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| Pirich |
Posted: May 13 '08, 9:41 pm |
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Reviews written: 137 Member since: Jul 03 '00
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RE: Employment and the User Agreement
Quote: meagandowney Hi Pirich - I think that your post has a lot of value, and I'm sure that many members shook their heads in agreement when they read it. The only part of it that I would like to respond to is this.
We don't get W-2's - we get 1099's if we (American members) make more than $600 in income. We get those because we are self-employed and declaring taxable income on our own. We aren't employees of Shopping.com, as per the user agreement which states "This Agreement does not create any agency, partnership, joint venture, employment or franchise relationship. Because you are not an employee, minimum wage laws do not apply to your relationship with the Shopping.com Network."
I doubt you're the only member who believes we are employees, but we are most definitely not.
OK, the legal distinction stands, as it does make life easier for me to have a regular employer.
However, the main motivation I had in the comment was the role epinions reviewers have is vastly different than usual site soliciting reviews, like online retailers. In those cases, reviewers have no continuing voice of governance in the site, much less a role in operating it.
We've all banded together to make a go of this. Notice how long the bulk of the people writing in to this thread have been around. These are people in it for the long haul, who joined this when it was a startup because they believed in it. We really do act like employees, and we make money that way.
And what that says to me is we need to remember why we are here, why we care, and act like it. If we think we are helping by letting difficult problems build, even as people we know make comments like, "I looked on that Epinions site you mentioned, but it seems to have problems with navigation," what exactly are we helping? We aren't helping the site we have all put time into building. And we certainly aren't serving ourselves well that way. There is only one tenable answer: We need to recognize we are where we are, and we need to make things better. |
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 13 '08, 10:00 pm |
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Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
 in Music |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: Pirich
A second thing going on is Google has set the standard for how people Google for information. Google has taught people a set of expectations for how a search engine should perform. And Google has trained them in what to look for when a search is working or not. What people are saying is Epinions needs to appear to work to a net-savvy user who happens across it.
I agree with everything you are saying, but Google isn't necessarily fit to help Epinions in the way it needs to be. Also, Google is looking for content as a way to sell their ads and Google links. All of the content on our site is in reviews. It makes sense as to why we come up strongly in searches.
It's not the answer for us, but we all know that search performs poorly for reviewers and those searching for reviews. I'm hopeful that gets improved. |
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| ssjakira1 |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:05 am |
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Reviews written: 750 Member since: May 13 '03
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Ok, maybe it's just me, and I really don't mean to be rude or non-appreciative, but it just makes me wonder about priorities and just how many people are actually working on things as a whole.
Some of you may still not be able to see it - maybe it's just when you get into www99 mode (as I realized I am in again)- that you see the new (or beta, whichever it's supposed to/going to be) style with the tabs (in case you haven't seen them).
Ok, um, why are we working on this? While tabs are neat, why are we bothering with them when there are obviously SO many things that need to be fixed first? I can't seem to wrap my little brain around it. All it does is change the style of the page - that's it. I notice on another page I'm on (product that hasn't been reviewed yet) that price comparison links appear more readily available even while reading a review. I suppose this is to generate more revenue, but still, I don't know why this is being worked on when the search engine is ridiculous and people worry that hits are getting beyond help.
Ok, maybe I'm stretching, but listings are still jacked up and the search is still - well we know what it is. I just don't get why this new thing is even out there with so many other hiccups around. Isn't this sort of counting chickens before they're hatched?
NT |
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| smorg |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:15 am |
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Reviews written: 210 Member since: Jul 03 '06
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priority list?
Quote: ssjakira1 I don't know why this is being worked on when the search engine is ridiculous and people worry that hits are getting beyond help.
I'll second that, I think.... having got a third email from non-members in two weeks asking why they can't find my reviews (that they know exist, having read them before) by searching for the product on Epinions' search engine... I told them the 'use google and put site:epinions.com behind the terms they're searching for' trick. Hopefully it'll work well... though it is embarrassing!
On another note, I think the overall hit counts on the profile page are getting updated sooner now. I'm seeing them updated every morning now. As late as last week sometimes they didn't update until late in the next day (or two) for me.
Smorg |
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| smorg |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:19 am |
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Reviews written: 210 Member since: Jul 03 '06
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RE: priority list?
...on yet another note... Now that the thread that was supposed to be pinned at the top of the board to update others on the status of things on the site is locked without any reason given. How is communication getting any better? |
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:28 am |
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Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: ssjakira1 Ok, maybe it's just me, and I really don't mean to be rude or non-appreciative, but it just makes me wonder about priorities and just how many people are actually working on things as a whole.
Some of you may still not be able to see it - maybe it's just when you get into www99 mode (as I realized I am in again)- that you see the new (or beta, whichever it's supposed to/going to be) style with the tabs (in case you haven't seen them).
Ok, um, why are we working on this? While tabs are neat, why are we bothering with them when there are obviously SO many things that need to be fixed first? I can't seem to wrap my little brain around it. All it does is change the style of the page - that's it. I notice on another page I'm on (product that hasn't been reviewed yet) that price comparison links appear more readily available even while reading a review. I suppose this is to generate more revenue, but still, I don't know why this is being worked on when the search engine is ridiculous and people worry that hits are getting beyond help.
Ok, maybe I'm stretching, but listings are still jacked up and the search is still - well we know what it is. I just don't get why this new thing is even out there with so many other hiccups around. Isn't this sort of counting chickens before they're hatched?
NT
Those improvements aren't just tabs. They are enhancements to be able to monetize those review pages.
That has been in the pipeline for a very long time and I'm sure was just next on the list to be placed in beta. |
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:29 am |
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Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
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RE: priority list?
Quote: smorg ...on yet another note... Now that the thread that was supposed to be pinned at the top of the board to update others on the status of things on the site is locked without any reason given. How is communication getting any better?
That thread was supposed to be a thread with answers to many important questions members were asking. It has been locked and pinned for a while. But people have been circumventing the lock with the same information that is in every other thread on this board. No one is now just locking it. It was already locked. But it's now not as useful.
I'm sure one of the Mods will come up with a solution so the good information in that thread will still be pinned and locked somehow.
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:37 am |
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Reviews written: 674 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: ssjakira1 Ok, maybe it's just me, and I really don't mean to be rude or non-appreciative, but it just makes me wonder about priorities and just how many people are actually working on things as a whole.
Some of you may still not be able to see it - maybe it's just when you get into www99 mode (as I realized I am in again)- that you see the new (or beta, whichever it's supposed to/going to be) style with the tabs (in case you haven't seen them).
Ok, um, why are we working on this? While tabs are neat, why are we bothering with them when there are obviously SO many things that need to be fixed first? I can't seem to wrap my little brain around it. All it does is change the style of the page - that's it. I notice on another page I'm on (product that hasn't been reviewed yet) that price comparison links appear more readily available even while reading a review. I suppose this is to generate more revenue, but still, I don't know why this is being worked on when the search engine is ridiculous and people worry that hits are getting beyond help.
Ok, maybe I'm stretching, but listings are still jacked up and the search is still - well we know what it is. I just don't get why this new thing is even out there with so many other hiccups around. Isn't this sort of counting chickens before they're hatched?
NT
I understand your question. But I'll give benefit of the doubt, and assume that there are separate teams assigned to various types of issues. So one team working on, say, format changes can make headway even if the team working on search issues is stuck.
But, as I've stated time and time again, a list of "known issues" and their statuses would stop people from wondering just what the priority list is. I feel this would help, as I've mentioned many times in the past, and again just recently, when Pehr asked for suggestions.
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| scmrak |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:39 am |
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Reviews written: 1378 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: roheblius That has been in the pipeline for a very long time... As was noted somewhere else the tabbed look was developed for the Autos section last year. The changes in that category's "look-and-feel" were in part responses to suggestions from a company with significant contributions to the category's income. So the framework for the tabbed appearance has been in place for several months - and at the time it was rolled out, I remember Andy saying that it would eventually be applied across the breadth of the site.
Besides, people who specialilze in programming user interfaces probably aren't able to help much with the search engine and database debugging process.
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| smorg |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:47 am |
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Reviews written: 210 Member since: Jul 03 '06
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RE: priority list?
Quote: roheblius That thread was supposed to be a thread with answers to many important questions members were asking. It has been locked and pinned for a while. But people have been circumventing the lock with the same information that is in every other thread on this board. No one is now just locking it. It was already locked. But it's now not as useful.
I'm sure one of the Mods will come up with a solution so the good information in that thread will still be pinned and locked somehow.
I'm not here as often as most others here, but I don't think I've seen that thread locked, Garrett (and when I reposted Andy's updates on the search engine a few months ago I didn't have to do anything to circumnavigate any lock). I've seen it pinned, though, which it isn't now.
But what exactly is that thread's function if not for the useful information that pop up in various threads that come and go to be put there so people don't have to go fish and wade through hundreds of posts in various other threads to be able to catch up on how the various bugs are being fixed? |
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 14 '08, 10:56 am |
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Reviews written: 674 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: priority list?
Quote: roheblius That thread was supposed to be a thread with answers to many important questions members were asking. It has been locked and pinned for a while. But people have been circumventing the lock with the same information that is in every other thread on this board. No one is now just locking it. It was already locked. But it's now not as useful.
I'm sure one of the Mods will come up with a solution so the good information in that thread will still be pinned and locked somehow.
I thought it had been pinned, but not locked. Now it seems to be locked and not pinned.
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| pvreditor |
Posted: May 14 '08, 11:19 am |
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Reviews written: 405 Member since: May 31 '02
in Cars, Home & Garden, Musical Equipment |
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RE: priority list?
Quote: ladyconsumer I thought it had been pinned, but not locked. Now it seems to be locked and not pinned.
That thread was both pinned AND locked since early April, actually. It is now both un-pinned and un-locked, since the pertinent information has been posted in a new thread. That new thread is both pinned and locked.
Sorry for all the confusion on this one, which was completely my doing. Still learning this mod thing after four years...
--Bob |
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| popsrocks |
Posted: May 14 '08, 11:30 am |
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Reviews written: 2202 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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RE: priority list?
Quote: roheblius That thread was supposed to be a thread with answers to many important questions members were asking. It has been locked and pinned for a while. But people have been circumventing the lock with the same information that is in every other thread on this board. No one is now just locking it. It was already locked. But it's now not as useful..
I agree, the useful information was getting repeated stuff piled on to the point where it wasn't really that helpful any longer.
Quote: roheblius
I'm sure one of the Mods will come up with a solution so the good information in that thread will still be pinned and locked somehow.
Quote: pvreditor ... That new thread is both pinned and locked...
--Bob
Ya done good, BOB!!
pops
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 14 '08, 11:58 am |
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Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
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RE: priority list?
Quote: smorg I'm not here as often as most others here, but I don't think I've seen that thread locked, Garrett (and when I reposted Andy's updates on the search engine a few months ago I didn't have to do anything to circumnavigate any lock). I've seen it pinned, though, which it isn't now.
It could've been locked so that trolls didn't mess with it. But I know it's been locked for a little while.
Quote: smorg But what exactly is that thread's function if not for the useful information that pop up in various threads that come and go to be put there so people don't have to go fish and wade through hundreds of posts in various other threads to be able to catch up on how the various bugs are being fixed?
I didn't quite get that. Can you please restate?
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| smorg |
Posted: May 14 '08, 12:13 pm (Updated: May 14 '08, 12:15 pm) |
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Reviews written: 210 Member since: Jul 03 '06
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RE: priority list?
Quote: pvreditor That thread was both pinned AND locked since early April, actually. It is now both un-pinned and un-locked, since the pertinent information has been posted in a new thread. That new thread is both pinned and locked.
Sorry for all the confusion on this one, which was completely my doing. Still learning this mod thing after four years...
--Bob
Bob fixed it well, I say! It's where it should be again and has all the good info. Thanks! :o)
Quote: roheblius It could've been locked so that trolls didn't mess with it. But I know it's been locked for a little while.
Quote: roheblius I didn't quite get that. Can you please restate?
There was no troll messing with it, though. Just one of them many days ago (and just one comment). It somehow got locked and unpinned earlier today, which was why I protested. Had it remained that way the post would have just slid off the first page into oblivion.
On the question, I understood the function of that thread to be the place where the info pertinent to the status of things on this site that pop up at various different threads recorded there (along with what Eps wants to update the membership on), so that people don't have to go and hunt for various bits of info hidden in the many different threads that 'come and go' on the board.
If you hang out here all the time you'd get annoyed that different people keep popping up to ask the same questions about the most problematic things on the site (like the search function or hit-counter or visibility of reviews) you think you've answered many times before, but the thing is the different people don't know that the questions were asked and answered because there wasn't a single central post they could look for those info (though I also note that that status of things thread wasn't kept updated with info for much of the time. At least it has some good info.. and thanks again to Bob for putting a cleaned up version of it back and pinned at the top again). If you don't practically live on these message boards, though... it's tough getting info on what's going on with the site.
edited to fix the quote html code |
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 14 '08, 12:35 pm |
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Reviews written: 674 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: priority list?
Quote: smorg If you don't practically live on these message boards, though... it's tough getting info on what's going on with the site.
I live on the boards, and I still have trouble keeping up.
Good job, Bob.
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| roheblius |
Posted: May 14 '08, 1:01 pm (Updated: May 14 '08, 1:02 pm) |
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Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
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RE: priority list?
Quote: smorg It somehow got locked and unpinned earlier today, which was why I protested. Had it remained that way the post would have just slid off the first page into oblivion.
Unpinning it and leaving it locked was just one of the things that happened while we were trying to figure out what to do. It was part of the process to get to the the end decision.
Quote: smorg If you hang out here all the time you'd get annoyed that different people keep popping up to ask the same questions about the most problematic things on the site (like the search function or hit-counter or visibility of reviews) you think you've answered many times before, but the thing is the different people don't know that the questions were asked and answered because there wasn't a single central post they could look for those info (though I also note that that status of things thread wasn't kept updated with info for much of the time. At least it has some good info.. and thanks again to Bob for putting a cleaned up version of it back and pinned at the top again). If you don't practically live on these message boards, though... it's tough getting info on what's going on with the site.
edited to fix the quote html code
I don't have an issue with people asking the same questions.
As it is, with so many people looking for information, I'm not sure we could create an end all be all thread that we can point to that answers everything. We'll just have to be consistent with our information and persistent with answering everyone's questions to the best of our abilities.
Thanks for clearing it up for me. |
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 14 '08, 1:18 pm |
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Reviews written: 674 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: priority list?
Quote: roheblius Unpinning it and leaving it locked was just one of the things that happened while we were trying to figure out what to do. It was part of the process to get to the the end decision.
I don't have an issue with people asking the same questions.
As it is, with so many people looking for information, I'm not sure we could create an end all be all thread that we can point to that answers everything. We'll just have to be consistent with our information and persistent with answering everyone's questions to the best of our abilities.
Thanks for clearing it up for me.
Or, we could refer them to the newletter. Hint, hint.
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| smorg |
Posted: May 14 '08, 1:27 pm (Updated: May 14 '08, 1:28 pm) |
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Reviews written: 210 Member since: Jul 03 '06
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RE: priority list?
Quote: roheblius Unpinning it and leaving it locked was just one of the things that happened while we were trying to figure out what to do. It was part of the process to get to the the end decision.
Yup, I realize that now. Though it probably would have been better if it was openly communicated what was being done to it before hand.
Quote: roheblius
As it is, with so many people looking for information, I'm not sure we could create an end all be all thread that we can point to that answers everything. We'll just have to be consistent with our information and persistent with answering everyone's questions to the best of our abilities.
I'm not looking for a single thread that answers everything, bro. Though if that Status of Things thread is kept updated with the info on issues that are high on the priority list of what is bugging members, then it should cut down on the number of redundant posts/threads that ask the same questions, I think.
Progress counts. You might not have the end solution for everything on that thread, but as long as the answer/updates/progress-reports on most of the issues that matter are available to us in that thread (and hopefully at other places where members who don't frequent the boards can easily access... like in that site status bar on the profile page or a newsletter (thanks, Mona!)), then I suspect you'll see a lot less griping on these boards. |
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| Pirich |
Posted: May 14 '08, 9:43 pm |
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Reviews written: 137 Member since: Jul 03 '00
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RE: priority list?
Quote: ladyconsumer Or, we could refer them to the newletter. Hint, hint.
Yeah, but then we have a Newsletter which says:
Search: Epinions has a search function, but you may notice it behaves strangely, and you can't use it to find many of the articles on the site. This is because it is set up to only give you a result if it has an incoming revenue stream for that specific hit, so it's working; just not the way users would identify as "Working."
Hit Counting: You'll notice the hit counters do not keep up with traffic on your reviews. So, for example, if 18 people log on and check out your new review and rate it, you will see within the review it has been rated by 18 people, with their user names. But the hit counts may be 3. This is just the way it is. Eventually you will see at least 18 hits, and you'll just have to wonder if you are being compensated or not. But look on the bright side, you finally have some proof you aren't just paranoid.
User Abuse: Look, I'd have a nice writeup for you on this, but I find myself becoming emotionally unstable as I automatically think back on past events. So, I'm going to take a few minutes to calm down and sip a drink of water.
OK, let ME write the newsletter. |
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