KILL THE COMMENTS, KILL THE "COMMUNITY"
Written: Jan 21 '01 (Updated Jan 23 '01)
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Product Rating:
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Pros: They're still paying 3 cents a hit
Cons: Comments section gone. Over enthusiastic censoring...and most everything else
The Bottom Line: It's laughable to think Epinions cares.
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| kellydeal's Full Review: Archived Web Services Reviews |
I never thought I'd be writing one of these type opinions. But, in the wake of the changes here, I seem to have shaken my addiction a bit. This leaves me time to do silly things like this.
And since editorials no longer hit "Just In", I assume you swung by my profile page to say "hello".
Oh wait, you can't say hello. The comments section is gone. You can't say anything. So, if this editorial p-i-s-s-e-s you off or you think I am some sort of Gloom and Doom Newbie - you can't say a peep here. Not in public, on the review. Sure, you could e-mail me and tell me all sorts of nasty things, but c’mon that’s not really the same now is it? There’s no use in telling someone they’re an a-s-s-h-o-l-e unless the rest of the “community” is in on it.
Oh, at any rate, I hate to see myself as one of those addicts that “care” – at least enough to whine in public – put effort into their whining, but here I am.
Many people are upset because of the changes (duh), but I can see where Epinions is going with this one. At least I think I have a fair idea. And I could be way off – but at least I can use this as an opportunity to post something on the new sight (I hear it takes a few times, everything is censored and it’s a general pain in the a-s-s).
BOTTOM LINE
Epinions is making their site more into what it’s supposed to be. A place for consumers.
These consumers do not care whether or not listening to Jon Spencer makes me want to dance nekkid around my apartment. These consumers do not care that fresh sheets and freshly shaven legs make me feel funky – they do not care about my Yule Tide Write Off Gifts. The consumers want facts with a bit of personal observation.
We are the ones who want to hear more personal information. The person who wanders in does not know the hierarchy of the site - they do not know there is somewhat of a tiered class system not unlike High School. The overabundance of personal information is annoying to the casual consumer who wanders in. They want the facts, personal stories that pertain to the reviewed item.
Epinions is creating a more consumer friendly atmosphere. This shouldn't shock anyone, but it does suck for those who like to bend the rules and flex the boundaries.
They are trying to create a balance between a real site that offers real information, and a playground for those who need a creative outlet and some sort of personal acknowledgement.
They're tugging the leash back on those who like to bend the rules, making it much less interesting to do so. (Why write something reactionary when there is no public place to react - like the comments section).
And (gasp) if anyone thinks Epinions “cares” how long anyone’s been a member or if any specific members are going to jump ship – they don’t. There are new members signing up every day who don’t remember “how it used to be” will never know there used to be a comments section and how it felt to be part of the “community”. These new people will just think it’s pretty farkin’ cool to watch their pennies grow and never know the difference.
Much like many of us never knew how if felt back in the day when they paid the “big” money for each hit. As a new member I never knew Epinions paid a lot more for each hit in the past until I started reading things in the comments section. I never knew the difference, but I kept posted anyway for the fun of it. Some people may have quit Epinions when they started paying only 1 cent a hit, but there were many others who signed up afterwards – happy to have that penny never knowing the difference. Like me.
So, I don’t know for sure if the comment section will be back or not I am just saying it really wouldn’t surprise me if it didn’t come back, because after awhile, no one will know the difference. And even if a few hundred of the most loyal Epinioners leave – they are in the minority anyway. It doesn’t matter to Epinions when there is actually a membership of thousands. It’s a small percentage.
I used to work in broadcasting – radio. Each station I’ve worked for always had a very hard core loyal listening fan base. These people, on occasion, would get p-I-s-s-e-d off by changes the station made (whether it be programming, firing the morning DJ, too many commercials). These die hard listeners would write nasty letters to the General Manager - telling them the radio station had really farked up this time. The changes were unacceptable and they had just lost their most loyal listener.
Do you think the radio stations cared? Hell no. Most people influenced by radio (the ones the advertisers were interested in) were the casual listeners – the die hards were a small percentage. Even if the die hards were a few thousand – makes no difference in the sea of millions in the metro area.
At any rate – killing off the comment section may be killing off the community as we may know it, but there are lots of folks who aren’t going to know the difference. There will still be plenty of people cruising the site clicking on banners reading up on products.
Epinions may need the collective us, but they don’t need you. Or you, or you.
------------ MY VERY OWN COMMENTS SECTION HERE------------
I am assuming you’ll have something to say. SO - I’ll open up my e-mail Inbox as a comments section. And if and when anyone tells me to go to h-e-l-l, tells me to fark off – I’ll just come back, edit this opinion and post it here. Epinions may not be giving people a chance to comment, but I will. Tell me I’m full of it, and I’ll post it here….g’head. kellydeal13@yahoo.com
Here they are so far 1/21/01
Grandmasandy wrote:
Your review did hit the just in section. They change the review every 10 minutes now. The comment section will be back very soon. The site is not complete yet. As you can see your money amounts have not been updated.I am finding it hard getting use to the new format. Not sure why but I liked the old way. I guess we will all get used to it sooner or later.
Sandy
StrikerObi wrote:
D-a-m-n RIGHT! All that stuff you said was true. I remeber getting paid more, and I remeber being P.O.ed when they lowered the pay-out. These new changes really stink. Thankfull this opinion made the front page and hopefully plenty of people saw it!
Sloucho wrote:
Epinions is dead; long live kellydeal
Kellydeal, At the moment, I am persauded that you are the coolest person on epinions. I'm glad to see you writing one of THOSE reviews if that's what it takes to get you back.
If they do in fact get rid of comments--and I'm beginning to suspect that they will--I would love to see everyone adopting your practice of pasting in email commentary.
Unfortunately, I know that most people just won't take the time to do it. (Note how suspiciously I'm not volunteering to take the time to do it.) I hope your review turns into the place where all the veterans (not that I can honestly claim to be one) gather to b-i-t-c-h about the wrongheaded changes that are taking away my Pleasantville.
Much love, Mike (Sloucho)
SurgRN911 wrote:
I agree 100%..............Nice job hope they realize the mistake and bring back the comment section..................thanks
Di
Mike24 wrote:
O.K. - as you stated, epinions is a business
and they are "taking care of business".
However, when you think about it, do they
realize how much the comments section brought
to the table ? If it were a "corporate" decision
being made, I would want hard facts. How many
people utilized it ? Did it bring in revenue ?
If so, how much ? Did it spark interest among
the users ? Did it promote (or tear down) the
epinions site ? Did it please the users ?
For some strange reason, I don't think these
questions (and probably a hundred more) were
addressed fully. I believe they hihgly
underestimated the popularity of the comments
section. This is just MHO.
kellydeal - thanks for the review. Well done.
I'll be your mailbox will be flooded real soon.
mike24
MY RESPONSE
Well, you’re right Mike. Just like in broadcasting (sorry to keep going back to that) advertisers want NUMBERS PROOF. But the hard core listener/loyalists (the ones most likely to leave comments here on Epinions and the ones most likely to call in to radio stations with feedback/ or for contests) are small in comparison to the general audience. As long as it’s known the general audience is there, they just want a bit more information about the demographics. They don’t really care whether or not I think WaltLockely’s opinion on the library is sexy or not. They wanna know how much I make a year and where I’ll be spending that money. WE create the atmosphere to let lose and let that information go. We are giving up a lot more per penny than we know.
And to go on with another radio sales comparison ( I KNOW this is different but work with me). You’d think those listeners who listen HOURS and HOURS a day would be considered valuable to the station. They are in a sense, but they are a small percentage and plus radio wasn’t meant to be listened to hours on end. That’s why these same people get annoyed with songs being repeated over and over. Programming-wise, it’s not meant to be listened to that long. That’s why the ratings are segmented between TSL (time spent listening) and AQH (average quarter hour)…as long as you’re tuned in for 15 minutes you count towards the AQH and you instantly become a rating. As long as you log in ever day and rate a few things, throw out a review you become part of their AQH in a sense. Something they can show potential advertisers.
Sorry for the rant. I will stop. For now.
Marctasman wrote:
Kellydeal, You are so right. There is no more fun there. No witty banter. My wife suggested that epinions is not providing a service, but using its addicted members as a consumer base. They make money off of us buying their s-h-i-t. They sell ads because we supply the cash, not the valuable, "helpful product reviews." Save yourselves! Run! Keep in touch, Marc.
MY RESPONSE:
Your wife is one smart cookie.
SOMEONE WHO DID NOT LEAVE THEIR NAME WROTE:
i'd love to tell you that i thought your editorial was a refreshing and puckish jaunt through the changing landscape of our favorite website (er, once-favorite), and i would. really. but when all's said and done i really just want to see my name at the bottom of your review.
MY RESPONSE:
Sure, I’d be happy to put your name here, had you provided it.
Sleestack wrote:
my comment:
I would've left you a comment... but of course, we can no longer do that. Anyway, I agree with your assessment wholeheartedly and I can barely tolerate the site as it is. Instead of feeding my habit w/hourly sessions of reading, I find myself only visiting to read reviews that someone (like you) have kindly informed me about and that I want to read. Unfortunately, most of the folks I enjoy reading aren't writing for the same reasons. I pray for positive changes soon or I'm riding off into the sunset with many others I know. - sleestakk
OdellBurgess wrote
Kelly, I read it, and think you are spot on. I am not sure what the hell is going on with this whole "community," though in skulking secretly around the Epinions Addicts message board, I did see a post from an Epinions staff person touting some sort of open chat thing that will supposedly answer all outstanding questions and address concerns.
And supposedly we will be seeing the debut of the new and "improved" comments section. Ha. (Also, I am dying for an updated book database...I read a lot over the holidays, and nothing I want to write about has appeared yet.) I personally have my doubts, and, if my husband hadn't gone out of town for business for a while, I probably would be writing a nice, b-I-t-c-h-y "Goodbye Epinions" manifesto. As it is, though, I guess I'll stick around until he gets back, at least, and until your writeoff, if you decide to still hold it. (BTW, I thought of an awesome super power for that, so we'd better still have it!) Anyway, right on, woman. You continue to rock.
Airkiss, Sarah
PS-- Feel free to post this on your opinion, if you are still planning on doing so. You'll probably have to edit my "naughty" language, though -- have you noticed the horrid new profanity filter which censors the name of The-Male-Actor-Who-Starred-in-the-Recent-Revival-of-"Cabaret"-on-Broadway-and- Was-Also-Seen-In-Both-"Titus"-and-"Spice World"? Ha.
Hard to Please wrote
Kelly-
I'm so overcome with emotion at the chance to post a comment that I can barely contain myself. Great idea to allow us to comment! I'm sad that your review makes perfect sense and hope you are wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if you haven't hit the nail on the head.
I have no plans to participate in a comment-less Epinions. (I have neither read or rated since the site came up- the only reason I hit your post is because I read about it on a board.) I fully understand that 'they' couldn't care less that I leave (or the many others I'm aware of who are staying away.) I am not doing it to 'boycott' or to show them how many fewer total hits they will get, etc.,- I am staying away because it is no fun anymore. While I didn't comment on every single review I read, it was nice to know that I could if I wanted to. To go from leaving 50 comments a night to zero made me realize that commenting was the main reason I enjoyed the site. Conversely, having my reviews hit with 300 HRs paled in comparison to the pages and pages of comments left by readers.
Secondly, from what I've heard about the spellcheck, I can no longer ignore when it tells me that "I'm" is wrong - I must change it to "I am" in order to post. Not being able to write like I talk is going to be a huge obstacle which I doubt I can overcome. My average review used to contain at least two dozen 'misspelled' words like 'I've' 'we'll', etc. - not to mention some colloqualisms that we all understand but aren't 'proper' English. If I have to write like an English professor, than the spirit of Hard To Please dies.
I suppose that I will either figure out a way around the censor aspect or else be forced to come here to post when I need to say "p-i-s-s" !
Thanks for the space darlin'!...Mark (Hard To Please)
lnt (?) wrote:
Great editorial. I completely agree, and I guess it remains to be seen ifthe comments will be coming back as they said...
Either way, thanks for the opportunity to comment when we "can't" Great idea!
NaNa Nananana!!
Ellen
Petra wrote
Hi!
Well, here's my 2 cents... :-)
Okay, since you asked for it: "you're full of it". :-) Just KIDDING! Pooh... it just doesn't feel the same, does it? Banter in the comment section was something to look forward to on those favorite reviewers of ourselves and Hard_to_please, daaahling, getting a comment from you has always been more rewarding than a cent for a page view.
I feel like I passed out while playing with my friends and woke up in the hospital room - sterile, quiet, boring and stiff - that's Epinions for ya now.
I happened across this review because I looked at the Just In page and found a review on the Beta test and decided to read all of them. Probably just to see my own snivvels confirmed - this place ain't what it used to be and I can't see myself coming to the site anymore if this is all that's left.
In addition, if you've read the new TOS, Epinions now wants to keep the copyright for everything we write even after we delete it - okay, so I don't write masterpieces here, but as a writer, for someone to have the audacity to demand exclusive rights to anything I write for a penny, is an insult.
Hugs & Lollipops as a friend of mine likes to say
- Petra
MY RESPONSE
Actually, I’ve been meaning to read the TOS again. I was wondering about the copyright issue. I know it seems paranoid, but it literally gives new meaning to “Penny for your thoughts”. Owning the copyright, they could of course sell your ideas to their advertisers…and many other nightmares abound.
Not that they couldn’t have done it before…we need a copyright lawyer on this one…there’s gotta be a few of you laying around this place – thoughts?
Erika wrote
Hey Kelly-
I jumped for joy when you encouraged people to e-mail you in place of a comment. I'm one of the ones who leaves 100 comments a day- it feels weird to keep reading review after review and not comment. It also makes me feel a tad on the rotton side when I give someone an NR.. err.... NH... and can't explain why I do so (hence the encouragment note on my profile to please e-mail me if anyone questions a rating I leave).
I'm not a newbie- in fact, I'm one of the "elders" of the site- joining over a year ago. I've seen the site change considerably overtime- yet, I remain. I've seen many of us rack up quite a large sum of money because we used to get 30 cents per HIT. I've seen it go down to 1 cent. Am I completely happy with ALL of the new changes? Nope. But I do think that people b-i-t-c-h alot for attention... and just to b-i-t-c-h. I think more people would be happy with the system if they were to sit back instead of complain all day long. In no way, shape or form am I saying this is YOU- you brought up a lot of valid and true points... without being whiny.
Anywho- I do totally miss people leaving comments on my reviews. It's more satesfying than any HR I might get. It shows that people actually took the time to read what I said... and didn't slap a rating on. I heard that it's one of the first features that Epinions is trying to implement- thank God.
I'm a writer. I don't claim to be the best one... nor do I claim to be a GOOD one. For all I know, I could suck. But it's my passion and I'll never stop. And I'll never leave the site. After a year, I've seen it all.... the b-i-t-c-h-e-r-s leave, new people come to the site. They become veterans... they b-i-t-c-h, they leave... new ones come to the site. It's a cycle... and Erika is here to stay. WE can make it a community again- if people just sit back, learn the site and get off their high horses.
By the way, farkin' is a rather cool word... may I steal it and use it as my own?
Erika
Elorraine
MY RESPONSE
Well, Erika thanks for reading (everyone thanks for reading of course) the feedback is nice and I fully encourage you to steal farkin’ - use it liberally all over this place – get it going as the new Epinions “bad word” and let’s see if we can get it on the BANNED list. If Epinions sees so many people using it, they’ll think it must be naughty.
Thanks again!
p.s. I had a farkin' b-i-t-c-h of a time putting the hyphens in all the b-i-t-c-h-e-s. Anyone find a new way around this yet?
Yzerman wrote
Kelly,
You go girl!! I can't believe they would bring the site back without the comment section being ready to go! I really like to leave comments!
It's really going to take some time to get used to all of this, I guess.
Diane (yzerman)
MY REPSONSE
I’m going all right, going crazy trying to keep up with you all and your commnents. It’s cool though. You keep sending ‘em I’ll keep posting them as long as I can.
I’m trying to update as soon as I get the chance, but it’s kinda hard with this new farkin’ draft system. Half the time the site tells me it’s in “draft” state and not able to be seen by anyone – no matter HOW many times I submit over and over and over. I get stuck in draft limbo Plus, I do have the slowest computer in the world. So, be patient….
January 22, 2001
Christoff wrote:
Headlines: ...The Epinions Underground Promulgates a Comments Black-market.
christoff Newswire, Nazi Germany. Epinions Officials deny wrongdoing in asuit alleging their support of the splinter group. STOP
Sources indicate that more severe measures may be taken in what appears tobe the seedlings of a coup. STOP
Kelleydeal was unable to be reached for comment as she's surrounded herselfwith an entourage of bodyguards and military strongmen. STOP
Miss deal may be positioning herself to tear the reigns of power from whathas become the ultra Capitalist faction known herein as ReichPinions. STOP
Godspeed, kellydeal
¥
MY RESPONSE
You crack me up. You really do.
Oh, and umm, haiku is in the mail...snail mail...uhh, that's it. You and Sloucho are the ONLY 2 who are making me keep my promise. God bless your little pain in the a s s hearts.
******Please feel free to e-mail me more comments if you like****
A recent bug I noticed - you can rate your own reviews - log out and try it...although I have no idea how to reverse it, so don't blame me....
phixed wrote:
Well said Kelly.
I've been to Epinions once in the past five days and have felt no desire to visit more often. What had quickly become a major part of my day-to-day existence has quickly plummeted in importance. I don't want to come
across as arrogent, but I have better things to do with my time than write reviews for a site that doesn't seem to place any value in the quality of the pieces.
-Adam
akamum wrote:
The comments section of reviews was fundamental to it's very being (to aconsumer or otherwise). A comments section allowed people to reaffirm what the writer had stated or disagree vehemently. It gave product reviewers
valuable feedback (be that positively or negatively) and the editorial writer - a critique of their work.
We all know that Epinions set out to be a consumer driven website, but it's success depended on much more than that - I guess all those wonderful venture capitalists are whining, coupled with advertisers shouting for statistics....
If the comments section does not return to Epinions, then it's very soul will be lost, among with thousands of talented folk who made Epinions a
"community" - something not considered important now it would seem.
Great review - LOVED the comments section!
Carrie
(Akamum)
Recommended:
No
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Epinions.com ID:
kellydeal
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Location: Midwest, USA
Reviews written: 31
Trusted by: 144 members
About Me:
Picture taken at Lounge Ax, the coolest in Chicago 'til the Yuppies shut it down
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