| | | |
| kristinafh |
Posted: May 27 '08, 2:54 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 1344 Member since: Dec 17 '99
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
It shouldn't take 8 months to find the root cause(s) of anything related on this site.
Fire your engineers.
Or get a different Service Level Agreement. |
| | | |
| gamblin_man |
Posted: May 27 '08, 6:57 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 389 Member since: Apr 08 '01
 in Home & Garden |
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: kristinafh It shouldn't take 8 months to find the root cause(s) of anything related on this site.
Fire your engineers.
Or get a different Service Level Agreement.
Like everything in the real world, Epinions, SdC, and even eBay don't have infinite resources to use whenever or wherever they choose to. If it took an engineer that could dedicate himself to a single project eight months to find a problem I would agree, but there are a limited number of engineers, good ones as far as I can tell, at Epinions. They have to keep the site up and running as their first priority. They have routine tasks like getting out the IS they have to do. They don't have the luxury of doing just one thing.
Some of the problems are in systems at SdC and those limited engineering resources have to time share as well. Since some of the issues cross boundaries of three different teams, just the coordination of the discovery and resolution is more complicated.
The first duty of those limited resources has to be to keep the site up and running and generating revenue so that paychecks can be generated. I am just as impatient as anyone, but "firing the engineers" will only further delay the fixes. I believe they are coming and I also believe that the site problems are not so apparent to the casual non-member user as to cause major loss of revenue. They seem much worse to us than to outsiders and so our concerns have a little lower priority than keeping the site operative.
If we don't see some improvement by the end of next month I'll join the chorus, but let's look at the engineer's job a little more realistically.
Larry |
| | | |
| gamblin_man |
Posted: May 27 '08, 10:39 am (Updated: May 27 '08, 10:41 am) |
|
|
Reviews written: 389 Member since: Apr 08 '01
in Home & Garden |
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: antastic Thanks for that update. I think you are right. People do get impatient at times. From where I sit, epinions, even if it fixes all its current problems, would still be a decade behind the competition. Most sites I have joined make it easy to upload a photo, for example. I have yet to find any photo upload feature here. Also, some sites enable users to publish videos, sound files and pictures with their content. They have bookmarking features and better SEO. It is not unusual for one published work to receive as many as 20,000 hits in a single day. If it takes epinions months to solve some very basic problems that most sites can solve in a day, then naturally it's going to lag behind. The bottom line is epinions' greatest challenge is not the internal stuff, but what the competition is doing. The competition is fast, efficient, open to communication, and very very tough.
Let me start my answer by questioning what sites are effectively competing with Epinions? There are imitators out there, some with more modern interfaces, but they do not effectively compete, at least yet. Based on page views and revenue generation, the sites I am familiar with are far down the list, certainly not sites Epinions would or should consider threatening to them.
Some of the features you tout are not features Epinions has chosen to use. Their business plan worked through the dot com bust and is still working, based on reasonable measures. For those where the cute bells and whistles are important they can have their fun - as long as others reading their work is not important to them. I have a few reviews on another site and can categorically state that outside reads are well below those of even my broken reviews on Epinions. This is also true of the few reviews I have on the UK sites.
Once Epinions gets on top of their software problems the site will still be head and shoulders above those johnny-come-lately sites. They have a long way to go to become competitors.
Larry
|
| | | |
| antastic |
Posted: May 27 '08, 10:41 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: gamblin_man Like everything in the real world, Epinions, SdC, and even eBay don't have infinite resources to use whenever or wherever they choose to. If it took an engineer that could dedicate himself to a single project eight months to find a problem I would agree, but there are a limited number of engineers, good ones as far as I can tell, at Epinions. They have to keep the site up and running as their first priority. They have routine tasks like getting out the IS they have to do. They don't have the luxury of doing just one thing.
Some of the problems are in systems at SdC and those limited engineering resources have to time share as well. Since some of the issues cross boundaries of three different teams, just the coordination of the discovery and resolution is more complicated.
The first duty of those limited resources has to be to keep the site up and running and generating revenue so that paychecks can be generated. I am just as impatient as anyone, but "firing the engineers" will only further delay the fixes. I believe they are coming and I also believe that the site problems are not so apparent to the casual non-member user as to cause major loss of revenue. They seem much worse to us than to outsiders and so our concerns have a little lower priority than keeping the site operative.
If we don't see some improvement by the end of next month I'll join the chorus, but let's look at the engineer's job a little more realistically.
Larry
I think she is suggesting that the engineers be fired and replaced with more competent engineers. I don't know what kind of technology they use here, but if they used .inc files for their code, they could fix a site-wide problem in a matter of minutes. Inc files contain all code, classes, and subroutines that are common to each page on the site. If, on the other hand, the pages are individually coded, it could take years to solve a bug.
|
| | | |
| gamblin_man |
Posted: May 27 '08, 11:11 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 389 Member since: Apr 08 '01
in Home & Garden |
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: antastic I think she is suggesting that the engineers be fired and replaced with more competent engineers. I don't know what kind of technology they use here, but if they used .inc files for their code, they could fix a site-wide problem in a matter of minutes. Inc files contain all code, classes, and subroutines that are common to each page on the site. If, on the other hand, the pages are individually coded, it could take years to solve a bug.
I have always found Kristina to be quite capable of responding for herself. Nevertheless, I do not believe she actually believes the Epinions engineers to be incompetent. Like all of us, they put their effort where the boss tells them to.
As far as the problems currently on Epinions, none of them are in the front end, the public part of Epinions. The public portion is the first area that is maintained, as it should be. There was even a recent roll out of a more modern product interface.
The problems are in the back end and utilities that relate to the databases(s). These have less overall impact on the site, but do have more impact on the active members sense of well being. They are being worked on, but the first priority is the public area of the site.
I certainly don't have a full view of the complexity of the software, but in my other life have "walked a moon in the moccasins" of the programmers, the analysts, the project managers, and the department heads. Without this actual experience it may be harder to understand the trade-offs that have to occur every day.
Larry
|
| | | |
| antastic |
Posted: May 27 '08, 11:19 am (Updated: May 27 '08, 11:21 am) |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: gamblin_man
As far as the problems currently on Epinions, none of them are in the front end, the public part of Epinions.
I think there are many who disagree with you. I, for one, have had trouble finding reviews I wanted to research.
Quote: gamblin_man The problems are in the back end and utilities that relate to the databases(s). These have less overall impact on the site, but do have more impact on the active members sense of well being.
The database affects the front end as well. What consumers see depends on how well the database is put together. The database is not just for the convience of posters.
|
| | | |
| dandj |
Posted: May 27 '08, 12:32 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 433 Member since: Dec 29 '99
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: gamblin_man Some of the problems are in systems at SdC Larry
I realize I don't have a real clue as to what's going on behind the scenes, but it does seem like that statement is the source of much of what is going on lately. It's a shame that our systems weren't allowed to continue to exist on the same plane they did before epinions was acquired by SdC and ebay. We had our problems before, but they have increased since.
I'm sure the powers-that-be had a vision when deciding to integrate the systems, and it's going to take some time to accomplish that. Larry, I thank you for being as forthcoming as you can with what you know. Patience is going to continue to be one of the major keys to getting through this long process of change.
~*~Danielle~*~
|
| | | |
| antastic |
Posted: May 27 '08, 1:45 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: gamblin_man Let me start my answer by questioning what sites are effectively competing with Epinions? There are imitators out there, some with more modern interfaces, but they do not effectively compete, at least yet. Based on page views and revenue generation, the sites I am familiar with are far down the list, certainly not sites Epinions would or should consider threatening to them.
Some of the features you tout are not features Epinions has chosen to use. Their business plan worked through the dot com bust and is still working, based on reasonable measures. For those where the cute bells and whistles are important they can have their fun - as long as others reading their work is not important to them. I have a few reviews on another site and can categorically state that outside reads are well below those of even my broken reviews on Epinions. This is also true of the few reviews I have on the UK sites.
Once Epinions gets on top of their software problems the site will still be head and shoulders above those johnny-come-lately sites. They have a long way to go to become competitors.
Larry
I think a lot of people disagree with you. Checking Alexa.com I have noticed competive sites rising in the ranks while epinions has fallen. I don't know if I am allowed to name names, but one competitor has 20 times the reach of epinions. It sells a lot of books and merchandise and has tons of reviews. Another competitor now owns epinions. It has tons of reviews also. Then there are plenty of writer and blog sites where you can post your opinions. One site in particular is ranked number 2 on the web last time I checked. It has rocketed past epinions. Another site (ranked in the top 5) also has rocketed past epinions. At that site you can let your imagination run wild as far as what you can post: videos, pictures, blogs, reviews--whatever! I have seen people become celebrities over night because the exposure is so excellent! If you think epinions exists in a vacuum with a couple of other review sites, you are dead mistaken.
|
| | | |
| dimeuhday |
Posted: May 27 '08, 1:57 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 160 Member since: May 24 '01
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
I can name a site that epinions has lost handfuls of members to. Some of you already know this site I am refering to, however if I make references, I may very well be labeled a troll, which is sad. I keep my horizion open, and am always seeking out new opportunity.
Anyhow, on this site (whos name I shall not name) I easily rake in 20-30 thousand hits in a month on a review on soap. 2 reviews on this un-nammed site ='s the same amt of hits Id make on epi in a lifetime. I think there is a misconception that this site IS NOT competition for epi. It is. Like it or not, it is... |
| | | |
| Penguinlady |
Posted: May 28 '08, 10:14 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 625 Member since: Dec 14 '99
|
|
Other sites
All of which begs the question: Why are people who don't post many, if any, reviews on Epinions hanging out on these boards, when there's so much more exposure to be gained and money to be made on other sites?
Margaret |
| | | |
| phungus |
Posted: May 28 '08, 10:39 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 2297 Member since: Aug 31 '99
|
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: Penguinlady All of which begs the question: Why are people who don't post many, if any, reviews on Epinions hanging out on these boards, when there's so much more exposure to be gained and money to be made on other sites?
Margaret
Holy shee-ot that's a dang good question!
I am also a member of one of these 'other sites', but they also own your reviews, which isn't so cool with me. They also have a tendency to reject some reviews, which kind of sucks. Certain content works for them better than it works here, and vice versa. I still think they are two different animals. |
| | | |
| antastic |
Posted: May 28 '08, 11:14 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
|
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: Penguinlady All of which begs the question: Why are people who don't post many, if any, reviews on Epinions hanging out on these boards, when there's so much more exposure to be gained and money to be made on other sites?
Margaret
I think these boards are a riot. Very entertaining! If one does not take them too seriously, that is. Now, a question for you: why do you take such a strong interest in what other people do or choose not to do? Don't you have your own business to tend to?
|
| | | |
| njchicaa |
Posted: May 28 '08, 11:55 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 727 Member since: Jun 27 '05
|
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: Penguinlady All of which begs the question: Why are people who don't post many, if any, reviews on Epinions hanging out on these boards, when there's so much more exposure to be gained and money to be made on other sites?
I suppose it could be a hobby for those with nothing else exciting going on in their lives. Some people get a thrill out of getting people all riled up. Unfortunately that strategy only works if people actually care what the thrill-seeker says.
|
| | | |
| kristinafh |
Posted: May 28 '08, 12:00 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1344 Member since: Dec 17 '99
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: gamblin_man Like everything in the real world, Epinions, SdC, and even eBay don't have infinite resources to use whenever or wherever they choose to. If it took an engineer that could dedicate himself to a single project eight months to find a problem I would agree, but there are a limited number of engineers, good ones as far as I can tell, at Epinions. They have to keep the site up and running as their first priority. They have routine tasks like getting out the IS they have to do. They don't have the luxury of doing just one thing.
Some of the problems are in systems at SdC and those limited engineering resources have to time share as well. Since some of the issues cross boundaries of three different teams, just the coordination of the discovery and resolution is more complicated.
The first duty of those limited resources has to be to keep the site up and running and generating revenue so that paychecks can be generated. I am just as impatient as anyone, but "firing the engineers" will only further delay the fixes. I believe they are coming and I also believe that the site problems are not so apparent to the casual non-member user as to cause major loss of revenue. They seem much worse to us than to outsiders and so our concerns have a little lower priority than keeping the site operative.
If we don't see some improvement by the end of next month I'll join the chorus, but let's look at the engineer's job a little more realistically.
Larry
Larry,
I've been in IT for 20 years. And in the real world. And in both large corporations and small corporations and start-ups and wind-downs.
When I tell you that it shouldn't take 8 months to figure out a root cause - I really do know what I am talking about. I've worked in infrastructure, middleware, web, application development, COTS, support, operations, product development, service level agreements, outsourcing, etc...
I've personally performed roles as an analyst (system and business), developer (mainframe, distributed apps, COTS), designer, admin/configuration, tester, qa, operations - and I've managed people and millions of dollars in this area.
SO - again - I think I'm pretty qualified when I say - it shouldn't take 8 months to diagnose the root cause of an issue.
It may take a long time to resolve it - but not diagnose it.
And if it does - you have the wrong team on it (making the assumption that anyone is looking at it to begin with).
Kristina |
| | | |
| antastic |
Posted: May 28 '08, 12:10 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
|
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: njchicaa I suppose it could be a hobby for those with nothing else exciting going on in their lives. Some people get a thrill out of getting people all riled up. Unfortunately that strategy only works if people actually care what the thrill-seeker says.
I know you are one of the smart ones and will just ignore those thrill seekers, and tend to your own affairs. Peace be with you. :) |
| | | |
| antastic |
Posted: May 28 '08, 12:13 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Nov 10 '07
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: kristinafh Larry,
I've been in IT for 20 years. And in the real world. And in both large corporations and small corporations and start-ups and wind-downs.
When I tell you that it shouldn't take 8 months to figure out a root cause - I really do know what I am talking about. I've worked in infrastructure, middleware, web, application development, COTS, support, operations, product development, service level agreements, outsourcing, etc...
I've personally performed roles as an analyst (system and business), developer (mainframe, distributed apps, COTS), designer, admin/configuration, tester, qa, operations - and I've managed people and millions of dollars in this area.
SO - again - I think I'm pretty qualified when I say - it shouldn't take 8 months to diagnose the root cause of an issue.
It may take a long time to resolve it - but not diagnose it.
And if it does - you have the wrong team on it (making the assumption that anyone is looking at it to begin with).
Kristina
Major DITTO!
|
| | | |
| kristinafh |
Posted: May 28 '08, 12:14 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1344 Member since: Dec 17 '99
|
|
RE: what's wrong with being concerned?
Quote: antastic I think she is suggesting that the engineers be fired and replaced with more competent engineers. I don't know what kind of technology they use here, but if they used .inc files for their code, they could fix a site-wide problem in a matter of minutes. Inc files contain all code, classes, and subroutines that are common to each page on the site. If, on the other hand, the pages are individually coded, it could take years to solve a bug.
Let me be clear.
Every single epinions employee that I have ever interacted with (and this include engineers) - they are decent, intelligent individuals. I'd have them on my team any day of the week.
I'm sure that when dealtime took over this place - almost everything was "offshored" with absolutely very little QA involved (because this is TYPICAL - companies outsource their brains because they don't GET that offshoring is about moving MATURE code and processes to a MATURE, cookie-cutter organization in order to reap the benefits of cost reduction and savings).
Whhooops - here's that soap box back.
I personally don't believe that anyone is working on the issues related to search, taxonomy, metadata, and product database issues because if they were, the items would have been diagnosed (maybe not FIXED), but surely - diagnosed.
Andy is gone. Crystal is gone. Tomiko is gone. Garrett is gone. The rock-n-roll engineer is gone.
There - I said it. And I don't regret it.
Today is May 28, 2008. If they don't have a diagnoses and a planned "fix" for some of these issues, they should be concerned about the consequences they could face at the end of third quarter/beginning of fourth quarter.
And no - I don't think that the sky is falling. Never have. Epinions won't disappear. It'll continue. People will still get paid and there will still be IS and advisors and top reviewers.
Mediocrity can be extremely cost-effective for companies.
I think that is where epinions is at - and while that's sad (from an emotional level), logically - if this is how they maximize their revenues for this particular child (of eBay) - power to the shareholders! |
| | | |
| sageandsavory |
Posted: May 28 '08, 12:16 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
|
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: phungus Holy shee-ot that's a dang good question!
I am also a member of one of these 'other sites', but they also own your reviews, which isn't so cool with me. They also have a tendency to reject some reviews, which kind of sucks. Certain content works for them better than it works here, and vice versa. I still think they are two different animals.
Do the other sites have message boards for the members? |
| | | |
| captaind |
Posted: May 28 '08, 12:51 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 1053 Member since: Jan 19 '03
in Movies |
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: sageandsavory Do the other sites have message boards for the members?
Now that is an interesting question...
Haven't been active on any of these for a while, but I don't remember Ciao, Dooyoo or Shvoong having message boards (though there were plenty of unofficial ones).
CaptainD |
| | | |
| Penguinlady |
Posted: May 28 '08, 1:34 pm (Updated: May 28 '08, 1:35 pm) |
|
|
Reviews written: 625 Member since: Dec 14 '99
|
|
RE: Other sites
Quote: antastic ...Now, a question for you: why do you take such a strong interest in what other people do or choose not to do? Don't you have your own business to tend to?
Wow - you sound just like my grandmother scolding my sister!
Yes, I do have my own business to attend to, and I do tend to it very well. Thank you for your concern.
And I have to assume that you want other people to "take a strong interest" in what you do, or you wouldn't be posting about it here. However, you are laboring under a misconception if you think I care what you do away from this site. I don't. Not even a little bit. My only interest in you, if you could call it that, is what you do here.
Have a nice day, think positive, peace be with you, and all the other platitudes you append to your posts.
Margaret |
|
© 1999-2009 Shopping.com, Inc.