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A thread for commenting on the purported status report on the invisibility of postings
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popsrocks Posted: May 16 '08,  3:52 pm           
Reviews written: 2173
Member since: Aug 25 '02
moderator in Gourmet, Restaurants
Post: 185562
RE: Throwing In With The Rebels

Quote: trailhound
I can't find one review of mine in Sports/Outdoors with an outside hit this month either. I guess I shouldn't have previously complained about a 90% decrease in views, since there is now a 100% decrease. -Dave


Hey Dave,

If you check out the MPR/MPA ratings in Sports, Outdoors, Beauty and Wellness, they don't even show now.

I feel for you and others who have most eggs in one basket.

Hopefully all will be rectified soon.

pops



   
jps246 Posted: May 16 '08,  4:01 pm (Updated: May 16 '08,  4:01 pm)           
Reviews written: 848
Member since: Jan 25 '01
moderator in Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods
Post: 185563
RE: Throwing In With The Rebels

Quote: popsrocks
If you check out the MPR/MPA ratings in Sports, Outdoors, Beauty and Wellness, they don't even show now.


I personally don't really care about the MPR/MPA, what I care about is the fact that many of these reviews brought in good hits that produced good IS. Now they are doing nothing and I highly doubt that even if the hits that are not being counted are posted, the potential IS that was lost will never regained.

Jeff
   
trailhound Posted: May 16 '08,  4:45 pm           
Reviews written: 653
Member since: May 21 '04
Post: 185572
No IS on reviews that used to pay $

Quote: popsrocks
[quote]I feel for you and others who have most eggs in one basket.[/quote]

I actually don't have a lot of reviews in those categories but I did collect some $. Two of my best Outdoors reviews paid $15.60 in 2007. In 2008 they paid less than $3 then everything ground to a halt.

Quote: jps246
[quote]
the potential IS that was lost will never regained.[/quote]

You must be losing a lot of IS Jeff (compared to previous years). Imagine if your employer stopped paying you due to a computer glitch. I know it's not quite the same thing, but is the site benfitting from the reviews and just not paying us anymore? -Dave

   
meagandowney Posted: May 16 '08,  5:37 pm           
Reviews written: 358
Member since: Sep 11 '05
moderator in Books
Post: 185582
RE: I've had it myself ....

Quote: MiDoyle
In my mind, the message boards have failed to live up to their promise and are more of a detriment to the site than anything else. I would ditch them in place of a sustained posting on the member center on site fixes, priorities, and timeframes. Nothing else from management until the database-search engine issue is fixed.



What's the promise?

Quote: MiDoyle
The fact that some people are excited about a proposed newsletter is even more disturbing.


Why does community support for a newsletter disturb you?
   
Stephen_Murray Posted: May 16 '08,  5:49 pm           
Reviews written: 2347
Member since: Jun 21 '00
Post: 185587
The nonimproving search may be the tip of the iceberg

I have had considerable private communication that has made me think that the precipitous drop in outside hits earlier this year did not occur, but that counting hits (and reporting them) was severely compromised by the integration that was billed as substituting the Shopping.oom search engine for the Epinions one.

Adding is what computers are best at and have been at for the longest time, so the surmises I have received suggest that I have overestimated the quality of the analysis, implementation, and testing of software.

In that I write more to be read than for the IC, this makes me feel better (that people from outside are reading some of my reviews, even if their visits are not being reported to me). Given that pretty much everything "reported" from Brisbane (including the constantly improving search engine) is dubious, misleading, or outright false, trusting that the number of hits is reported accurately is a leap of faith that seems foolish to me.

I also learned (credit for this is due to Phil--popsrock) how to get around the "You don't have permission" to remove the link to my epinions "General comments about epinions" I made (in a complicated series of events that I don't want to recount)

I invite anyone who was seriously concerned about my horrifying violation of custom (rather than for those seeking to change the subject from the dubious report of improvement from now former-epinions employees) to delete their discussions in this thread (and paste them into the one specifically about including linking). I have deleted my own responses that seem to have failed to communicate the bizarre circumstances of the strangling of this thread before it was out of the delivery room (and its recessitation after I took what I was writing to the mothership...)

Thanks in advance to anyone who removes their postings about links on message boards. My brief and traumatic visit to the member board is still ending at midnight (PDT), which should make many message board mavens happy as does every successful stomping of a newbie who has violated customs (unwritten laws) by SOME advisors.

I certainly do not expect any admission from Brisbane that huge numbers of hits have not been reported (if the surmises of epinionators less naive than I am are correct).

   
popsrocks Posted: May 16 '08,  9:17 pm           
Reviews written: 2173
Member since: Aug 25 '02
moderator in Gourmet, Restaurants
Post: 185613
RE: The nonimproving search may be the tip of the iceberg

Quote: Stephen_Murray
...

...My brief and traumatic visit to the member board is still ending at midnight (PDT), which should make many message board mavens happy .


No one wins when negative attitudes permeates the truth, no matter who it comes from and whether being in the right or not.
Nobody wins when fair and honest open discussion is halted.

May I ask as a long time community member, "Please don't impose a self-imposed exile. The issues you bring up are quite valid and important for all of us to continue discussing."

pops


   
popsrocks Posted: May 16 '08,  9:50 pm           
Reviews written: 2173
Member since: Aug 25 '02
moderator in Gourmet, Restaurants
Post: 185616
RE: Throwing In With The Rebels

Quote: jps246
I personally don't really care about the MPR/MPA, what I care about is the fact that many of these reviews brought in good hits that produced good IS. Now they are doing nothing and I highly doubt that even if the hits that are not being counted are posted, the potential IS that was lost will never regained.

Jeff


I understand what you mean about IS "lost...never regained".

Though none of us can quote it as fact I believe the management understands exactly what is going on and regrets the problems. It's also my feeling, and this is personal thought only, that this situation is much more difficult than first thought and Will take time to sort out. I believe the 10-4-10 promotion is a sort of lure with two hooks. The first is indeed to bring in new writers and help fill the catalog.

I strongly feel the second hook is for all of us who have been around for a while. Yes, people like you and all of us who, to some extent, are losing IS especially on reviews that are "dead in the water". We would be writing a certain amount of reviews anyways. These are the reviews that I see as getting a quick $2.00 boost right away. I take that $2.00 as a sort of , Sorry for your troubles but we are trying to get this ship in good flying order." I am hoping that someday in the future these reviews will come alive and garner hits...and IS.

Yes, I am frustrated some days, yes, I am angry on other days and yes, I feel despair at hearing the legit negative issues that are posted day after day. Issues like lost posts, poor or no search, and views not registering and so much more.

At the same time I look at all the positive things that have happened on this site in the last years. I thought the promotions for charity were excellent! I enjoyed racking in the extra Holiday Bonus this year. I do expect to see the same in just seven months. My total yearly IS just continues to build year after year.

In reference to the catalog that is known for its errors in trying to search for particular items, I'm also excited to see so many products that are easy for me to find and write about. There was a time when I would have to really try and search my mind as to what to write about. Now its so easy.

In Restaurants we would have to wait weeks and months for some places to be added to the database. No more! I can have an SAP taken care of within days.

I also continue to value the people on the site. That to me is the greatest asset we have. I savor the diversity of the people and the broad and different thoughts, leanings, feelings, ideas and opinions they offer.

Yes, Epinions.com may sound like it's moving along with a lot of loose nuts and bolts under its hull but I still see it as a flying ship leading other such sites into the future. Are those rose coloured glasses I'm wearing? Nah, it's just the feeling I have when I am around a crowd of so many gifted and opinionated people who care about this site and its future.

pops
   
njchicaa Posted: May 16 '08,  10:21 pm           
Reviews written: 739
Member since: Jun 27 '05
Post: 185621
RE: The nonimproving search may be the tip of the iceberg

Quote: Stephen_Murray
My brief and traumatic visit to the member board is still ending at midnight (PDT)


um, why? Why bail on the boards?
   
abhaille Posted: May 16 '08,  11:21 pm           
Reviews written: 223
Member since: Dec 12 '99
Post: 185628
RE:

The ADD kicks in. . . Stephen, you are a brilliant writer. I'm getting a little bogged down (it's VERY late in the school year and I have three brain cells left and I've named them Larry, Moe and Curly)

Can you give it to me in one sentence? It can be a long sentence.

Susan

   
abhaille Posted: May 16 '08,  11:28 pm           
Reviews written: 223
Member since: Dec 12 '99
Post: 185629
RE:

Quote: ifif1938
I'm afraid each morning I will wake up and find the site has disappeared.


I'm right behind you.. .if you look over your left shoulder I'm the one negotiating with the Rastafarian guy for a lighter shaped like the Eiffel tower. . . .

I don't think the site will suddenly go away. As you've been around as long as I have and have been certainly more dedicated you know about the ups and downs and squirreliousness (I just made up a word) that comes and goes.

Being attached to eBay will keep epinions going. This doesn't hearten me. I've rejected eBay after being a seller there for many years.

What I wonder if is we should search for the most popular things on eBay and review those.

This may have been discussed before. In my time on the site, I've never gone on the forums until recently.

(Winks!)

Susan
   
Stephen_Murray Posted: May 16 '08,  11:37 pm           
Reviews written: 2347
Member since: Jun 21 '00
Post: 185630
instead of a parting shot

Quote: njchicaa
um, why? Why bail on the boards?


Surely enough of my experience in two days visiting this strange land with peculiar customs being enforced as if they were laws remains visible after my deleting eight of my postings on link-pimping remains visible to provide an answer.

Beyond that, I am dismayed by my own inability to keep myself from responsing from those eager to change the subject -- which in this instance is that the "status reports" given fixed first place are in my view seriously misleading -- and possibly covering up far worse incompetence than I imagined.

I don't like the way the topic was lost in a whole page of discourse -- including WAY too much of my own responding to try to explain the circumstances of my posting being strangled before reaching the crib.

I don't have the steely resolve necessary to ignore tangents, which some posters here are all too eager to bait.

My experience has not been all negative. I feel that both meagandowney and pyreditor expended considerable effort in trying to sort things out and maintained an impeccable level of civility. I also appreciate the efforts panguitch and popsrock (and someone else, I think) made to teach me to get around not being able to post edits of my own postings.

And I can't help appreciating the spirited defenses I received from several members, though in some instances these also seemed diversion from considering the true status of the "constantly improving" search-engine, and the even more troubling suggestions that instead of the search engine getting even worse, large numbers of hits were not reported for months.

I am not leaving epinions (at least not yet), but am going to manage to tear myself away from looking at the general message board, which is the only way I can enforce on myself my vow of silence on it.
   
ladyconsumer Posted: May 17 '08,  5:39 am           
Reviews written: 634
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 185648
RE: instead of a parting shot

You did, indeed, get a bad break when you first started here. Yours posts were deleted, locked, re-opened, and you broke a non-written rule that you didn't even know existed. Yup, that's a rough start, indeed.

Had you simply removed the link, you could have avoided what turned into a lot of pages of debate about the issue.

That aside, in the end, I do feel there was meaningful discussion. And, lots of people were helpful, not just the ones you mentioned. I, personally, got involved in your "vertical" thread just before it was about to slip into oblivion on page 2. Eventually, we got some real information about the issue from several people who had experience with the issue. And, eventually we got a REAL answer from Almar.

In other words, the boards worked. You asked a question. It might have taken a little while until some of us understood the question, but eventually, it was made clear, we got information, and an answer.

To my way of thinking you should view all of this as an overall positive experience. Rough start, for sure, but it ended well.

   
smorg Posted: May 17 '08,  12:29 pm           
Reviews written: 208
Member since: Jul 03 '06
Post: 185695
Update the 'Status' thread

Ditto-ing what Mona says.

Btw, could a mod or someone with access please add Almar's answer to that pinned and locked 'Status of things' thread? Thanks! :o)

   
pvreditor Posted: May 17 '08,  2:30 pm           
Reviews written: 405
Member since: May 31 '02
moderator in Cars, Home & Garden, Musical Equipment
Post: 185727
RE: Update the 'Status' thread

Quote: smorg
Btw, could a mod or someone with access please add Almar's answer to that pinned and locked 'Status of things' thread? Thanks! :o)

Ooooh, that's a good idea! I have minimal Internet access at the moment but will do it as soon as possible, if one of my co-mods doesn't beat me to it.

--Bob
   
smorg Posted: May 17 '08,  3:21 pm           
Reviews written: 208
Member since: Jul 03 '06
Post: 185737
RE: Update the 'Status' thread

Cool! Thanks in advance, Bob. :o)

For easy finding, click here to find Almar's answer.

Cheerio,
Smorg :o)

   
scmrak Posted: May 18 '08,  7:34 am (Updated: May 18 '08,  7:35 am)           
Reviews written: 1362
Member since: Sep 27 '00
Post: 185822
RE: Throwing In With The Rebels

Quote: popsrocks
...Though none of us can quote it as fact I believe the management understands exactly what is going on and regrets the problems...
By way of analogy:

Friday evening my the first leg of my trip home landed late because of heavy traffic into Atlanta Hartsfield, and I missed my connection. I had to find my own hotel and buy my own supper (and breakfast the next morning). Delta understood and regretted my problem. I do not, however, think they'll reimburse me any time soon.

Understanding and regretting are not the same as fixing. Unfortunatley, they're not even part of the process of fixing. Whether one's inclined to be a cheerleader or not, the site clearly has problems that it has thus far spent an unconsscinable amount of time failing to address.
   
jps246 Posted: May 18 '08,  2:18 pm           
Reviews written: 848
Member since: Jan 25 '01
moderator in Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods
Post: 185867
RE: Throwing In With The Rebels

Quote: scmrak
Whether one's inclined to be a cheerleader or not, the site clearly has problems that it has thus far spent an unconsscinable amount of time failing to address.


Exactly...

I don't expect Epinions to close up shop tomorrow or any other thing like that, but it's hard for me to understand how 8 months after the catalog integration things are no better and in fact worse with regards to some of the issues.

I can roll with the punches with the best of them and I'm never going to retire on my Epinions income, but seriously, any well established writer that has a decent library in the dead categories (or pretty much any review that now has /review in it) has some cause for concern because of the direct impact these issues are having on IS generation for reviews. If the hits aren't being counted, the IS isn't being distributed.

Saying that the 10 4 20 makes up for those issues doesn't really speak to the problem - it's just brushing it under the rug.

I've looked at the bright side for the last 8 months. I've even tried to stay positive in the last month since a good portion of my reviews are registering no hits. Even now, I figure that it'll eventually get fixed, but that doesn't change how I feel about the situation.

I think it's fair for anyone to wonder what's happening. They shouldn't feel guilty for feeling negative about the current state of affairs.

Am I going predicting the end of Epinions or leaving, no. I continue to write Outdoor Gear reviews even though they are in a dead category and don't get any hits and I continue to write elsewhere throughout the site. Yes, some of my reviews are getting great hits too and those kinds of things help tide me over, but to say that the 10 4 20 makes up for the problems doesn't cut it in my book. I don't have the time to write a large number of reviews anymore and anyway, if we are giving our work to Epinions so that they can use it to earn income then any problems related to reviews being visible to the public and having the hits counted correctly should be fixed and it's just hard to think that's happening when it doesn't seem like anything at all is happening.

Jeff
   
pvreditor Posted: May 19 '08,  12:49 pm (Updated: May 19 '08,  12:49 pm)           
Reviews written: 405
Member since: May 31 '02
moderator in Cars, Home & Garden, Musical Equipment
Post: 185978
RE: Update the 'Status' thread

Quote: smorg
Cool! Thanks in advance, Bob. :o)

For easy finding, click here to find Almar's answer.

FWIW, I just added Almar's post to the pinned thread with official information. I also posted a question from millinocket (Sue), who happened to ask the question again just before Almar's response. Sorry this took me so long but life intervened.

--Bob
   
anderclayton Posted: May 22 '08,  12:12 am           
Reviews written: 50
Member since: Dec 18 '99
Post: 186371
RE: What Is Going On?

Quote: pvreditor

It is a distraction, which is why Stephen was asked politely to remove it. If we make an exception for Stephen, there are at least a couple others around here who will point to it and say, "You did it for him, so why can't I do it?" The fact is that posting the URL gets you to his essay no faster than if you just go to his profile page and click on the link. So why leave it in his forum post and allow it to distract us?



You did it for the guide so why not do it for Stephen?

I've seen the mods overlook some links but not others on occasions. Generally these links are this sort of link.

Personally I really don't see that much of a problem with linking to Member Center/thoughts about Epinions articles. At least one reasoning for not linking was because reviews make money (in concept one IS indicator is hits) and therefore everyone will want to link to their review.

This isn't a review though (in spite of people calling it such with their requests for removal).

Yeah it kinda draws attention from the board. Yeah it focuses attention on one person's work. Does it really matter that much though in that respect though? Thoughts about Epinions is such a swamp anyhow...

The only objection I can really see (aside from a general sort of rule thing that claims this is a review) is that it might coax the trolls to come out of the bushes and post their trolly trolltroll posts.

Then there are the goofy posts encouraging him to play the sideways game of *hintnudge I've got an article hintnudge* crap that I've always found pretty so so and essentially performing the same function as linking (and fairly hypocritical in that respect). Kinda silly stuff.

Ander
   
anderclayton Posted: May 22 '08,  12:42 am           
Reviews written: 50
Member since: Dec 18 '99
Post: 186374
RE: A thread for commenting on the purported status report on the invisibility of postings

:) As for an actual reply to the comment.

ACK! Just stopped by to check things and blech! The site is trashed worse than it was when it was trashed last time (ummmmmm... They'd almost fixed it at one point but essentially that was perhaps a day or two so the site has kinda existed in a constant state of mediocrity as far as Movies goes for years). From what I can see it doesn't seem to be recognizing reviews on new stuff (at all?).

Top videos: National Geographic Video - Hunt for the Great White Shark

Ummm... Yeah. That is a best seller. From 1999. What the .... is up with that? No reviews.

Married People, Single Sex: The Return

I could see sex videos possibly being up there but this is from 2002.

Sex and the City - The Complete Series

Could be. Seems doubtful but...

Opposite of Sex

Well, it does include sex in the title. Old movie (1998), not on anybody's need to see list.

Love, Sex And Eating The Bones

Well... I've never heard of it, it is from 2004... Anyone need to see this one?

Planet Earth - The Complete Collection

Well, this one is recent anyhow (2007) but are documentaries that popular? Given that Moore's films are touted as top moneymakers it seems unlikely.

Princess Bride

Love the film. It did have a SE lately but... It is from 1987 I believe. The supposed release date is probably from the SE though because it says 2007.

Deep in the Game

Ummmmmmm... Huh? Never heard of it, it doesn't have sex in the title, no big actors... From 2003.

Last of the Dogmen

*shrug* It is rated reasonably. Haven't seen it. Seems like it might be decent. Again from 1999.

Shakira - Live & Off The Record

From 2004. Is everyone looking for this? No clue. Maybe I'm just out of the loop. *eye roll*

This is the *CRAP* that we were encouraged to look forward to after the search engine had some time to work its magic. Feel free to check back to the initial search engine thread and my objections to it in that thread and ummmmm... Well... I'm not going to say it.

Why the .... does Epinions think that these are top rated? They seem to have an oddball, obscurer-than-the-IS-formula way of determining what the top things are as has often been indicated by the crappy reviews desired posted periodically by the CLs every so often (generally all of those products are obscure).

In "New This Week" they've the usual suspects (The Descent has yet to be taken down) and some oddball new crap. GREAT way to highlight things for the ongoing summer season (last year's?).

"Coming Soon" is just as odd (The Descent is coming soon also).

"Box Office Leaders" might actually have been modified slightly three weeks ago (surprising). But films from the same time last year are still on the list (as well as The Descent. It does have Iron Man released last week or so though (May 16th) and that simply isn't true.

Soooooooo... The winner in the stupidest filing system The Descent.

And to think, I was actually thinking about writing a few reviews. This assinine catalog crap simply hasn't done anything good for the site from my perspective.

Ander

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