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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:17 am (Updated: May 11 '08, 5:45 am) |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: ladyconsumer With respect, I disagree. Why not make the information available to all members? Those not interested can simply skip that section. Or, if it's electronic, they can choose not to click that link.
To say that the CL's deserve the information but the "ordinary member" doesn't just seems too elitist to me.
OrdinaryMemberMona Hi Mona - In my nonprofit analogy, you are our $50,000 donor, who probably wants more detail. In my report to you (which I don't see taking a newsletter form, but rather via the site status link or here), you'd get the information you want.
Would it hurt to have all bug fixes appear as a clickable link in a general newsletter? Probably not, but let me ask you this - are you really interested in the status of every bug? I think it's fine to share the relevant info with us, but if someone has to spend time figuring out what the status is on the bugs and then updating a site and then responding to member inquiries about why the bugs are being prioritized a certain way or disgruntled members who scoff at the amount of time it takes to fix particular ones, I guess I'd rather have them spending their time on something more productive for the site. That's just me.
As for the information that CLs get and my elitist attitude, you do have a point. I see the idea of sharing information with CLs to make sense in the hierarchy of this community. We have that hierarchy in part because the CLs can translate the information coming from site staff and figure out what's best for their categories and answer to the stakeholders (hatted folks and nonhatted folks alike) who are active in their respective categories and who take the time to ask questions. That's assuming that CLs are chosen in part for their ability to understand the technical information and sort out how it will affect their categories most. I'd rather have the CLs in the loop and able to respond to member questions too, as opposed to one person (Hi Almar!) responsible for that. CLs will hopefully get the nuances of the questions coming from members in their categories and truly take leadership for their areas on the site by carrying some of the responsibility for communication.
As for the potential confusion created by segmenting the audience insinuated at by Mobiprof, I don't mean that Eeps should create multiple newsletters. I just think we can make the most of the different vehicles of information that are already in use. The thing is that we sometimes have information that would be of interest to every registered member mentioned as part of a more complicated thread here, and I would rather see regular information sent to everyone with the hope that more technical questions and complicated issues or updates would be discussed on the boards or via direct responses to emails sent to members. Further, I'd like the CLs to be empowered (and motivated) to take on a little bit of that more involved communication, but I see the need for it happening less and less if the general community is updated regularly about major updates and features via the newsletter.
It isn't that I don't think the CLs aren't stepping up to the plate now. I'm just assuming that as it stands they may not have that much more information than we do.
Times like these, I wish we were all out having a drink together so that I could make sure I'm explaining this in a way that makes sense. . .
Meagan
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:39 am |
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Reviews written: 496 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: meagandowney --snip--
Times like these, I wish we were all out having a drink together so that I could make sure I'm explaining this in a way that makes sense. . .
Meagan
We could all use a drink during ' times like these . . .' And it is only a website..!!
...tom...
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:47 am |
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Reviews written: 634 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: meagandowney
As for the information that CLs get and my elitist attitude, you do have a point. I see the idea of sharing information with CLs to make sense in the hierarchy of this community. We have that hierarchy in part because the CLs can translate the information coming from site staff and figure out what's best for their categories and answer to the stakeholders (hatted folks and nonhatted folks alike) who are active in their respective categories and who take the time to ask questions.
Meagan
Ah. See, the first time around you didn't say anything about the CLs disseminating the information. I thought, at that time, that you were saying the CLs should have the information, but not everyone else. I have no problem using the CLs as a layer in between ordinary folks and top management. As long as the information comes down in some way or another.
On the other hand, I'd still probably opt for just handing out the information to all members in the first place. If people question why priorities are set as they are, so be it. Mostly, I'd trust the membership to take in the information, and not become a pest about it. (Anymore than usual, that is. Ha)
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 6:24 am (Updated: May 11 '08, 6:32 am) |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: ladyconsumer On the other hand, I'd still probably opt for just handing out the information to all members in the first place. With the way things have been since the major update (I think Larry refers to it as Black Tuesday), I can see why. And with something that major, I don't think the CLs can disseminate the information down or do the crisis management, especially when they don't have much more information that the rest of us do.
On a day-to-day basis though, I see the benefit in CLs being true leaders in their categories for site questions coming from the membership for a few reasons. First, there are more CLs than there are community liasons, so more questions can be fielded thoughtfully. Second, changes on the site tend to affect different categories in different ways, and the CLs are, to at least some degree, experts in theirs. I would guess that Shantel is going to do a better job answering my questions about Wellness and Beauty than Almar will, provided she has the information she needs to answer it. Also, she's going to "get" my tirade about the display of supplements and mascara on the site and be able to translate my concerns and advocate on behalf of them to Almar if she feels that I have a concern that actually matters to the category overall as opposed to one that only matters to me.
I realize that it's somewhat controversial to see the value in the hierarchical structure here, but I do. CLs are more than middle(wo)men, and were incorporated into the design of the site for reasons that transcend the need for additions to the database.
ETA: I notice on these boards that when site management comes in to make a statement or an update, CLs ask questions that help them to get the whole picture whereas some members who don't have the experience and understanding of the site need help understanding the situation from square one. Many members (including CLs) do their best to bring those people up to speed, but I'm not convinced that they always understand how the topic of discussion is actually going to affect their user experience on the site. Information management that utilizes general newsletters and some of the higher-level conversations happening behind the scenes with CLs able to answer questions the right context might make the site a bit less confusing for members who come to the boards.
TBC |
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 6:41 am |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Continued . . .
Now, in my utopian Epinions world, Mona can still contact staff and get answers to questions either on the boards or via email, especially when her question matters to people other than her. And the site management still has to take responsibility for communicating major issues that affect all of the categories, and empower the CLs with all of the details they need. In some cases, CLs may just be sharing what they learned from site management verbatim, but I would hope that they would be the ones anticipating some of the questions pertaining to their categories before they are asked and help site management to prioritize a bit. |
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| KMINER |
Posted: May 11 '08, 7:52 am |
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Reviews written: 1005 Member since: Jan 17 '00
in Kids & Family |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Meagan -
I just wanted to chime in with a thought.
Some times CL's (current, past & future) have varying investments in the site. And currently I feel not all are active or always quickly accessible.
I certainly don't mean that being a part of this site precludes all other life's duties.
I just mean that I see them less and less happy along with the general membership, less and less answering emails, adding SAP's, reading & writing on the site -- and some seem disenchanted with the current state of things.
So adding them as another layer, to me, is only as effective as they want to be a part of that step.
Kimm
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 8:03 am |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: meagandowney - insinuator extraordinaire
As for the potential confusion created by segmenting the audience insinuated at by Mobiprof
Please stick to facts.
You insinuated separate communication for CLs. I did not, I suggested keeping things simple instead. I even already referred to the original epinions.com newsletter, The Epinions Advisor, which was published on-site.
I did not suggest confusion by segmentation. You did just now.
No drinks for you until you are sober enough to remember what you yourself wrote ;-)
- MobiProf
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 8:15 am |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: mobiprof Please stick to facts.
You insinuated separate communication for CLs. I did not, I suggested keeping things simple instead. I even already referred to the original epinions.com newsletter, The Epinions Advisor, which was published on-site.
I did not suggest confusion by segmentation. You did just now.
No drinks for you until you are sober enough to remember what you yourself wrote ;-)
- MobiProf
Mobi, I wasn't saying you suggested segmentation. I said you hinted at segmentation creating confusion - hence your call to keep it simple.
I apologize if that wasn't clear. |
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 8:16 am |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: KMINER Meagan -
I just wanted to chime in with a thought.
Some times CL's (current, past & future) have varying investments in the site. And currently I feel not all are active or always quickly accessible.
I certainly don't mean that being a part of this site precludes all other life's duties.
I just mean that I see them less and less happy along with the general membership, less and less answering emails, adding SAP's, reading & writing on the site -- and some seem disenchanted with the current state of things.
So adding them as another layer, to me, is only as effective as they want to be a part of that step.
Kimm
Very true, Kimm. I'm talking about my ideals, but there are certainly some cold hard realities that present challenges to these working at all. |
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 8:20 am (Updated: May 11 '08, 8:20 am) |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: meagandowney Mobi, I said you hinted at segmentation creating confusion
Yes you did - and now you repeat that even after I pointed out only you suggested confusion created by segmentation - just now, and just again.... Sigh.
It seems to me you are confused about the origin of the confusion you created in your confused mind.
Please take credit for all the confusion you yourself create about your confusion.
No drinks, and no bonbons either :-)
- MobiProf
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 11 '08, 8:36 am (Updated: May 11 '08, 8:40 am) |
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Reviews written: 601 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: ladyconsumer Pehr asked for suggestions.
Several people suggested a newletter-type information system.
I'm sure, even with limited staff, something can be done. My post to Meagan was specific about a list of bug fixes. I don't imagine that posting such a list is a lot of work. Surely, someone, somewhere, already has the list and knows the status of each one.
Bottom line - I agree with the notion of not promising huge, grand gestures that will never actually come to light. But I think some small promises can be made.
It will be up to Pehr & company to decide where the line gets drawn.
I didn't mean to shoot down anything you said. I just saw where Meagan was coming from.
But you're right. Almar and Pehr will have to find a happy medium and figure out how much they want to share. |
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| Pirich |
Posted: May 11 '08, 9:43 am |
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Reviews written: 137 Member since: Jul 03 '00
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A newsletter isn't what's needed
Let's go ahead and take a poke at the elephant in the room: Newsletters are cheery faces to the world publications. If we had a newsletter, it would have to be the Disney version of what's going on with the site.
What people are talking about here is a burning issue board.
Plagarism: That's huge- someone may decide to sue one of these days.
Treatment of Members: That's our survival. It needs to be policed.
Accurate plotting of traffic: Again, huge. People wonder if they are getting cheated for their work if that stays open.
We need a board where people can squawk problems and then rate how serious they are (Search can't find the #1 hottest product in the category vs. Someone suggesting the default background be changed to pale green).
And this would allow tracking, so there is some accountability. And the big one is setting priorities to make the site work. No name calling- just a working venue.
I have heard some responses to concerns along the lines of "you aren't one of the engineers" in the vein of "What do you know?" That isn't a constructive attitude. The membership is the only group of people who have an interest in honestly and accurately pointing out issues and methods to fix them. And that's right- we need to propose fixes and not just whine about what isn't perfect. While I am not one of the epinions engineers, I and one in real life, and I know there are a lot of epinions members with a lot of experience- it can be leveraged for good. It has to be.
But a newsletter isn't a mechanism to do what we want, though it will have lots of photos from the last meet and greet. No one is looking for whitewash- they want the house fixed. And there has to be a two-way discussion about what people can tell is broken, and what they just don't care about. There is a perception that a lot of the maintenance and site work is in the vein of modifying invisible items at the risk of breaking the site for reasons no user will ever see. Sort of like hearing the differential cover in your car is being replaced over and over while the front bumper is missing. If there was a burning issue board, there would be a spot to keep visibility to the important stuff, and get the word about what was being done about it, and take credit for good work. |
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 9:56 am |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: mobiprof Yes you did - and now you repeat that even after I pointed out only you suggested confusion created by segmentation - just now, and just again.... Sigh.
It seems to me you are confused about the origin of the confusion you created in your confused mind.
Please take credit for all the confusion you yourself create about your confusion.
No drinks, and no bonbons either :-)
- MobiProf Thanks for clearing that up.
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| rudixeno |
Posted: May 11 '08, 10:06 am |
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Reviews written: 195 Member since: Nov 14 '05
in Home & Garden |
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RE: A newsletter isn't what's needed
I'd guess you just said what most of the community is actually thinking.
Rudi |
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: May 11 '08, 10:15 am |
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Reviews written: 496 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: A newsletter isn't what's needed
Quote: rudixeno I'd guess you just said what most of the community is actually thinking.
Rudi
_Who_ said..?? (No, it is not clear to this reader.... I could guess, but is that effective communication..??)
Hopefully not mobi above. If so, I am still segmented, still confused, and a bit claustrophobic.
...tom...
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 10:40 am (Updated: May 11 '08, 10:41 am) |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: A newsletter isn't what's needed
Quote: Pirich Let's go ahead and take a poke at the elephant in the room . . .
A newsletter won't fix the house. To enumerate the benefits of this regular form of communication to every member (not just the ones who frequent this board) would insult your intelligence. I'm hoping you get the value of it beyond photos of M&G's and whitewash. If you don't, that's o.k. It's just one tool in the communications toolbox.
As for inviting members to help fix the legal or technical issues with the site, I respectfully disagree with you. I think it's inappropriate to engage members in that way. If we're talking about members taking a sneak peek at a new feature and giving management feedback before it's rolled out to everyone, that's one thing. But allowing everyone to list their issues and prioritize them collectively for staff is, in my opinion, not effective. The issues you laid out (copyright infringement, hit counts, etc.) are known problems, and if the staff doesn't know that they should be attended to, then the staff is incompetent. From what I've seen, the staff knows what the issues are and doesn't need help identifying them. They may need to hire additional staff to make the fixes happen, but we as members aren't going to be able to operate as employees.
That's just my opinion. I think it's admirable that members with expertise want to help, but beyond being patient and continuing to ask the right questions, I really don't know how else we can.
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 12:55 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 12:56 pm) |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: meagandowney Thanks for clearing that up.
You could have been nice and reasonable instead of choosing to use words like "insinuating".
You could have been factual instead of trying to twist things.
You could have admitted you were wrong, instead of trying to get a final patronising remark in.
You could have admitted you were wrong to try and twist words, and have moved on, but when you are called out on your behaviour, albeit in a perfectly reasonably manner, you choose to be annoying and worse.
I did not sidetrack by pointing out that not just your twist but your word choice was wrong too, but kindly replied using your choice word, and I have patiently parried your attitude with facts and wit.
I thus gave you a chance to end on a funny note.
I have to note that your behaviour - as a moderator no less - does not exactly set an example for members to follow.
It is behaviour like yours that keeps many newbies away from the board.
- MobiProf
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 1:05 pm |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: A newsletter isn't what's needed
Quote: Pirich Let's go ahead and take a poke at the elephant in the room: Newsletters are cheery faces to the world publications. If we had a newsletter, it would have to be the Disney version of what's going on with the site.
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Nail. Hammer. BAM! :-)
Quote: Pirich Treatment of Members....
...by epinions.com, by anyone with any kind of badge, and by everyone else. Many members have been scared away by (rating circles. Rating circles is one major issue that epinions.com has never addressed. Instead, epinions.com is content to give the most successful circle-raters one or more hats... making circle-rating even more worthwhile.
I still think the biggest issue remains that too little testing is done before changes are rolled out. The complaining about issues by many members we see now is not just about the current issues, however aggravating these may be, but about the fact that we have been here so many times before...
- MobiProf |
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 11 '08, 3:04 pm |
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Reviews written: 601 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
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RE: meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: mobiprof
I have to note that your behaviour - as a moderator no less - does not exactly set an example for members to follow.
It is behaviour like yours that keeps many newbies away from the board.
Your opinion. You're entitled to it. And I'm guessing it's a minority view point as I haven't received any e-mails from others that mirror your opinion about Meagan's mod skills.
I just wanted to put that out there for people who are new to this site and are reading this board for the first time.
This is a board of opinions, and one isn't more important than another.
But also, let's keep it clean. I don't want to lock this topic. It's a very good one.
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 3:20 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 3:43 pm) |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
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RE: meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: mobiprof You could have been nice and reasonable instead of choosing to use words like "insinuating". I don't apply an insidious nature to "insinuating" at all, Mobi. I'm sorry you did. I attempted to respond to a valid point you made in an earlier post. I attempted (and failed) to clarify my thoughts. I have already apologized to you, and will do so one more time for interchanging the terms "confusion" with "complicated." They apparently carry vastly different meanings in your mind. Your jest was responded to in kind. Nothing more, nothing less.
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