankrupt CFM up for a song, and authorize the use of the Majestic name on bankrupt Martin Industries products. Therefore, we can all continue to trust the Majestic brand name because it is not a Majestic product at all, but rather a Martin Industries product.
I'm getting a headache here.
Let's see, CFM, Majestic, Vermont Castings Temco, and Martin Industries are all bankrupt companies, now held by Monessen Hearth Products who can now legally use any or all of these brand names on any product they desire. CFM, Temco and Martin all went bankrupt with cheap unreliable, products that carried high warranty costs and all of that contributed to their domino-like financial collapse. Now, consumers should trust the Majestic brand name because it is a Martin product??? Your logic escapes me.
Since you seem to know so much about it, would you care to share the names of these many benevolent distributors who are willing to cover the lifetime warranty obligations of CFM, Vermont Castings and Majestic Products? The few I have talked to have already moved on to new sources of product and have no interest in hearing about CFM's warranty problems. Frankly, I don't blame them.
I don't think the world would have lost anything with CFM, Temco and Martin Industries wiped out and nothing but a footnote in industrial history.
If Monessen has the good sense to leave Vermont Castings operations to the people who know it best in Bethel, Vermont, they can make a return on their acquisition. If they continue to out source cheaper ductile castings, from China, to continuously lower production costs, (as CFM was doing) they will eventually ruin the VC name as well.
I was taking a "wait and see", approach to the products coming out of these companies. If what you said below is true, forget it. The last thing this world needs are Martin Industries products labeled Majestic. There's nothing Majestic about that.
Looking forward to that list of benevolent CFM distributors.
Regards,
The Gasman
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Oct 28 '08
6:22 am PDT
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Re: Re: Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by duflinkus
Actually, Vermont Castings products are flying off the shelves this year, especially the wood burning appliances. Majestic is holding it's own as Monessen is giving the brand name to the products in it's former Martin line. Having actually viewed for former Martin products, I can tell you that the appearance and quality are even better!
Many distributors are choosing to honor warranty claims on product sold prior to January 2008. The reserve required is less than 1% of gross sales, so customers can continue to trust the VC and Majestic names.
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Oct 27 '08
12:16 pm PDT
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Re: Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Cfm Corp, the parent company of Majestic, that is now under bankruptcy protection has been acquired by Monessan Hearth Products. Aside from shutting down their customer support hotlines and advising that CFM are not longer supporting warranty claims issued against Majestic, Vermont Castings or any of the other brands under CFM, they are not saying whether or not these companies will be continuing to operate.
I imagine they are looking for ways to integrate the company's products into their own production lines and I can not imagine them shutting down a company that was as successful and had brand recognition such as Vermont Castings.
One wood stove you might want to look at for sales is the CFM-Century, EPA approved steel wood stoves. Only if you get it in a fire sale, so to speak. A good product, but questionable aftermarket support. It was also a cost effective alternative to a high end Vermont Castings wood stove.
Majestic made wood burning fireplaces rather than heater rated wood stoves. The only exception was a monster they developed a couple of years ago that is under recall and likely contributed (in small part) to their demise.
Unless you can get a good price on one, I wouldn't touch a CFM product at the moment
Regards
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Oct 17 '08
6:59 am PDT
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Interesting that (Reply to this comment)
by Horswispr
Magestic is one of the brands I've come across as I stumble through research on wood stoves. Have they survived OK?
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Oct 14 '08
8:27 pm PDT
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Re: A Common Story: (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Alex,
I might have argued vehmonently with you about your comments a few months ago and I was still in denial a few short weeks ago, but now I fear your assessment may not be too far off the mark.
The bright side is, these periods of financial readjustment are usually good for the overall health of the systems. Flushing out the old and ushering in the new.
If only we could learn to learn from our past mistakes.
Regards,
The Gasman
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Oct 06 '08
9:51 am PDT
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A Common Story: (Reply to this comment)
by macresarf1
The last five or six months have shown us how your story is a microcosm of the American economy, and soon the World.
Western business, American business, in particular, has grown over time by a process of running good ideas into economic empires, which devour each other until they collapse upon themselves. Then, the financial interests reconsolidate, concentrating power in fewer and fewer mega-entities.
We all (well, 90 % of us) are going to be in for a very rough five years.
Thank you, gas man, for an intimate thumbnail sketch of what has been, what is, and what will be, I suppose, a common story of greedy incompetence.
[The rot has now permeated all of our institutions.]
[Macresarf1]
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Oct 05 '08
9:00 pm PDT
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Re: This saga should be manditory MBA course reading! (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hi Grillman,
Thanks for taking time to comment and for the confirmation of the accuracy of my information from an insider's point of view. I'm glad to hear you managed to get out of CFM with a decent buy-out package before their house of cards collapsed. The CFM saga is something I've followed closely since their very beginnings. I even met Heinz a few times at The Canadian Gas Association (CGA) where in the late 80's and early 90's he was always working on the development of new products, new concepts and even helping to develop new standards for gas hearth products.
I can appreciate that the unionization of CFM would have upset Colin, as I understand he treated employees like family in the early years and virtually no one ever quit.
I never understood their decision to supply the big box stores at the expense of dealer loyalty. I know they gained hundreds of millions in sales, but they simultaneously lost grass roots support from their dealers throughout North America. CFM's losses were HeatNGlo and Lennox Hearth gains and as I said in this review, the hundreds of millions in sales were at a very high cost to the company's bottom line.
I've always said I would much rather operate a company that does 10 million in sales and earns 8% to the bottom line, with about 50 employees, than run a mammoth company doing 700 million in sales (with over 2400 employees) and losing money, year after year.
I do recall the dropping morale at CFM when Jim left the company, and Colin began eliminating the little perks like profit sharing with his non-unionized employees. Anyone who knew the company back then would also recall the rising exodus of long term employees.
I believe Colin set the company on the path to failure with his first major deal a with mass merchandising company. However, Robinette compounded the problems with his weird approach and would have met with more success had he recognized the problem with mass merchants, extracted CFM from those kinds of deals and focussed on regaining the trust and support of Hearth dealers across the country. He needed to shrink the company or right-size it (as they liked to call it) and return the business focus to those things that CFM did well. They shrunk the company's sales alright, but failed to re-focus on their strengths and on quickly becoming profitable again.
By themselves, Vermont Castings, Majestic Products or Century Stoves can be run profitably with their existing product lines, so the Ontario Teacher's will probably spin them off and recover some of their investment. The loss won't even show up on their radar screen as a blip.
I agree that Robinette and his group of assembled turnaround experts came across as arrogant and incompetent. They were all even heard to say that they knew nothing about the hearth industry.
As for BCE employee's, from what I've read recently, their prayers are being answered.
Thanks again for your take on this and good luck with whatever new career path you embark upon.
Regards,
The Gasman
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May 27 '08
6:24 am PDT
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This saga should be manditory MBA course reading! (Reply to this comment)
by grillman62
Gasman:I came across your article quite by accident, and I'm amazed by your accuracy. I should know, as I was a CFM middle manager for nearly 10 years (it almost seems like you could have been as well). I came aboard during the rapid growth years, and have to admit it was both the most fun, and demanding time of my career.
I think two key factors which seemed to change Colin were when the Mississauga plant became unionized, and when Jim Lutes (president) left. Colin never seemed to be as hands on after. He is a classic example of a successful entrepreneur who struggles in a public company environment. The far flung expansions, with the duplication of efforts occurring without realistic central controls and policies, led to everything unraveling for Colin.
However, as you clearly and correctly stated, Colin's shortcomings pale to those of the Teachers' and Larry Robinette. I'm sure the CFM buyout will go down as the biggest failure for the Teachers'. I was lucky, I could see the proverbial handwriting, and I "persuaded" management to give me a buyout which was completed before the recent protection filings. I feel sorry for the dedicated ones who stayed until the end to help wrap up design/manufacturing in Canada, then get screwed out of their well earned severances. But then again, it was very normal behavior for Robinette and his group of arrogant, incompetent cronies. Makes me wonder how the Teachers' Pension Fund became so successful. One last thought, to the employees of Bell Canada....pray their buyout falls through!
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May 26 '08
5:27 pm PDT
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Re: hey there g_man... (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks for taking time to comment Tom,
However, I sometimes wonder how many people truly appreciate how this "sad story" impacts them in North America.
* Sure we want less expensive goods, but do we want "CHEAP" goods?
* Sure we want gas grills that are almost as big as our cars, but don't we want them to last almost as long as our cars?
* Sure we want to help third world countries get on their feet, but do we want to be dependent upon them for critical goods?
As billions of dollars are currently being pumped across the ocean to China and millions of jobs are being dismissed, isn't it time for our governments to take a hard look into the near future and plan for mass unemployment?
That old time businessman was CFM 15 years ago, they had a record of sharing profits with their employees and one of the lowest employee turnovers in the industry. People just never quit CFM.
Tom, companies like CFM needed leaders with clear vision about two years ago. It may be too late now.
Thanks for the comments.
Best Regards,
The Gasman
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May 02 '08
9:53 pm PDT
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hey there g_man... (Reply to this comment)
by sleeper54
...
A sad story told well.
What ever happened to the businessman that was content to be a member of the community and share his good 'fortune' with his friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens..??
Is every businessman, every politician so far gone that they can not see the truth in this story, in ten thousand others just like it..??
Damn, our country, Canada, the whole free world could sure use some leaders with character and clear vision right now...
Very nicely said...
...tom...
P.S. Always nice to see rates by you on the site and read the (too..!!) rare thoughts you share with us...
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May 01 '08
5:45 pm PDT
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Re: Congress and Parliment.... (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
I would like to see these so-called turnaround experts forced pay back everything they received as they squandered away millions and ruined so many lives. These guys and women were even up front with everyone they met, about not knowing anything about the industry they were involved in. That didn't stop them from firing competent middle managers within the company and replacing them with incompetent friends and past associates.
Thanks for the comment,
Regards,
Gasman
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May 01 '08
6:59 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: A Similar Story (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Hey Ginzo,
Ya should have bought shares in Lowe's (ticker low) when they were at $21 I told you they were going to go to at least $25 and it only took a month. This was another case of buying "low" and selling high.
Regards,
Gasman
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May 01 '08
6:54 am PDT
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Re: Re: A Similar Story (Reply to this comment)
by ginzo
You've got a company up there I'm interested in buying stock.PTPE (ticker)
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Apr 30 '08
2:14 pm PDT
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Congress and Parliment.... (Reply to this comment)
by talyseon
...should impose a 50% windfall tax on golden parachutes.
Talyseon.
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Apr 30 '08
10:28 am PDT
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Re: A Similar Story (Reply to this comment)
by the_gas_man
Thanks for taking time to comment John.
I think what bothers me most about this case is that, everyone who knew this company could see this coming, except those who were being paid the big bucks to turn it around.
Now potentially thousands of North Americans are out of work and they ride off into the sunset with a golden hand shake.
Regards,
Gasman
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Apr 30 '08
6:05 am PDT
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A Similar Story (Reply to this comment)
by coldsteel7
About who loses out on the investment when a company buckles...Excelsior Henderson...I lost a few dollars there...not as much as some.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting story. I think living comfortably on 10 million shouldn't be hard. I would make the old obvious joke that this equals about 100,000 American...but the tables have turned.
John.
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Apr 29 '08
3:18 pm PDT
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