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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 3:23 pm |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
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RE: meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: roheblius I don't want to lock this topic. It's a very good one. True. Let's not let a miscommunication get in the way of it, especially considering the topic.
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:05 pm |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: roheblius Your opinion. You're entitled to it.
Thank you so much for your kind permission.
Quote: roheblius
...I haven't received any e-mails...
No of course not. To put it politely, many active members are aware that even the most valid and serious complaints from members and visitors disappear into your pet black hole.
Even the solicited CL feedback seems to end up there.
It is a long-standing complaint from many members that hats should be held to higher standards, yet I seem to recall you actually stating on this board that it is okay to let hats get away with things that get members ticketed.
- MobiProf
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:14 pm |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: gamblin_man It is refreshing to see you and Pehr working to reassure those of us who are considering giving up and taking our toys elsewhere. I, for one, am the recipient of many outside communications from folk who don't feel comfortable complaining here, but are asking why they should continue to support a site that seems not to be able to support itself. I just want to say that I think that says a great deal about your contributions to the site. I'm sorry that some members aren't comfortable airing their concerns here, but I'm glad that there's at least one person they feel they can turn to to give their honest feedback. Your advocacy on their behalf (not to mention your own) is admirable.
How do you handle those emails, aside from bringing those sentiments to the boards? |
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:24 pm |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: meagandowney I don't apply an insidious nature to "insinuating" at all, Mobi.
Good.
Quote: meagandowney I'm sorry you did.
I have specifically asked you to stick to facts.
And here you go again twisting things and making things up. Quell moderator....
Quote: meagandowney I have already apologized to you.
Read your own words "I said you hinted at segmentation creating confusion .... I apologize if that wasn't clear."
You use your "apology" to once again repeat your twist, and all you apologise for is not twisting clearly...
If you had really apologised for your twisting as some mistake I have would not have pointed out that your behaviour is unworthy of a moderator.
You have in fact done quite the opposite of apologising. You keep twisting things.
Quote: meagandowney and will do so one more time for interchanging the terms "confusion" with "complicated."
SOLID FACT: I did not use either word, so there was nothing to interchange....
A search for those words brings up your last post....
I find it hard to understand why you keep trying to twist things? And just how hard is it to admit that you twisted my comments and "responded" to the meagondowney-twisted remark, instead of my comments? What value does that offer to anyone?
- MobiProf
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:30 pm |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: mobiprof Let's make it as complex as possible!... or let's not, and keep things simple. That is more likely to be doable and actually work.
- MobiPractical
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:32 pm |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: gamblin_man I, for one, am the recipient of many outside communications from folk who don't feel comfortable complaining here
You are not the only one. I have been receiving such mails for years, even before this board was created.
I have even received mails reporting that CC is not acting on reports about serious abuse by a hatted member... :-(
There is of course little I can do but symphatise, advice or simply listen.
But it is sad that many members are not comfortable posting here, and see no use mailing community care - the net result is that their concerns are not addressed.
I do hope that epimanagement will consider these issues when restaffing the CC team.
- MobiProf |
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:33 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 5:37 pm) |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
I should have quoted you directly earlier. Complex, not complicated. |
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:38 pm |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: meagandowney ...and will do so one more time for interchanging the terms "confusion" with "complicated."
SOLID FACT: I did not use either word, so there was nothing to interchange....
A search for those words brings up your post....
I have stated a preference for simplicity over complexity.
All real and pretended confusion about insinuated confusion has been insinuated by you and you only.
- MobiProf |
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:48 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 5:53 pm) |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: meagandowney I should have quoted you directly earlier. Complex, not complicated.
No, you should first of all not have twisted things. Now, accidents happen of course, but after I took the trouble to correct what, at that point I and no doubt most others here were still willing to accept as some mistake caused by let's say hurried reading, thinking and writing, you could simply have said sorry and moved on.
Instead you started to try and "prove" that your twisting was right. On top of that, you do not apologise for twisting, but for not twisting clearly...
That's twisted indeed.
- MobiProf
edited to add: BTW, if you are uncomfortable saying things in public, you can do so by email.
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| meagandowney |
Posted: May 11 '08, 5:48 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 5:49 pm) |
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Reviews written: 358 Member since: Sep 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
This thread means something to me, so I've weighed in more than usual. I hope that people will feel comfortable continuing to discuss the topic at hand. I'm sure that Almar and other staff are interested in everyone's opinions - not just those by the people who have already had their say.
ETA: Mobi, if you'd like to continue our discussion via email, I'm happy to do so. |
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 11 '08, 6:17 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 6:18 pm) |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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constructive feedback
Quote: roheblius
Thank you for your constructive feedback.
You are welcome.
I wil gladly take some time to sit down with epimanagement to discuss what kind of emails I have received from members, including CLs, that express one or another dissatisfaction with actual practices.
- MobiProf
edited to add: roheb deleted his post? |
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| Penguinlady |
Posted: May 11 '08, 7:29 pm |
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Reviews written: 625 Member since: Dec 14 '99
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It's really discouraging
I just sigh and shrug when I think about the fact that the wretched "Search" function that didn't work in 1999 still doesn't work, and for the same reasons: outrageous duplication in every category I've searched in, inability to search by more than one criterion at a time, inability of the Search function to recognize what's right under its nose...
The list goes on, and I could probably quote you every excuse that's been offered in the past 8+ years.
And so far, they've all amounted to the same thing: "We're working on it."
Meanwhile, the PTBs go off in other directions, like mergers, and combining databases when the one we've got doesn't work very well, and promotions that encourage mobs of SH reviews.
At this point, I can't think of anything the managers could tell me that would make me feel optimistic about the future of the site, because I've heard 'em all. I'm not an engineer, and I don't know what it takes to fix Search, but I do know that ANYTHING can be fixed in eight years, and this hasn't been.
So short of some real, hard, specific, tecnhnical (which I wouldn't understand anyway,) time-limit-driven information, I'm just as happy not listening to vague promises that "we're working on it."
But I agree with the people who advocate for a monthly State-of-the-site e-mail.
Meanwhile, I ignore 10-4-10 and just keep cranking out the reviews, grumpy as ever, with no expectation that Search will ever work properly, or that we'll ever get any real take-it-to-the-bank information.
Margaret |
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| shopaholic_man |
Posted: May 11 '08, 7:45 pm |
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Reviews written: 1046 Member since: Feb 15 '04
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RE: It's really discouraging
Quote: Penguinlady
Meanwhile, I ignore 10-4-10 and just keep cranking out the reviews, grumpy as ever, with no expectation that Search will ever work properly, or that we'll ever get any real take-it-to-the-bank information.
Margaret
The power to change what we can change, and to recognize and accept that which we can't! Wow Margaret, you've been writing quality reviews since the site started! I truly think most people find our opinions via google anyway. Whenever I want anything on the net, I go to google it first. I hope you keep it up, even if the search engine never works. (We'll still find your reviews!) |
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| Penguinlady |
Posted: May 11 '08, 7:50 pm (Updated: May 11 '08, 9:12 pm) |
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Reviews written: 625 Member since: Dec 14 '99
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: Pirich The way people find our reviews now is through Google searches.
Actually, not everything does show up on Google searches. I've done a LOT of Google searches that came up empty, and when I asked the CL to SAP it for me, I got a return message with a link that was there all the time.
I know people are tired of my grumping about it, but I really don't know how a product review site that depends on people being able to find the reviews can function with a largely non-functional Search. What I do know is that not one of my friends will use Epinions to read a product review, because they all got disgusted when they couldn't find what they wanted. Even when I was able to send them the link at a later time.
Margaret One-note
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| millinocket |
Posted: May 11 '08, 8:15 pm |
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Reviews written: 485 Member since: Aug 24 '02
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Mobi, knock it off. Semantic nitpicking that ends up locking a thread that's really important to the site and the members right now is lunacy. Leave it be.
Anyway - I am more than willing to go through and pass on information as it pertains to Movies. If there are issues that apply specifically to Movies (and there are), Almar may not be as versed in the specifics as I am. Not because I have more information or knowledge or ability than anyone else, but because things already filter through me - and the other CLs - members write with problems or questions and we troubleshoot and poke around in the category every day.
One benefit to passing info to the CLs is that there are fewer of us and using the message board is a viable option for disseminating information to everyone who needs it.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be a newsletter, I'm just saying that if Eps staff wants to have the CLs pass category specific information on, I'm happy to do that.
Expressing my own frustration doesn't make me less invested in the site or less willing to do what I can to help the staff. If anything, it makes me more motivated to help if I can. One of the things that is most frustrating, I think, for all of us, is the feeling that we can't help.
As always, my two cents only, which will probably inadvertently kill the thread, for which I will apologize in advance.
Sue (known inadvertent thread killer)
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| Penguinlady |
Posted: May 11 '08, 9:06 pm |
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Reviews written: 625 Member since: Dec 14 '99
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RE: meagandowney moderator example?
Quote: mobiprof Quell moderator....
- MobiProf
Assuming that you aren't trying to put the moderator down - not a safe assumption, from what I see here - I believe the spelling you want is quelle, as in the French for "what a (female)(moderator)"!
Either way, don't you think this pot-shotting has gone on long enough? Give it up, man.
Margaret
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| Penguinlady |
Posted: May 11 '08, 9:11 pm |
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Reviews written: 625 Member since: Dec 14 '99
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RE: It's really discouraging
Quote: shopaholic_man ...Wow Margaret, you've been writing quality reviews since the site started! I truly think most people find our opinions via google anyway. Whenever I want anything on the net, I go to google it first. I hope you keep it up, even if the search engine never works. (We'll still find your reviews!)
Thanks for the kind words! Actually, I have some reviews posted that are almost impossible to find because they don't fit neatly into any category but have been shoved somewhere. And because the link thread across the tops of our review pages is incomplete, some of mine will never be found unless someone stumbles across them. Even Google can't find 'em.
Pretty dispiriting when you work hard on a review and it's well-nigh impossible to find...
Margaret
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| abhaille |
Posted: May 11 '08, 9:17 pm |
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Reviews written: 223 Member since: Dec 12 '99
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
I didn't know about the SAP for a while. I believe that I suggested some things to CL's and got no response.
I don't know the scale. If I was a CL, I don't know how many emails one might get in a day to add listings.
I'm a seller on Amazon and I have to add listings all the dang time. I sell a lot of obscure books that don't have existing listings. It takes less than five minutes to create a listing from scratch. If I got ten requests a day, that's fifty minutes. Is that a reasonable amount of time to request from a lead?
I don't know. I don't know what is really required of such positions.
I did finally get a response on SAP submissions (once I figured out how to make one.). It was very congenial. |
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| Pirich |
Posted: May 11 '08, 10:32 pm |
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Reviews written: 137 Member since: Jul 03 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: Penguinlady Actually, not everything does show up on Google searches. I've done a LOT of Google searches that came up empty, and when I asked the CL to SAP it for me, I got a return message with a link that was there all the time.
I know people are tired of my grumping about it, but I really don't know how a product review site that depends on people being able to find the reviews can function with a largely non-functional Search. What I do know is that not one of my friends will use Epinions to read a product review, because they all got disgusted when they couldn't find what they wanted. Even when I was able to send them the link at a later time.
Margaret One-note
That's just it- It isn't just you. Everyone else sees this. I have a product I reviewed called in the epinions listing (cut and pasted for accuracy): Astronomy Technologies Astro-Tech AT66ED 66mm f/6 ED refractor. No combination of any of those words used in any way with the Epinions search engine will bring that item up, including surfing through categories of related products. The only link I have ever found here to get there is through my own review history. But it will show as one of the first 5 hits in a Google search. Back when the iPhone first came out and Epinions was promising to drop some money on whoever wrote a VH review on it first, I tried to find it in the search engine- no dice.
What is amazing is how this fails in such weird ways. It is like someone is manually linking these and it isn't really a search engine at all. And the reason it never seems to get fixed is they have no hope of keeping up with products being added, much less dealing with things inaccurately added in the past. But if you look at a similar web site, like adorama, it all works like a well oiled machine, and they have little spots for reviews which show up on cue.
This is an old gripe, and it doesn't seem to improve. It's just broken, and either you land on something correctly attached, or you are doomed. Would it really be so bad to use Google's engine? Folks assume that sort of performance these days. If you don't have a functioning search function, they assume there is something wrong with you. They let people do that. Then the staff would be able to look around and see what else they want to do. |
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| Pirich |
Posted: May 11 '08, 11:04 pm |
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Reviews written: 137 Member since: Jul 03 '00
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RE: A newsletter isn't what's needed
Quote: meagandowney A newsletter won't fix the house. To enumerate the benefits of this regular form of communication to every member (not just the ones who frequent this board) would insult your intelligence. I'm hoping you get the value of it beyond photos of M&G's and whitewash. If you don't, that's o.k. It's just one tool in the communications toolbox.
As for inviting members to help fix the legal or technical issues with the site, I respectfully disagree with you. I think it's inappropriate to engage members in that way. If we're talking about members taking a sneak peek at a new feature and giving management feedback before it's rolled out to everyone, that's one thing. But allowing everyone to list their issues and prioritize them collectively for staff is, in my opinion, not effective. The issues you laid out (copyright infringement, hit counts, etc.) are known problems, and if the staff doesn't know that they should be attended to, then the staff is incompetent. From what I've seen, the staff knows what the issues are and doesn't need help identifying them. They may need to hire additional staff to make the fixes happen, but we as members aren't going to be able to operate as employees.
That's just my opinion. I think it's admirable that members with expertise want to help, but beyond being patient and continuing to ask the right questions, I really don't know how else we can.
First, I don't want anyone to think I am belittling the concept of having a newsletter. My point is we're talking about issues which never, ever have business showing up in newsletters. Declarations of war, fire evacuations, company lay-offs, and technical problem reporting just aren't the subjects of publicly available newsletters. And the issues we are talking about here aren't appropriate for a newsletter. I think it would be nice to have one to help give an orientation to new members. I can't imagine a reason on this earth to give a new member a discussion about anonymous rating assassination, multiple accounts, or the broken search engine in a newsletter. Newsletters have their place, and action boards do also.
On inviting members to help, I need to point out several things:
(1) I have a heavy-duty bias in this area. I've spent my life in jobs where mistakes mean people die. As a result, I have learned to have very little respect for organizational boundaries when part of the mission isn't getting done. If it's got to get fixed, nothing can be allowed to interfere. Yes, I know the epinions staff has been staring at some of these issues until they are ready to scream. And they still aren't fixed. So it seems apparent the toolbox they are using doesn't have what they need to do the job. If one of us knows a way, why not let it be heard? If the site started working better, won't everyone be happy?
(2) We are Epinions employees. That is why you were required to give your SSN over to get a W-2 form. So let's act like we care and help where we can.
(3) We are the content source. Epinions has a real problem if it doesn't have any reviews for people to look up and generate hits to the site. If we are having a problem, it needs to be heard with a real estimate of how serious it is [Fix C before L]. We can't act like we are just the fans writing in to the Battlestar Galactica site. We are what pushes this ship forward, so we need to look after the boat, and the skipper needs to know how to do the same for us. |
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