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by snik1
Hello Brian,
Since holy_diver decided to say his piece on Palin, and having read this many times now, I decided I'd say mine too (I don't disagree with him that much):
Just a year ago if you asked me who Sarah Palin was I'd be confused and honestly say I didn't know. Around 51 weeks ago, I turned on the TV and saw a strange woman making a speech about being John McCain's vice-presidential nominee and thanking Hillary Clinton for trailblazing the road for accepted female politicians. After learning about all her political positions, I have to say I think Palin would be worse than Bush. Her exact words about global warming were "I'm not one who would attribute it to being manmade" and that, in politician talk, pretty much means "Is it real? Yeah. But you're on your own." However, another time she did say "John and I agree we have to do something about it" on the campaign trail. Reassuring! Not to mention the wanting to drill for oil and gas in Alaska...I honestly thought your point (whether here or somewhere else) I read about people who believed God put all species on Earth would be the most zealous in trying to save them all was a fascinating, excellent point - one I've used often in arguments/discussions about Palin and her religiousness. Whatever she wants to say about her love for God, she's not exactly a modern day Noah (as I've said to others.) And the fact that she doesn't seem to think energy/climate change go hand in hand and the fact that she's arguing with top-shelf scientists about global warming killing off animals living in Alaska's habitat just makes me think she's even more dumb.
It also bothers me how she seems to think Alaska is, if not the only one, the most important state in the union (even if she is no longer Governor.) Not to mention her BS about how Iraq is "God's task", which is sickening, her opinions on homosexuality (I am a Christian who hasn't fully decided on the gay marriage issue, although I lean towards supporting it currently. I don't know yet though - regardless, it bothers me that Republicans like her [not all of them] treat gays like nonexistant things and that their children should be sheltered instead of being exposed to reality.) Another thing I'm unsure on - gun control, reading the statistics of the people killed by guns and how she doesn't seem to favor/have talked about any sort of control, is messed up. Even abortion, which I am against, I can't say I agree on in regards to her...I personally believe the woman should choose if raped, especially if it is incestuous. Reading an interview with Seth MacFarlane, he said he was worried too many people would think he would not 'fix the economy' by November 2012 and elect Sarah Palin, which in his words and in truth, "would take the country to sh*t." I also don't think abstinence sex education would forever stop high school students from having sex (although to be fair, Joe Biden supports this as well. But he, according to an article I recently read, has no plans on running in 2016 assuming Obama serves two full terms considering his age.) So those are some of the reasons I hate her.
She does not have the experience at all, or the right positions on the issues, to run the U.S. I read something that said being teens are living in a world getting gradually more tolerant of homosexuality and the threat of global warming, they'd make the right decisions in the voting booth. But since this woman's here and there are people I know who disagree with both, I don't know.
Excellent article (I also did look at the 1,000,000 Strong Against Sarah Palin Facebook group I'm in for statistics, but I did know these already as I've researched her positions.)
Peace
Kyle aka snik1
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Aug 21 '09
7:09 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Oh Yeah (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
Having experienced both cultures, it was the south in which I was, rather viciously, physically assaulted (with blunt melee weapons) for my agnostic philosophies and atheistic logic
Wow. In Boston i claimed, comfortably and truthfully, to be agnostic; down here i settle for claiming to be Jewish, which is true in a cultural/heritage sense and which people accept. I wouldn't have felt in _physical_ danger while doubting God's existence, but yow.
In terms of being too fair to Palin, thank you for the feedback. I'd respond in 3 ways.
1) The most important: if you're trying to persuade someone who starts off disagreeing with you, it's a good idea to acknowledge the places where they have a good point. None of the praise i give Palin is insincere as far as it goes.
2) I think she gets a lot, i mean A LOT, of extra criticism because she's a woman. John Boehner, Tom DeLay, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilly -- all of them are vicious liars as much as Palin, all of them have been more powerful than she (well, she and McCain did lose), none of them have gotten 1/10 the crap for it that she does. I'm not saying any individual Palin critic, e.g. you, is sexist -- but enough sexists are setting the tone that even the well-intentioned are driven to follow along.
3) That said, the Obama Death Panel Will Kill My Down's Syndrome Baby comments last week made her irredeemable forever in my eyes.
cheers,
- Brian
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Aug 13 '09
6:26 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Oh Yeah (Reply to this comment)
by holy_diver
"He said the American South was a _far_ more oppressively religious place than Iran."
Yeah, I can second that claim. Having experienced both cultures, it was the south in which I was, rather viciously, physically assaulted (with blunt melee weapons) for my agnostic philosophies and atheistic logic - Probably part of the reason I fear the American south more than the Middle East (and I’m an Irish-American Caucazoid!)
And to think, many American southerners think there intolerance is exaggerated by the "liberal" media (HAH!). I can think of few cultures less tolerant or more ethnocentric than the American "Bible-belt". However, I am going to try and give the south the benefit of the doubt, and assume that the above-mentioned assailants were unusual exceptions - truly ignorant and pitiable creatures, incapable of coming to grips with the fact that the world isn't black and white, good and evil. It is more of a gray stew, in which conflicting codes of morality debate, at times violently, with each other for relevance and dominance.
Oh, yeah, and to make this comment a little more relevant to the piece you’ve written Brain, I’ll say that, in an effort to be balanced, I almost think you were too sympathetic with Palin. I say, she was a walking manikin, devoid of critical thought. I would almost further that by saying she was incredibly corrupt, despite the self-righteous morality flail she swings above her empty head. But then again, she clearly lacks the ability to put her own decisions into perspective, so to call her corrupt would imply that she consciously deceived her constituent - this supposes that she has the intelligence to do such a thing. Every portion of my gut tells me that that is impossible.
In short, she is absolutely one of the most blatantly brain-dead politicians I have ever seen get puked out from the right-wing fringe. And don’t get me wrong, there are times when I agree with the right-wing on issues such as the reduction of government spending, gun control, and immigration (emphasis on sometimes). But the fact that a politician like Palin was even in the race for the White House has me seriously researching financial methods to leave America for good. I don’t like knowing that a single dime of my pay-check would go to a government that is at least in part run by a morally hypocritical corporate tool like Palin, who has repeatedly failed to exhibit even an elementary-school level understanding of the economy and geography. I fear politicians like her will become a right-wing trend in the future (why promote intelligent, functioning federal politicians when your ideology seeks the withering of said government?). It’s just a matter of time before we have a Palin-type in the White House.
Call me radical, but I want to make sure I am not living in America on that day! Although, by that point, it’s doubtful that the America I once knew and loved will even exist. By then, the culture will be defined almost entirely by multilateral corporate brand-names and the billionaires that dominate them, rather than artists, entertainers and enlightened thinkers (or “un-American, godless freedom-haters”, for all of you who see merit in Palin’s “elitist fighting” anti-intellectualism).
God, am I glad we dodged the Sarah Palin bullet. Let’s hope she doesn’t resurface later on in presidential politics - I wouldn’t put it past the “bible-belt”, or the south to actually vote her into power ( - shutters -)
If my rant came off as overly passionate and insulting, I can't say that I'm sorry. I've never loathed a politician as much as I have Palin. She embodies that which destroyed everything I loved about America.
- Diver
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Aug 08 '09
8:16 am PDT
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Re: Oh Yeah (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
Something I forgot to mention was your take on the founding Fathers. I just read a book that said the same thing. The main founding fathers, if anything were cool toward organized religion. Some were Deists and some were outright Athiests
*nods* Exactly. Yet somehow they were morally serious, thoughtful, and not generally prone to mass public orgies with unwilling goats. It's not a contradiction, people!
The country is much more religious now than it was then.
In Boston, i knew an Iranian journalist (and atheist) who'd lived for several years in the American South. He said the American South was a _far_ more oppressively religious place than Iran. I've never been to Iran, and i live in a liberal part of the South, but i can at least consider his statement plausible.
It came out on the news just Wednesday that she thought Africa was a country and basically didn't know the countries of the Middle East
In fairness, the people who leaked that information were people with every motivation to cover their own butts by telling nasty stories about Sarah Palin. So there's no reason to assume those stories are true. Then again, neither are the stories Palin told (and still tells) about herself, McCain, and the Democrats, so i'm a little short on sympathy.
i sold my soul to rock and roll,
- Brian
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Apr 02 '09
12:52 am PDT
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Re: You didn't make mention... (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
...that she cut the funding of Covenant House Alaska -- a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live -- by over 20% earlier in the same year that her own underage daughter got knocked up
I didn't mention that it was the same year, or name the program, but no, i brought it up.
it seems pretty unpatriotic to me that her husband is part of a movement to cede Alaska from the U.S
Well, as you point out, Alaska receives a massive subsidy from the mainland's taxpayers. Volunteering to give that up is not only patriotic, but self-sacrificing.
Finally, I agree 100% that so-called "macho" hunters should arm themselves with nothing but a knife Rambo-style and take on their prey fairly.
Thanks, i'm glad not to be alone with that opinion. Also, when they're back from their knife hunts, they should honor Stallone's memory by becoming kindergarten teachers, and (if male) by becoming pregnant in a not-particularly-successful attempt at mainstream comedy.
for fair taxes and fair fights,
- Brian
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Apr 02 '09
12:46 am PDT
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Re: Hopefully she can go back... (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
the country does not need a Sarah Palin to make things even worse than they are
Ah, but the magic of voting asks a more pertinent question: does the country _want_ her? If it does, there will be even larger things wrong than that.
with too much perspective,
- Brian
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Apr 02 '09
12:39 am PDT
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Re: Family (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
What happened to the thug marrying her knocked-up daughter Bristol
He apparently decided fatherhood was best conducted from a distance. I can feel bad for Bristol, if for some reason I want to think about the Palins at all.
Abstinence-only sex "education" is certainly a contradiction in terms, but I'd be more willing to score political points from it if Bill Clinton -- who like it or not was a Democrat -- wasn't one of abstinence ed's most important advocates. Yes, him. Hey, he didn't actually have sex with Monica Lewinsky: at least the schooling worked for him.
still disappointed that my own sex ed class didn't have a lab requirement,
- Brian
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Apr 02 '09
12:36 am PDT
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Hopefully she can go back... (Reply to this comment)
by vicfar
to doing the things she does best: changing diapers, sabotaging condom machines, and shooting some living critters in the wilderness.
I know this sounds mean, but the country does not need a Sarah Palin to make things even worse than they are, if at all possible. I hope (but I don't think) this is the last time we hear about her!
Vic
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Nov 20 '08
9:32 am PST
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Family (Reply to this comment)
by Stephen_Murray
What happened to the thug marrying her knocked-up daughter Bristol in yet another success story from "sbstinence only" sex "education"? He appeared on stage in St. Paul, but...
Can you imagine the field days Christianist Republicans would have if a black Democratic candidate named a child "Trig" and had a pregnant unmarried teenage daughter to show as evidence of being a good mother?
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Nov 19 '08
2:46 pm PST
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Re: The shopping spree.... (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
I can't even BEGIN to fathom how such a thing is possible. I go shopping at Macy's or Nordstrom and am hard-pressed to find many dresses priced much over a few hundred dollars. There are some VERY attractive outfits that a stylish woman could wear for under $300
I would think so. My wife Cindy, unlike me, is very stylish, and I've never seen her bust that budget (except at our wedding, and even then it wasn't by so much). I think Cindy dresses better than Sarah Palin does. I may not be objective, true.
Can there possibly exist a person more out of tune with the economic pain and worries that America is feeling today?
The cheap shot answer would be "George W. Bush", but by now he has to know. Judging by the horrid anti-environmental, anti-safety regulations he's been pushing frantically through before leaving office, though -- and the fact that he worked so hard to provoke panic in the stock markets, emphasizing how awful everything is and how important it is that we all buy Henry Paulson a trillion-dollar pony -- he doesn't mind.
buying all his shots used at Goodwill,
- Brian
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Nov 09 '08
2:23 pm PST
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Re: She's just not as funny as her father Michael... (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
you just keep on being that poncey judgmental twerp.
Thanks - i daresay i will. And hopefully when we have a major politican named Cleese, the laughs will be all intentional. I don't think i'd want the Dems to nominate an Idle, though; it would play into too many stereotypes.
I'm enjoying your reviews, and once again just pleased I don't have to choose between right wing and very right wing in my elections...
True dat. But you know, i'm really glad i'm not in Russia, where it's like "so do i miss the czars more, or the communists, or the mafia?". Or the Congo, where it's "which roving gang do i want to be slaughtered by this week?". In America it's still "do i want the czars, or the presidents?", and i get an even shot of picking the winner. I just don't want to be asked to call my president "Commander in Chief" again: he's not _my_ commander. I was born in a country where i don't have a commander, and i hope Obama knows this. I think he does.
patriotically,
- Brian
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Nov 09 '08
10:20 am PST
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Re: Re: Palin (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
when the news broke yesterday about her $150,000 wardrobe and her childrens travel expenses I really hoped it would wake some of her supporters up...
Great great great review
Thanks! And again, yes, that story seems to have made an impression; i'm wondering if some Republican donors are going to be a little more hesitant about giving the RNC money next time. I hesitate to pay $20 for a shirt of my own; i'd be less than thrilled to pay twenty times that for someone else's....
spending credit where credit is due,
- Brian
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Nov 09 '08
10:04 am PST
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Re: Palin (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
I'm unable to tell if it's Sarah Palin I'm seeing or a Tina Fey parody when she's on the news
It's close. Tina Fey's version doesn't, to me, have quite the Three Stooges vibe that Palin's worst real appearances do. I think Fey has too much pride for that.
Still, very well-written arguments against her. I hope someone listens.
And now we know. I was far, far too tired to actually feel joy, or even happiness, on election night. But the relief? Man, i needed that.
cheers, muted so as not to wake the baby,
- Brian
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Nov 09 '08
9:46 am PST
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Oh Yeah (Reply to this comment)
by daumco
Something I forgot to mention was your take on the founding Fathers. I just read a book that said the same thing. The main founding fathers, if anything were cool toward organized religion. Some were Diests and some were outright Athiests. Not like the Fundies like to say that they were religious.
The country is much more religious now than it was then.
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Nov 08 '08
6:19 am PST
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Thank God (Reply to this comment)
by daumco
If I believed in God that is. Hi Vox, I miss your keen intellect.
Anyway, our shared assessment is that Palin, who easily could have been President, would have been a disaster. It came out on the news just Wednesday that she thought Africa was a country and basically didn't know the countries of the Middle East, which shows before being tabbed as VP candidate she had no interest in anything beyond the borders of Alaska.
One thing I think you should have mentioned was the fact that she believed the Kenyan witch hunting preacher was instrumental in her being elected Governor. Then of course there's the strange Pentecostal church she belonged to itself, which the main Assembly of God organization has denied recognition. The Pastor, Kalnins I believe, is on record as saying anyone who criticizes President Bush is going to Hell and in 2004, vote for John Kerry at the risk of your soul.
Whacko church, whacko candidate.
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Nov 08 '08
6:12 am PST
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Just came by (Reply to this comment)
by ifif1938
to say...hooray, the election is over and Palen is going back to the tundra...her high class clothes will look great in the back country...LOL
:)'
cheers
Barbara
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Nov 06 '08
1:20 pm PST
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You didn't make mention... (Reply to this comment)
by jsommersby
...that she cut the funding of Covenant House Alaska -- a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live -- by over 20% earlier in the same year that her own underage daughter got knocked up. (Looks to me that Palin's belief in abstinence-only education probably needs a proper tune-up.) And pick my feet in Poughkeepsie, but it seems pretty unpatriotic to me that her husband is part of a movement to cede Alaska from the U.S -- if, say, California or Vermont did something similar, they'd surely be called America-haters. Also, it's so amusing that so many Alaskans aver they hate government yet Alaska is the biggest welfare state per capita in the U.S. Finally, I agree 100% that so-called "macho" hunters should arm themselves with nothing but a knife Rambo-style and take on their prey fairly.
Super piece, as usual.
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Oct 27 '08
7:01 am PDT
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She's just not as funny as her father Michael... (Reply to this comment)
by cr01
Hi Brian, you just keep on being that poncey judgmental twerp.
I'm enjoying your reviews, and once again just pleased I don't have to choose between right wing and very right wing in my elections...
Chris
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Oct 24 '08
10:58 am PDT
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The shopping spree.... (Reply to this comment)
by mrkstvns
Palin blows $150,000 of somebody else's money on CLOTHES!!!
I can't even BEGIN to fathom how such a thing is possible. I go shopping at Macy's or Nordstrom and am hard-pressed to find many dresses priced much over a few hundred dollars. There are some VERY attractive outfits that a stylish woman could wear for under $300.
How the heck do you spend 500 times that!?!?!
If somebody gives me $150,000 "to go clothes shopping" I'll grab a few pairs of slacks, some nice polo shirts, a new pair of Florsheims and probably have about $149,500 left for ohhhh, say 3 brand new BMW 5-series, complete with trunks totally packed with chilly brewskis...and I'd STILL have money left over.
Can there possibly exist a person more out of tune with the economic pain and worries that America is feeling today?
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Oct 23 '08
7:30 pm PDT
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Re: Palin (Reply to this comment)
by ifif1938
There's nothing I can add that hasn't been written both in this most important and informative article and in these comments...
when the news broke yesterday about her $150,000 wardrobe and her childrens travel expenses I really hoped it would wake some of her supporters up...
That panicked blankness on McCains and Palins face is more and more evident these days as the voting date nears.
I pray that America sees through that blankness for what it really is. I know one person who will never see the light, that smug pig on the View, Elizabeth. arggh....
Great great great review
Barbara
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Oct 23 '08
11:58 am PDT
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Palin (Reply to this comment)
by geminiph
Hi.
I'm unable to tell if it's Sarah Palin I'm seeing or a Tina Fey parody when she's on the news.
Still, very well-written arguments against her. I hope someone listens.
Anna
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Oct 23 '08
9:04 am PDT
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Re: Linky-do, deux (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
I hope it's ok; I linked your article to my Facebook account!
Sounds excellent! Two audiences wondering what this piece is doing on a site meant to contain hotel reviews, instead of one; i'll accept that doubling. :-)
As for the L.A. Times article you send: on the one hand, no, politicians don't tend to be deeply honest about the deficit, any more than voters do. (Obama's more honest on the topic than McCain, easily, but that's not a high standard to meet.) And i don't believe, despite the official claims, that the U.S. taxpayer is going to get much money back on that bailout package; if i'm right, that makes the deficit situation worse. So does a recession.
On the other hand, FDR was bringing the U.S. out of the Great Depression with steady growth when, in 1936, he was persuaded that it was time to balance the budget by slashing spending. It tipped the U.S. right back into negative growth the next year, and made the depression deeper and longer.
there's no dessert until you've finished $700 billion worth of mashed potatoes,
- Brian
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Oct 23 '08
4:26 am PDT
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Re: Re: Re: Lots of electrons you spent on Palin... (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
Sarah Palin has what I would call a kind of trench-fighting intelligence, similar to that of George W. Bush
*nods* Indeed. Though Bush's version was less reliant on flirting. Well, admittedly, the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED photo stunt did provoke embarrassing tributes to his firm jaw, his manly shoulders and the obviously huge penis encased by his jock cup, including from those noted Fierce Liberals (TM) Chris Matthews and Frank Rich. And he did spend his early years on the national scene calling each reporter by (seemingly) affectionate nicknames, which many of them _admitted in print at the time_ was affecting their coverage, including or especially during the 2000 election. So really, never mind, there's no difference there. (And search dailyhowler.com for extensive proof if you think i'm making this up.)
an interview with Fox News after her sessions with Katy Couric, when she said that a number of Ms Couric's questions implied disrespect
Well, of course! A Fox interviewer would have carefully stuck only to fair and balanced topics like "What does it feel like to be a heroic reformer?" and "Do you think electing a Communist Muslim terrorist would be good for America, or bad?" Katie Couric disrespected the aim of Palin's cram sessions, and a woman who would do that disrespects America.
oh the shark babe has such teeth, dear, and it shows them pearly white,
- Brian
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Oct 23 '08
4:21 am PDT
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Re: Dubyawza! (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
I actually think that GW Bush was actually more informed on the issues when he ran in 2000 than Palin is as she does now.
Hmmm... i get what you're saying, but honestly, i doubt it. I'm reminded of various social science experiments premised on training male and female actors to give identical answers, with identical body language, to a set of interview questions, then having different (but randomly chosen) audiences rate each actor on intelligence, qualifications, likeability and other such traits. The male actors are always rated substantially higher -- including, to some extent, by female raters, but especially by males. In other words, all else being equal, we seem to be programmed (socially? genetically? FORTRAN-ly? i don't know) to see the woman as dumber.
Hey, and I'm surprised nobody's mentioned www.factcheck.org
But now you have! So that works.
but she doesn't want to understand that she's a girl and i'm a man,
- Brian
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Oct 23 '08
4:07 am PDT
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Linky-do, deux (Reply to this comment)
by slayergrl99
Brian,
Here's a link to an article in the LA Times Online (Best journalism ever, I know) that has direct quotes from both camps and essentially draws the conclusions that they're BOTH idiots on domestic economics.
Read and make your own judgments!
- - Gabby
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-econplan23-2008oct23,0,4955551.story
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Oct 22 '08
10:00 pm PDT
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Dubyawza! (Reply to this comment)
by smorg
..that's what pops up in my head whenever I see her on the tv screen now. The alarming thing is that I actually think that GW Bush was actually more informed on the issues when he ran in 2000 than Palin is as she does now.
Hey, and I'm surprised nobody's mentioned www.factcheck.org yet! Along with snopes.com, it's a fabulous site for fact checking these politicos (of all parties). ;o)
Cheerio,
Smorg :o)... is still in stitches over http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-palin-rap/773781/
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Oct 22 '08
5:28 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Lots of electrons you spent on Palin... (Reply to this comment)
by macresarf1
I think you are right, Brian, that Sarah Palin has what I would call a kind of trench-fighting intelligence, similar to that of George W. Bush. Like most politicians, she has hidden agendas. One of hers, I think, is to pretend to be a little clueless as she hopes to send a secret message to the moody, uncommitted voter who is her target. She indicated that quality in an interview with Fox News after her sessions with Katy Couric, when she said that a number of Ms Couric's questions implied disrespect toward persons like herself. She suggested that, for instance, in her opaque answer to the question about her reading choices, she was not about to give satisfaction to what she imagined was a condescending attitude.
Interesting, but of course, a bit crazy, and it does not qualify her necessarily to be Vice President of the United States.
Good information.
Alex
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Oct 22 '08
11:00 am PDT
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Linky-do (Reply to this comment)
by slayergrl99
Hey Brian,
I hope it's ok; I linked your article to my Facebook account!
- - Gabby
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Oct 22 '08
8:29 am PDT
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Re: Lots of electrons you spent on Palin... (Reply to this comment)
by voxpoptart
Yeah, i know. There's a lot to be said for brevity. Still, close to half of Americans are not prepared to agree that she's incompetent and clueless (nor is that fair, since she has real skills), and in theory some of them might be persuadable by assembled facts.
Or at least maybe they'll read the bit about the Founding Fathers, or the bit about houses up in the snowy mountains that don't need heaters to stay warm, and go "Wait? What?". And learn something neat.
As much to the point: Palin's record is similar to G.W. Bush's before he became president. By which i mean, not a _short_ record, but a much too long one to leave any doubts. Yet because most liberals didn't know the record, a stunning number of them (and up to 90% of the American people as a whole) were willing to support the Bush Administration in the wake of 9/11, in the apparent belief that the Bush team's response would make America stronger. Had they been better informed, they'd've known that was silly. Here's to preventing a repeat.
cheers,
- Brian
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Oct 22 '08
7:07 am PDT
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Lots of electrons you spent on Palin... (Reply to this comment)
by vicfar
very informative as usual. I'd say she is just incompetent and clueless. Isn't enough to disqualify her? Of course, incompetent, clueless AND corrupt is even worse: it is George Bush with lipstick!
Vic
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Oct 22 '08
6:36 am PDT
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