I will start a new thread about the unwritten rule forbidding the posting of links on the General Message Board.

Diana

Good idea to get back on topic--the topic being that searching is not getting better.

The latest "improvement" (seemingly today is epinions displaying "No reviews yet" at the top of the page of a review. This is just so encouraging to writers of reviews! (I will forego providing the link to my most recent posting that shows this, especially since, as noted, I am barred from editing my Message Board postings.

I am going to bar myself from looking at Message Board postings, though I'm hoping that someone will explain to me what "Vertical temporary unavailable", why it has started appearing and how long "temporary" is (another thread, though sharing the concern with our work being rendered invisible).

Before tearing myself away, let me point out that having posted more epinions than almost anyone, I would love to be wrong that what is in epinions is becoming less visible. This thread is one of sorrow and frustration rather than glee. I would so like the VH reviews on epinions to be seen by vaster and vaster multitudes!

The reason why Bob, Mark and myself get a small stipend at the end of every month is because we're charged with taking care of issues on the boards. Someone decided we were worthy of the task, which any member is free to dispute with Epinions staff. Because we're paid to take care of business, we don't share the ins and outs of every decision with the rest of the community, but right now I think that the community's trust in anyone who has any power (whether they have the power to do something as great as tweak the database or as minute as lock a thread) is compromised, I will take a stab at giving some background to what happened to the thread you (Stephen) contributed to which was subsequently allowed to float down off of the first page. I do this in an effort to provide you with some context and transparency in the hope that you will see that there was/is no conspiracy to "shut up" members or shut down threads that voice real concerns about what's happening on the site.

I fear I'll exceed my character limit with not much more than that preface, so TBC . . .

I made the decision to pin a thread that clearly identified the major site issues (i.e., search, hit counts, and MPR/MPA lists) and in which staff responded with the official word on status. I made that decision and had support from my co-mods because members continued to come in to the boards asking for the same information in slightly different ways and I felt that these issues would continue to weigh on peoples' minds. I pinned the thread not only to avoid duplicate threads on the same important topic but also to show any members who happened upon the boards that staff had indeed responded in some way. I also saw it as an opportunity to house updates in one spot to avoid confusion or the community having to dig through several threads to get the most recent answer. This thread was left pinned and open for weeks that turned into a few months.

When the boards were massively attacked by troll activity, many members (including mods) did their best to keep threads on topic and I locked the thread because the troll posted in it. I locked it down knowing that site staff could easily unlock and update it if there were any updates to give. Other discussions among members in other threads continued to thrive around the intracacies of the same issues, and those remained open. Still, I thought it was helpful to the general community to have one somewhat decisive thread that clearly identified the major issues and offered any and all official updates as they became available.

Again, TBC . . .

A few members innocently posted a reply to that locked thread. It's a known bug. Any member can post in locked threads with multiple pages of posts. My co-mod realized that keeping that locked (but not really) thread pinned to the top of the boards was not the best solution to providing the community a direct outline of the issues along with the staff's response to those issues, so he created a new one summarizing that conversation.

He also invited the members (including you) who had further discussion to feel free to start a new thread dedicated to it in an attempt to keep some of the more basic information easily accessible to the message board community. Active discussions are still seen by visitors to the boards very near to the pinned threads. The goal was never to quell the disenchantment with the site or its issues, but rather to separate the basic information from the more involved discussions.

I can see why it might seem like we wanted a "nice" thread sitting on the top of the board and why it looked to you like we were trying to get rid of it the moment people came in to challenge the official word, but the fact is that several people had challenged the official word within it already, many weeks ago. The most recent concerns are no less relevant than earlier ones - I'm just making the point that we aren't afraid of good community discussion. On the contrary, we're trying to facilitate it with limited tools at our disposal.

With that goal in mind, links to member reviews are not allowed on this board. Threads with posts that link to reviews, unfortunately, must be deleted in their entirety if those posting links are unwilling to edit their posts to remove links to reviews and writer's corner pieces. I, as a mod, hate to do this - not just because it stifles a voice rather than facilitates further discussion, but also because these threads often contain productive discussion that get people thinking and - perhaps - changing for the better. That is why you'll notice mods, staff and members asking you to remove your link rather than do what's easiest, which is deleting the thread. It might be easier as a mod for me to delete this entire thread rather than compose long posts in it, but it isn't better. I would prefer getting past the link hump and continuing to discuss the meat of your posts which are strong enough and articulate enough not to rely on links to your own work on this site.

So, I hope you'll consider doing everything in your power to explore your post editing functions and remove the links so that the community can focus on what's really important to you - accountability and improvements on the site. I have attempted to provide you with some degree of accountability and transparency here by explaining our actions as moderators. Can't fix the site for you (or for me, for that matter), but I can give you an explanation about how I've exercised limited power on the boards. Your voice is important, and our decisions were not in any way meant to diminish its importance.

I don't know why anyone would question Stephen's long commitment to this site when he simply pointed out that there are serious problems with the search function and claiming that "it is always improving" is simply not true. And the issue of linking to an essay is a side issue that distracts entirely from his main point. No one has explained why his question and those of others was removed. It was a legitimate discusion with a lot of good information. I haven't checked yet but I assume my notes about the dropoff in hits disappeared, too. Like Stephen, I have not been a contributor to the message boards until recently. I've been very surprised by the urge to silence all complaints and don't find that a healthy approach at all. Epinions has been a very useful site over the years but something is truly amiss here and squelching commentary about it is not the way to fix it.

This comment is exactly right:
I find it hard to understand how two pages of this thread can be relegated to discussing whether or not a link to a Writers Corner piece that earns no IS anyway is or isn't allowed when the overall thrust of the original posting and the few on topic posts is that things are just simply not working and is something that is vitally important. It was something important enough to get Stephen to post here when he's never been on the boards - if that's the case, think of all the members and how we are all feeling about the current state of affairs. It's hard not to be worried.

I think anyone who visits these boards knows that there are some things that are broken in the Epi System and they've been broken for quite some time. I know it frustrates me to the point of screaming at my screen.

But let's remember that we're a community who have known one another for quite some time. I'd like to urge everyone to be civil. Hopefully the problems will be fixed. But damage to our relationships here in the community can be damaged beyond repair. Let's not allow this to happen. And trust me, I know I have to keep this in mind no less than anyone else.

Rudi

Stephen:

You hit the nail on the head. The warning about links on the message board is less about a link issue and more about spinning and controlling the message. The message boards have approached a level of group-think and happy-talk that is astounding to someone who joined epinions early-on.

People complain about trolls but the real problem is that nothing of substance can be discussed on the message boards if the discussion does not dovetail with the official word from the site minders, hall monitors, and other assorted wanna-bes that habituate the message boards like it’s their own personal space.

With the mothersite in such a state of flux, it is clear that the bulletin boards bring out the nutjobs, conspiracy theorists, and other assorted idiots that populate the site. That’s a given. Unfortunately, many of these same people dominate any discussion on the message boards. The chicken littles have come home to roost. It's about 15-25 people that make it difficult for the "live and let live'rs" and make the message boards the last place to try to have any kind of long-term nuanced discussion of the site’s failures and successes.

Beyond that, one may sense (rightly or wrongly), that site priorities will not be met in the coming months due to the staffing upheaval. That will lead to more nonsense by the self-described epinions' experts on the message boards. And, the constant 10-4-10 promotion is leading to what, I'm not sure, but there's definitely some cultural changing of the guard going on, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I do think the site is becoming far too literal minded and though the new content providers are grinding out reviews after reviews, it does seem the quality is falling by a large margin. The site is also becoming more boring, static and uninviting, even with some of the style changes being made recently (tabs anyone?).

The search engine and database issue has gone on far too long. That is the site’s bread and butter (community benefits are secondary to that), and there is far too much discussion about nonsense issues than fixing the problem.

In my mind, the message boards have failed to live up to their promise and are more of a detriment to the site than anything else. I would ditch them in place of a sustained posting on the member center on site fixes, priorities, and timeframes. Nothing else from management until the database-search engine issue is fixed. The fact that some people are excited about a proposed newsletter is even more disturbing.

I do think the site is entering into a “make or break” period and may not survive as a going-concern due to the poor management decisions that have been its hallmark since the beginning (much as AggieBrett pointed out in his recent WaterCloset piece).

So, in future, you’re better off writing something like this on the WaterCloset rather than entering the Message Board arena. You can never win, debate, discuss, or apologize enough with these people. And, at least WC pieces can be flushed. Cheers

Flame away people.