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Re: Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
A teacher friend of mine related how he was contacted by the "fraud department" of his credit card company. They asked him if he had recently made a purchase in Anchorage, Alaska. Of course, the answer was "no." They then proceeded to tell him how he could go about getting rid of the charge. But they told him the last 4 digits of the card, and they weren't his. Turns out, the charge was to a replacement, "upgraded" card (with a higher limit and a "rewards" program) that he'd received while he was in and out of the hospital for major surgery, and he later found it (after the phone call)in the envelope--unopened and UNACTIVATED!!!
He, of course, posited that this obviously had to be an inside job--no one outside his company would've had the resources to do this. This person's answer was,"Well, I'm just in the fraud department, blah blah blah..." I'm pretty sure this was handled summarily, in his favor, but it brought to light how criminals just take an arbitrary card number, and just numerically add a "1" to the account number--and are able to charge someone's card unknowingly (we think that is a possible scenario). That a bank would make credit card numbers so predictable is ludicrous. I don't want to speculate on the possibilities-for fear of someone "running with this," but a pen, paper, and a 60-ounce brain is all that's needed to take advantage of a gaffe like this. You'd think that a credit card number would be at least as unpredictable as a Microsoft activation code (but then, it is all digits and no letters). God help us all...
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Nov 21 '08
10:59 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by lllopez
I would think you have a better chance of recovering and possibly makinga case to reverse any negative credit reporting on the Wa Mu issue Ken, that one raises red flags everywhere!
Your Mom, at least, had a moment in the credit sun, unfortunately she did the spending and now may have to face the music. If she can hold on, the real estate market should start correcting itself by the end of next year and she may start to see a light at the end of the tunnel and sell the house if she is so inclined. I wish her the best!
The hurdle the economy has to get over now is regaining confidence in the markets and ease back into spending and thus feed the economy, but it can't be done piecemeal, we all have to participate, which is easier said than done as long as the media feeds the frenzy and the new administration makes a few of the right moves necessary to breathe life into the economy.
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Nov 15 '08
1:23 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by vicfar
Kevin,
a lot of people in the financial sector should really be in jail. I will believe again in democracy when this starts to happen. The people who did that to your mother should be behind bars, or better yet, consigned to community duties for 20 years.
Instead, white collar crime is rewarded in the US.
Vic
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Nov 15 '08
8:23 am PST
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Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
You are so right, Vic. This "reality check" will bring people back down to Earth. Somehow, a lender gave my mom (a widow) a total of $300,000 in loans, even though the only income I'm aware she has is a $500 VA check. Her house was paid for, free and clear.
She went on a shopping spree and bought a Jaguar, a house full of flat-screen tv's, and, according to her account, "spent $200,000 remodeling" her house. Now, the formerly $500,000 house is worth about $375, and she struggles to pay a $1600 mortgage, and a $600 car payment. I don't know where they got off approving a loan like that, and I'm thinking of looking into if any laws were broken here. There's no way she can make those payments.
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Nov 14 '08
8:33 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
That, and a good "rewards" program. We went without a rewards program for years. With our American Express card, we have received so many gift cards, certificates, etc., that I wonder how we got by without these perks. They let me carry a small balance, at 14% interest, as well, and automatically add travel insurance when I make travel purchases. Right now, with a loan of 15,000 points, we have amassed enough this year for 2 round-trip air tickets, and I also used a $50 Dell Home certificate to get an HP laser printer for a balance of about $19, shipped. They do charge an annual program fee, though, but it's been reduced in the last few years.
I know I've railed against their practices (and I wonder how these programs will change in this economy), but I thought I'd point these out. And now, American Express has become a "holding company," and is holding out their hands for a piece of the bailout pie. Who knows what will happen next?
Kevin
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Nov 14 '08
8:32 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
Washington Mutual improperly handled a fraudulent (electronic!) check passed on my account--not even telling me that the account would be closed, and no authorizations would be honored past an arbitrary date(they carried on as if I was supposed to know, even though the specifics of this weren't communicated to me). This had been my main account for many years, and I had automatic payments disrupted, and got into some credit trouble behind this. This resulted in an agreement with Sears being broken (they had now been absorbed by Citibank), and they ended up adding fees and interest that has my balance above what it was initially, after faithfully paying on it for years! I'm certain some laws were broken here.
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Nov 14 '08
8:21 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by lllopez
Many banks offer fraud protection and those are the only debit cards you should use. Of course the inconvenience of opening up a fraud case and restoring bounced checks, the impact on your credit for payments that aren't honored etc are really where the danger lies. Caveat Emptor.
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Nov 14 '08
5:34 am PST
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Re: Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by talyseon
Just remember, you personally are responsible for all debt incurred by a debit card if it is stolen. That is the one way credit is superior. I suggest having a seperate account for your debit card and minimizing the ammount of money in it. That way they can't clear you out. I have a cousin who keeps a $1000.00 balance in his "debit" account, and extremely strict instructions about not going over limit. This saved his butt when some one cloned his card.
Talyseon
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Nov 13 '08
9:55 am PST
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Re: Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by lllopez
Here here! I too have been using my debit card exclusively for years now after realizing that credit cards were a black hole. Vic, you nailed a very important point. There are different psychological perspectives on the handling of money when you are free from credit card debt. Once out, you don’t want to get caught up again and you start saving. The rampant availability of credit is much like a dealer on the corner giving the first hit of crack for free, and then he has you. The banks have been preying on the desire to materially succeed when in fact we should aspire to fiscal success. The upside of this financial downturn is that finally we will see the benefit of having a few bucks in the bank and living within our limits.
Credit cards should only be used if you can pay the balance off each month.
Folks, what good is saving $300.00 on a $2000.00 flat panel, when it’s going to cost your $8,000 grand after you pay the credit cards off? The winner here is clearly the banks! I would rather spend the $6,000 on my family not the bankers.
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Nov 13 '08
4:54 am PST
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Living without credit cards.... (Reply to this comment)
by vicfar
is almost possible. It took me a year to cancel 4 of my US credit cards after I moved to Belgium. Some cancelled and sent me imaginary bills, others basically refused to cancel, AMEX cancelled and months later sent me the bill for the annual fee. Now I am living with a KBC Visa with a 3,500 euro credit limit. In the US I made the same money and my credit limit totalled >$100,000. What does it tell you about this insane industry?
A deluge of personal bankruptcies will soon follow the ongoing US recession, and this is caused by people maxing out on credit cards. Now that I use a debit card (I only buy what I can afford), my life is simpler. There's life without credit. That's how the world used to run. Americans will have to readjust to a new reality. Limitless credit like we used to have is gone forever!
Cheers
Vic
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Nov 12 '08
12:08 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
Again--thanks HUGELY for this information! We consumers need every weapon at our disposal to protect our credit and other related interests! And I think it might be wise to make a couple of stamps-custom fit to your checks-for this purpose, with blanks to fit in the company names.
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Nov 09 '08
8:41 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by talyseon
one other thing...I think you actually have to get the check back; it has to be original. I could be wrong, but...
I personally use a quill pen and india ink for the fine line, and because it is almost impossible to get out of paper.
Talyseon.
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Nov 09 '08
2:33 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by talyseon
It does matter. Write above the line. I originally heard about this from someone who used it against Radio Shack's persistant mailing list. Since they ask for information to take your check and do not always "not put you on the list" they turned the check into a contract and got $500.00 when Radio Shack started mailing them more advertisments.
The person who did this was not a lawyer. Just knowledgeable, and fed up.
Talyseon.
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Nov 09 '08
2:28 am PST
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Re: Re: Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
That is a phenomenal comment!!! Thanks a million!!! And that makes perfect sense--why not??? And just make a copy or digital picture of the check (and why not let them know?) to cut down on costs. You have a heckuva lawyer friend, as well. I wonder if we as individuals could get away with that one... And would it matter if we hand-wrote it, or typed the message, I wonder... Also, did you write the message under the "DO NOT WRITE BELOW THIS LINE" space, or above, or does it really matter?
Kevin
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Nov 08 '08
8:06 pm PST
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Re: Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by talyseon
Here is something to try: We had problems with MCI...who hasn't? However, we could never resolve them; their customer service fax number seems to empty directly into a shredder.
Finally, it went to collection agency, and then another, etc, because we were not going to pay for services not rendered. Finally, years later, we had an agency that agreed to accept the amount of the actual long distance connected as paid in full.
They LIE. After we paid, the day after every thing cleared, we started getting calls on the "balance".
I have since learned a way to deal with this matter. You have to have access to your checks back (this causes a fee for me...gripe, gripe) but on the back you write, "Cashing this check is a legally binding agreement that the account is paid in full, and (Company) has no further legal claim or recourse."
I have a lawyer friend who went so far as to state his fee for discussing the matter further was billable at a rate of $300.00 per hour, billed at the full hour...and he soaked them for over $2100.
You see, we may agree to their terms, but when they cash that check, they agree to ours.
Hope this idea helps...and hope it hurts them where it counts.
Talyseon.
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Nov 08 '08
6:08 am PST
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Re: Re: An Actual BRIGHT SPOT In This Mess... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
Your words ring really, REALLY true! I have this dumb CARE credit card. If your payment isn't there by 2pm EASTERN time, by the penultimate, or day before (varies) day of the month, they charge you a $39 fee. They give you a "promotional" no-interest fee (this is a healthcare card), but if that particular charge isn't fully-paid (and I'm going to press them on what wasn't "full paid"), you get hit with all of the interest (20% ). Avoid this, if at ALL possible!
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Nov 01 '08
8:30 pm PDT
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Re: An Actual BRIGHT SPOT In This Mess... (Reply to this comment)
by lllopez
Bravo, persistence pays. It helps that you are diligent in paying your credit obligations. The fact remains, however, that banks are guilty of predatory credit practices. The fact that they wanted to increase your APR that dramatically is tantamount to shylocking! Far too many credit and banking institutions charge excessive fees sometimes as high as $35.00 for a late fee, defining late as 1 day past due. Granted late is late but in the past the model was to allow a grace period to allow for mail pay cycles etc, but $35.00 when they receive the payment one or two days past due?
Then there are those companies that CHARGE for online payments, or those who charge for same day crediting, sometimes $15-25.00? I am startled when I read what is happening to people who may spend up to 8 times their original credit obligation before it is paid off.
Folks, slavery is alive and well in the United States, we are all card carriers! Unfortunately none of the esteemed political candidates has seen fit to take the political hit to challenge this lobby.
Use credit sparingly and pay it off quickly, it’s instrumental to increasing your personal wealth.
Thanks for the FYI Ken!
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Nov 01 '08
8:46 am PDT
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An Actual BRIGHT SPOT In This Mess... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
I'm happy to report that Citicard actually did something unselfish today. I missed the last on-time payment on my wife's card. We caught a late fee, naturally, but the APR was increased, from 19 to 29%. I went ahead and paid it, and requested, via e-mail, a reversal of the APR change. The standard reply stated that we would need 12 months of on-time payments in order for an APR reduction to be considered and, in the meantime, our entire balance would be subject to the new APR. I e-mailed again, and they indicated that they would need to speak to the main cardholder to "process" this request.
I called them up, and the initial agent wasn't able to change anything. However, the very polite agent (and clearly, plainly, "Queen's" English-speaking!!!) suggested I speak to a representative, which I did. The very professional supervisor heard me out-I had recently switched to a spreadsheet for our bills, and had inadvertently left out this particular item, in the cloud of activity surrounding the planning hoopla of our kids mega/gala 4th birthday party blowout (it was all my fault). After verifying that we'd never been late before, she promptly indicated that the APR had been changed back--just like that! We exchanged pleasantries, and went off to count my pennies (saved)!
It's difficult to believe, but there actually are companies out there who give supervisors-real people with hearts and brains-discretion to decide something, instead of having them hit the brick wall of a microprocessor with bulletproof and unerring computational ability to "shag" you with as many irreversible fees as possible!!!
Kevin
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Oct 31 '08
5:31 pm PDT
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Re: Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
Wow. That's just unbelievable. The things these large companies can get away with..!
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Oct 28 '08
4:41 pm PDT
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Many Many years ago (Reply to this comment)
by AliventiAsylum
I got into a dispute with Amex and asked them to cancel the card. I still had the Sign & Travel account and was paying that balance down faithfully. For six months this went on, then all of a sudden eveything was completely closed and I was getting letters demanding full payment or my account would go to a collection agency.
We hesitated and it went to the collection agency. We agreed to a number with them - after threats of legal action on our part - and borrowed from a relative to get rid of the headache. Several months later, we get a letter from Amex saying we still owed $800. They didn't care that we had an agreement with the agency - they said they didn't approve it. I agreed to split the difference with them in exchange for a clean credit report. They agreed.
Guess what? A couple of months later they were looking for an additional $400! This time I didn't pay on principal. It was the only mark on our credit report and we had no problems getting a mortgage. But I would never want to deal with them again.
Patti
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Oct 27 '08
11:45 pm PDT
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Re: The credit institutions and banks that are (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
THANK YOU for this valuable insight. It's scary to think that a company as venerable as American Express could fall, too, but it does stand to reason, as you pointed out, that it's more a reflection of their excessive avarice. When all the little pieces fall into place, then to the "victors" will the "spoils" (our business) go. In the meantime, I even hesitate to say "hope for the best," but without reservation say,"prepare for the worst." I can't wait until the responsible parties are rounded up and dealt with!
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Oct 27 '08
2:39 pm PDT
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The credit institutions and banks that are (Reply to this comment)
by lllopez
employing this credit manipulation will eventually fail or be bought up by their more solvent competitors. Remember they are in the business of lending, not holding money. That they cannot perform this most vital facet of their business is more an indicator of their reliance on credit and their own solvency. Local banks have plenty of credit available and will eventually grow their markets by projecting a business model that doesn't gamble their customers futures on risky investments. The right thing always trumps out greed. Time is running out for these monolith institutions and unfortunately in the interim, we may have to bite the bullet while the market corrects itself.
If these companies think they can woo you back after insulting their loyal customer base, they are in for a rude awakening; people don't support those who don't support them in a time of need. Apparently they don't teach that in MBA programs anymore. They deserve to fade away.
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Oct 27 '08
11:30 am PDT
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Re: Re: Interesting.... (Reply to this comment)
by northeastgal
Sears and only took it because they gave me a discount with my purchase. It was actually pushed onto me.
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Oct 24 '08
10:33 pm PDT
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Re: Interesting.... (Reply to this comment)
by kengland4
Isn't it a shame? They're going to force us not to rely on credit. They can pretty much do what they want--we "agreed" to it, with the help of their lobbyists. There'll likely be more of the same..! What company is your Mastercard with, by the way?
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Oct 24 '08
9:09 pm PDT
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Interesting.... (Reply to this comment)
by northeastgal
I, too, received a letter stating they were reducing my maximum a week ago. Mine is MasterCard. I never in my life received anything like that before. I always make my payment on time and have always paid much more than necessary. Most times the minimum was "0" but I send in between $50 - $100 for a balance of $800.
This is weird, now that I read your review I see more people are getting these letters. I have not done any research though.
NEG
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Oct 24 '08
8:44 pm PDT
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