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| sageandsavory |
Posted: May 17 '08, 4:39 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: antastic
The best way to improve things around here is to follow your own self-interest. Nothing motivates a business more than losing business. If the business is not motivated, it simply goes under and a new and better business takes its place.
I think that everyone should look at their Epinions experience as a whole and not just at the rough spot we are all going through at this time. Members should put things in perspective and balance. I think that for most of us the overall benefits outweigh the temporary liabilities.
Epinions is more than just a business to me and I don't believe any of the problems on the site are due to a lack of motivation on Epinions part!
This is the second database integration we have gone through and there are bugs that have to be fixed. We should concentrate on making sure Epinions understands exactly what the bugs are and their consequences to reviews, hit counts etc. By providing Epinions with very specific examples we can be part of the solution by helping the engineers locate and exterminate these bugs.
We can be part of the solution or we can make more problems for Epinions that will take manpower and resources away from solving the problems.
I don't see the glass as half full or half empty I see the water level at the half way mark.
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| rkingfish |
Posted: May 17 '08, 4:49 pm |
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Reviews written: 311 Member since: Jun 16 '06
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Definition of Troll, courtesy of the non-politically-correct Funk & Wagnall's Standard Dictionary: "A mischievous dwarf". For the purpose of Epinions application, I would amend that to read "A mischievous intellectual dwarf".
My definition of Troll: Anyone whose employment of self-centered actions for the sole and deliberate purpose of ego gratification or outright disruption; be it veteran or newbie, detracts from my enjoyment of the Epinions experience.
Your definition may differ. This is simply my opinnion...
(To which I am entitled) |
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| antastic |
Posted: May 17 '08, 5:04 pm (Updated: May 17 '08, 5:09 pm) |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: rkingfish Definition of Troll, courtesy of the non-politically-correct Funk & Wagnall's Standard Dictionary: "A mischievous dwarf". For the purpose of Epinions application, I would amend that to read "A mischievous intellectual dwarf".
My definition of Troll: Anyone whose employment of self-centered actions for the sole and deliberate purpose of ego gratification or outright disruption; be it veteran or newbie, detracts from my enjoyment of the Epinions experience.
Your definition may differ. This is simply my opinnion...
(To which I am entitled)
I appreciate the clarification. Although, don't you find your definition to be subjective? Couldn't someone (heaven forbid) label you a troll because s/he does not like your opinion? You would most certainly detract from his enjoyment of epinions. Also, your definition requires you to be a mind reader. Can you read someone's mind and know that he wakes up in the morning plotting to disrupt your epinions experience? I wish I had that power. As it stands, I am forced to settle for your other astute advice: choosing not to ring my hands over it.
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| sageandsavory |
Posted: May 17 '08, 5:50 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: antastic I appreciate the clarification.
Quote: antastic As it stands, I am forced to settle for your other astute advice: choosing not to ring my hands over it.
I think that you made a wise choice.
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| antastic |
Posted: May 17 '08, 5:58 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: sageandsavory I think that you made a wise choice.
Thanks! I think it is important to live by what one preaches.
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: May 17 '08, 6:05 pm |
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Reviews written: 494 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: CyndiA A lot of good people have left and not because they added no value to this site.
I'm not comfortable celebrating suppression and the "packing off" of others.
The thorn in your side may be the bright spot in my day.
I too am troubled by the idea of labeling and "send packing-off" those who some minority, or even some majority, label 'trolls'.
The site gives us plenty of tools to foster those who contribute and hinder those who detract. I would think we are all 'big enough' to make those decisions ourself.
If someone wants to share privately his/her observations of a 'problematic' user with those who may be taken in by said user I see nothing wrong with that. Certainly other users might benefit from the observations of those closer to the matter.
No, sharing privately is not 'whispering' or campaigning. It is (hopefully) sharing facts and personal observations. On which each user can make their own judgment and call of said user's behavior and whether it contributes positively to the site or not.
IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc., etc..
...tom...
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| rkingfish |
Posted: May 17 '08, 7:34 pm |
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Reviews written: 311 Member since: Jun 16 '06
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: sleeper54
The site gives us plenty of tools to foster those who contribute and hinder those who detract. I would think we are all 'big enough' to make those decisions ourself.
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And in the past we have used (to good effect) those tools when necessary.
The magnanimous gesture of acquiescence toward those whose goal is the disruption of this site is interpreted by this member as debating the merits of trollism. No one (certainly not me) is running parallel to the idea that those who engage in the spirited discussion of differing opinion should be the recipients of isolation or banishment.
Let us all be intelligent adults here. People who come to this site for the specific and deliberate purpose of inciting chaos and maintaining an atmosphere of same are the individuals of whom I speak. There is absolutely no benefit to their membership. All of us who have been here long enough to witness the flame-wars with their wasted time and loss of production know exactly what I’m referring to.
The vast minority of members who know of my existence at this site also know that I rarely visit the Message Boards. I never speak for the purpose of hearing myself talk. When I do speak, my statements are deliberate and to the point. These statements will not be misinterpreted. These statements regarding the definition of trollism refer to a specific type of member with a specific purpose. Get it straight... these are not whimsical, high-spirited members who flavor the atmosphere with their colorful banter. These are not misunderstood members whose simple social skills are in question. The specific, exclusive and finite group to which I refer consists of sociopathic serial site abusers who continue to appear and reappear in a variety of incarnations.
I fear what began as a fine thread on the merits of Epinions has gone hopelessly off-topic. In all due respect to the original intentions of fellow member ssjakira1, my sincerest of apologies... |
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| mmcphee |
Posted: May 17 '08, 7:36 pm |
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Reviews written: 1128 Member since: Oct 14 '03
in Education |
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: antastic I love your rose-colored glasses! Yes the glass is half full! I always wondered why people exit a burning building. Just because it's nicer outside? Rubbish! They should realize that the building still has its good points. I am joking, of course, but there is a point. If you are happy who can argue with that? However, some have moved on not because they find no goodness here, but because the glass is more than half full somewhere else. It is just simply the free market at work.
Or perhaps some have moved on because they get tired of hearing how bad it is here from others. It seems to me that often (in many situations) the half-empty crowd is the most vocal. You don't have to look far to find bad news everywhere. Why would people want to come to a website to (hopefully) have some fun if it is all about the doom and gloom?
Just my cranky unicorn two cents...
ME |
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: May 17 '08, 8:22 pm (Updated: May 17 '08, 8:22 pm) |
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Reviews written: 494 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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I have seen...
...
To restate my basic position: I have seen the label 'troll' unfairly applied to (or implied about) users on this site.
The pornographic, idiotic, vulgar, flood-the-boards troll can and should be quickly removed from the site.
The charges of 'troll' and plagiarism are serious charges and 'sticky' labels. The best way to avoid misapplying them is for everyone to make their own decisions based on what they see with their own eyes. Rather than responding to a clarion call for swift and brutal action.
But perhaps that is just me.
...tom...
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
—Barry Goldwater
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| alexdg1 |
Posted: May 17 '08, 8:48 pm |
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Reviews written: 1273 Member since: Dec 12 '03
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: rkingfish Definition of Troll, courtesy of the non-politically-correct Funk & Wagnall's Standard Dictionary: "A mischievous dwarf". For the purpose of Epinions application, I would amend that to read "A mischievous intellectual dwarf".
My definition of Troll: Anyone whose employment of self-centered actions for the sole and deliberate purpose of ego gratification or outright disruption; be it veteran or newbie, detracts from my enjoyment of the Epinions experience.
Your definition may differ. This is simply my opinnion...
(To which I am entitled)
I've always thought the online-specific, or Epinions-specific, definition of troll was someone who deliberately came to the Message Boards and left inappropriate threads, posts, or replies to posts deliberately to instigate situations of acrimony and strife. |
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| antastic |
Posted: May 17 '08, 8:51 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: mmcphee Or perhaps some have moved on because they get tired of hearing how bad it is here from others. It seems to me that often (in many situations) the half-empty crowd is the most vocal. You don't have to look far to find bad news everywhere. Why would people want to come to a website to (hopefully) have some fun if it is all about the doom and gloom?
Just my cranky unicorn two cents...
ME
You made some good points. Negativity does get old fast. I have to wonder why these negative folks stick around. They do seem like a small minority with a big loud speaker. But you know how the old saying goes: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." It is probably not right that such a small group should decide policy for everyone else. The silent majority, though, need to speak up.
In answer to the original question posed at the beginning of this thread, everyone isn't really freaking out. I am not even sure it is fair to label anyone as "freaking out." It is natural for people to discuss problems openly and honestly. How else would those problems be solved? I can appreciate the pep talks given by some, but the most positive thing to do is face the truth, no matter how painful, and deal with it honestly. Solutions only come when that happens.
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| alexdg1 |
Posted: May 17 '08, 8:59 pm |
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Reviews written: 1273 Member since: Dec 12 '03
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: sleeper54 Well, you could dessert us all around and I am sure most of us would be real pleased for a day or two...
I am thinking maybe various fruit and creme pies all around . . ..
...tom...
' who admits if it was NT I was replying to I would be jonesing for cookies..!! '
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How about if I buy cookies for the community? I would, but I think that then I'd have to write a New York Times best-selling novel that sells over a million copies just to recoup the expenses!
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| antastic |
Posted: May 17 '08, 9:06 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: rkingfish And in the past we have used (to good effect) those tools when necessary.
The magnanimous gesture of acquiescence toward those whose goal is the disruption of this site is interpreted by this member as debating the merits of trollism. No one (certainly not me) is running parallel to the idea that those who engage in the spirited discussion of differing opinion should be the recipients of isolation or banishment.
Let us all be intelligent adults here. People who come to this site for the specific and deliberate purpose of inciting chaos and maintaining an atmosphere of same are the individuals of whom I speak. There is absolutely no benefit to their membership. All of us who have been here long enough to witness the flame-wars with their wasted time and loss of production know exactly what I’m referring to.
The vast minority of members who know of my existence at this site also know that I rarely visit the Message Boards. I never speak for the purpose of hearing myself talk. When I do speak, my statements are deliberate and to the point. These statements will not be misinterpreted. These statements regarding the definition of trollism refer to a specific type of member with a specific purpose. Get it straight... these are not whimsical, high-spirited members who flavor the atmosphere with their colorful banter. These are not misunderstood members whose simple social skills are in question. The specific, exclusive and finite group to which I refer consists of sociopathic serial site abusers who continue to appear and reappear in a variety of incarnations.
I fear what began as a fine thread on the merits of Epinions has gone hopelessly off-topic. In all due respect to the original intentions of fellow member ssjakira1, my sincerest of apologies...
This is off-topic. Perhaps you should start a new thread on this topic. I don't know why you brought it up here. I'm sure you had good intentions though. :0)
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: May 17 '08, 9:13 pm |
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Reviews written: 494 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: alexdg1 How about if I buy cookies for the community? I would, but I think that then I'd have to write a New York Times best-selling novel that sells over a million copies just to recoup the expenses!
I am sorry, Alex. We are deliciously off-topic. Hopefully in a chocolate chip kinda way.
Perhaps we should take this up in the VR** room..??
. . . ...:carbsarenotreallymyfriends..dangitsmiliemoment:...
...tom...
**VR: the Virtual Reality room, Epinions newest user-friendly perq . . ..
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| phungus |
Posted: May 17 '08, 9:15 pm |
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Reviews written: 2303 Member since: Aug 31 '99
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: antastic Here's a thought: Maybe the strategy of epinions is to cut the pay and the hits on the old reviews and increase the pay on the new reviews. Such a policy would encourage content production.
The success of any site on the internet depends on fresh and voluminous content.
Then why don't you be helpful and post some reviews!
You obviously write well enough to put a couple of coherent sentences together. That puts you a step ahead of some people already. |
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| antastic |
Posted: May 17 '08, 9:44 pm (Updated: May 17 '08, 9:45 pm) |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: phungus Then why don't you be helpful and post some reviews!
You obviously write well enough to put a couple of coherent sentences together. That puts you a step ahead of some people already.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am no writer though. I am sure there is a lot more to what you do than stringing together sentences.
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| rkingfish |
Posted: May 17 '08, 9:53 pm |
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Reviews written: 311 Member since: Jun 16 '06
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: alexdg1 I've always thought the online-specific, or Epinions-specific, definition of troll was someone who deliberately came to the Message Boards and left inappropriate threads, posts, or replies to posts deliberately to instigate situations of acrimony and strife.
Hi Alex,
Since the first definition is taken from Funk & Wagnall’s, it does not appear in the Epinions Book of Shadows.
Neither does the second definition, as this was written with tongue-in-cheek and is specific to my experience at the site. However, when I become CEO of eBay, I plan to enact this version of the definition by decree.
My subsequent and thorough review of the site rules will hopefully reveal the existence of a twelve-step program to deal with the heartbreak of CMBS*.
I hope this explanation shines additional light on the previous definition(s).
Kingfish
“Who am I? What am I doing here?”
Admiral James Stockdale, 1992 Reform Party candidate for Vice President
*Chronic Message Board Syndrome |
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| popsrocks |
Posted: May 17 '08, 10:03 pm (Updated: May 17 '08, 10:30 pm) |
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Reviews written: 2148 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: sageandsavory I think that everyone should look at their Epinions experience as a whole and not just at the rough spot we are all going through at this time. Members should put things in perspective and balance. I think that for most of us the overall benefits outweigh the temporary liabilities.
Epinions is more than just a business to me and I don't believe any of the problems on the site are due to a lack of motivation on Epinions part!
This is the second database integration we have gone through and there are bugs that have to be fixed. We should concentrate on making sure Epinions understands exactly what the bugs are and their consequences to reviews, hit counts etc. By providing Epinions with very specific examples we can be part of the solution by helping the engineers locate and exterminate these bugs.
We can be part of the solution or we can make more problems for Epinions that will take manpower and resources away from solving the problems.
I don't see the glass as half full or half empty I see the water level at the half way mark.
What a wonderful breath of fresh air!!
Well said and to the point.
Thanks,
pops
Please let me thank Nicole for her opening words too. I agree with your assessment.
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| lyoness913 |
Posted: May 17 '08, 11:52 pm |
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Reviews written: 523 Member since: May 17 '02
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: rkingfish Definition of Troll, courtesy of the non-politically-correct Funk & Wagnall's Standard Dictionary: "A mischievous dwarf". For the purpose of Epinions application, I would amend that to read "A mischievous intellectual dwarf".
My definition of Troll: Anyone whose employment of self-centered actions for the sole and deliberate purpose of ego gratification or outright disruption; be it veteran or newbie, detracts from my enjoyment of the Epinions experience.
Your definition may differ. This is simply my opinnion...
(To which I am entitled)
You know fish..you are so right. I absolutely agree with your definition.
Funny thing trolls are.. they come out like worms in the rain.. but they always dry up eventually.
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| ssjakira1 |
Posted: May 18 '08, 7:44 am |
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Reviews written: 733 Member since: May 13 '03
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RE: Why is everyone freaking out?
Quote: rkingfish I fear what began as a fine thread on the merits of Epinions has gone hopelessly off-topic. In all due respect to the original intentions of fellow member ssjakira1, my sincerest of apologies...
No apology needed. I think I must be one of the few who knew exactly what you were talking about from the start. :D
NT |