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| pvreditor |
Posted: Sep 23 '08, 7:10 pm |
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Reviews written: 404 Member since: May 31 '02
 in Cars, Home & Garden, Musical Equipment |
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: ladyconsumer You've got mail.
And I've posted your suggestions. Thanks!
--Bob |
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| jps246 |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 5:58 am (Updated: Sep 24 '08, 6:03 am) |
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Reviews written: 846 Member since: Jan 25 '01
in Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods |
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: divad23 Are you saying that doing it in IE will generate the correct HTML code for situation such as mine? If so, I still think the ideal is to get it working the same way in all currently supported browsers (Firefox, IE, Netscape, and Safari at the very least), but I'm fine with using IE for the time being.
That's what's been said earlier in the thread and what I've experienced.
Here's a link to the posting where this was brought up.
edited to add link
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| jlc2005 |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 9:43 am |
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Reviews written: 87 Member since: Oct 23 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: jump_chump As I noted before, the wysiwig is open source. The bugs you are dealing with are in the open source application itself. If you'd like to fix the bugs, feel free to drop by the TinyMCE site and get coding!
Seriously, though, the wysiwig code is fairly complicated. It has to manage peculiarities from multiple browsers, operating systems, and input methods.
Hopefully, the next release of the editor code will make things easier for folks.
damon
Epinions Engineer
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I can appreciate all of the difficulties but the old editor was far superior in terms of user friendliness. The ratio of writing time to formatting time on my old reviews was about 95%/5%. That has been completely flipped around now. I spent over two hours trying to debug my most recent review and in the end had to re-type everything and the editor still fought me. It became a challenge to fight the editor, not what I was saying about the product and the quality of my review suffered accordingly.
After reading numerous threads about this horrific editor, I have decided to sit on the sidelines until this editor is fixed or the old one or a different one is brought in. I like contributing here but I don't have unlimited time to fight the interface.
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| jump_chump |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 9:58 am |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 04 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: jlc2005 It became a challenge to fight the editor, not what I was saying about the product and the quality of my review suffered accordingly.
Ok, I understand now. Let's see if the next version of the editor makes things easier. If not, we'll need to reconsider its implementation.
damon
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Epinions Engineer |
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| divad23 |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 12:45 pm |
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Reviews written: 567 Member since: Aug 21 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: jump_chump As I noted before, the wysiwig is open source. The bugs you are dealing with are in the open source application itself. If you'd like to fix the bugs, feel free to drop by the TinyMCE site and get coding!
And as I noted, I'm not so good with the JavaScript syntax. I only did what I did in a language I was familiar with as a proof of concept. It needs to be handled by someone who works well with the language it's programmed in. If Epinions is dependent on a third-party product whose development is being farmed out to weekend warriors who are doing it for free, no wonder it doesn't work!
It's also worth noting that the change I suggested might not be a helpful change for the product overall. From the standpoint of most folks, it just adds unnecessary start and end tags to already valid HTML. It's only useful within the context of Epinions, where line breaks within bold or italic tags upset the validator. The far superior approach would actually be to fix the validator so that it understands what is actually syntactically valid HTML.
Quote: jump_chump Seriously, though, the wysiwig code is fairly complicated. It has to manage peculiarities from multiple browsers, operating systems, and input methods.
wysiwig? What You See Is What I Get? No wonder this damn thing doesn't work!
Seriously, though, I do understand that getting JavaScript to play well with all browsers - and to deal with the weirdness of the HTML code generated by Microsoft Word and whatnot - is a major pain. I understand that this is a difficult task to surmount. But I'm talking about the HTML that it generates when I type stuff straight into the editor - which, as far as I can see, is consistent and accurate based on what I typed, regardless of whether I used IE or Firefox. That step's working well. The problem is that in any browser, it's generating HTML that the validator doesn't agree with. Again, the real show-stopper is the validator, which as far as I can tell is native to Epinions.
From the post I was referred to a few pages back:
Quote: yoelc Hi folks,
Here's the update from Brisbane. We're continuing to work on the issues that we're able to reproduce. There is a known issue with pasting from MS Word using Firefox 3. This combination adds in extra HTML that is not accepted.
This isn't the issue that I'm having. I'm not pasting anything in from Microsoft Word. I'm pasting plain text, or just typing it directly into the editor, then doing all of the bolding and italicizing and linking to other reviews within the editor. The behavior I'm seeing when I do this is exactly the same in both Firefox and IE. Unless there's some weird quirk that makes it more likely for the carriage return at the end of a line to get highlighted when you're trying to bold/italicize a single line of text in Firefox, and this doesn't happen in IE, then I'd say that the problem I'm experiencing is browser independent.
Seriously, though - just tell the HTML validator to ignore the <br /> tags and all should be well. It doesn't choke on links within bold tags, or nested bold and italics, or anything like that. It's likely the fact that <br /> looks like an end tag that is causing it to say, "Hey wait, you opened <b> and tried to close something else before you closed <b>." |
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| divad23 |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 12:55 pm |
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Reviews written: 567 Member since: Aug 21 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Just did a quick test in both IE and Firefox to make sure the highlighting and the bold/italic functions generated the exact same HTML code. They do. This confirms that my problem is browser-independent. |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 2:48 pm |
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Reviews written: 1355 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: jlc2005 ...the old editor was far superior in terms of user friendliness... Ummm, errr, only if one already knows - or is willing to learn - how to code one's own HTML. Seems that a fair number of people are unable and/or unwilling to do so, which is why so many other "enter-it-yourself" sites are HTML-free zones.
If, of course, one doesn't want to bold or italicize anything, then there's not much difference - type in plain text in either editor, and one gets plain text. It's not until one starts using the "new" functionality that everything goes wonky.
-30-
rex
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| jump_chump |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 3:03 pm (Updated: Sep 24 '08, 3:05 pm) |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 04 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: divad23 If Epinions is dependent on a third-party product whose development is being farmed out to weekend warriors who are doing it for free, no wonder it doesn't work!
Open source products -- Firefox, Apache, PHP, Linux, just to name a few -- are used widely throughout the Internet industry. At some point, they were/are all buggy.
Most community members visit web sites that use open source apps every day, even if they don't realize it.
Quote: divad23 Seriously, though - just tell the HTML validator to ignore the <br /> tags and all should be well.
I'll definitely take a look.
damon
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Epinions Engineer
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| divad23 |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 6:43 pm |
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Reviews written: 567 Member since: Aug 21 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: scmrak Ummm, errr, only if one already knows - or is willing to learn - how to code one's own HTML. Seems that a fair number of people are unable and/or unwilling to do so, which is why so many other "enter-it-yourself" sites are HTML-free zones.
The only HTML allowed before was <b>, <i>, and <a href>. (Maybe <p> worked; I don't remember. But since that system interpreted a carriage return as a <br>, it really wasn't necessary to use it.) I don't think it's terribly difficult to learn how to put <b> where you want your bold text to start and </b> where you want your bold text to end. I've taught customers who are completely non-tech savvy how to do this much to get their content posted on sites I've designed for them. Links are a little more advanced, but from what I saw, those who had enough interest in cross-referencing one review to another could work up the ingenuity to figure it out; everyone else didn't use them and didn't need to use them to write good reviews. I would never downgrade a person's review for not using the available HTML tags. They're an enhancement, not a necessity.
That said, I think an "HTML-free zone" is definitely the way to go. I don't think anybody's disputing that a WYSIWYG editor would be superior to our old editor. But an old system that actually works is certainly preferable to a new system that does not work, and that is left in a state of not working for weeks on end.
Quote: scmrak If, of course, one doesn't want to bold or italicize anything, then there's not much difference - type in plain text in either editor, and one gets plain text. It's not until one starts using the "new" functionality that everything goes wonky.
Agreed; it's backwards compatible for those who did it the easy way (i.e. no formatting at all) before. But it should be backwards compatible for everybody, or at least for the most common use cases (in other words, italicizing a line or two of text wasn't an issue before and shouldn't be now).
Quote: jump_chump Open source products -- Firefox, Apache, PHP, Linux, just to name a few -- are used widely throughout the Internet industry. At some point, they were/are all buggy.
Point taken. But there's some decent measure of quality control before they're unleashed on the general public. Or they're released in Beta, and the general public can choose to still use the old version of whatever it is, that they know still works for them, and not be forced to upgrade to something new that hasn't even had its major bugs worked out yet.
I've gone to Yahoo! and borrowed little JavaScript/AJAX tools from their library to use on my sites. It's handy to have open-source stuff out there that I can pick up and use free of charge. I can't expect that I can just plug one in and assume it will work as is on my site without me needing to test it first, and possibly tweak it myself to make it serve the purposes I need it to serve. If I put it on my live website willy-nilly, and it breaks, or it takes away a capability that my users had before, I can't just go, "Whoops, that rascally third-party software, you just never know what you're gonna get! But hey, if you hold down Ctrl-Alt-G while double-clicking and standing on one leg, then it sorta works the way you want it to..." The onus is still on me to fix it, and fix it fast.
Quote: scmrak I'll definitely take a look.
Gracias. |
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| sleeper54 |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 6:47 pm |
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Reviews written: 491 Member since: Feb 24 '01
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: divad23 --snip--
Gracias.
You got a mis-attribution there...
...tom...
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| jump_chump |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 7:56 pm (Updated: Sep 24 '08, 7:58 pm) |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 04 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
I checked the editor bug as divad23 described above. If I understand it correctly, if you write a review, bold some text, and then insert an HTML line break (<br>) within that text, the editor will report the "open without close" and "close without open" message.
I did see that, and it must be annoying.
However, I did the same test on the new, yet-to-be-released version, and the problem did not show up. Kevin, the intern, seems to have fixed it prior to heading back to school.
I'll dig some more tomorrow, but I'm hoping that this particular issue has been resolved.
damon
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Epinions Engineer
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Sep 24 '08, 8:03 pm |
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Reviews written: 627 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: jump_chump If I understand it correctly, if you write a review, bold some text, and then insert an HTML line break (
) within that text, the editor will report the "open without close" and "close without open" message.
Epinions Engineer
It's also the other way around. Start with
multiple
lines
separated by
carriage returns
Then highlight the entire passage, and bold/italicize it.
See if that scenario works in the new release.
Mona
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| divad23 |
Posted: Sep 25 '08, 11:22 am |
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Reviews written: 567 Member since: Aug 21 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: sleeper54 You got a mis-attribution there...
Yeah, I copied and pasted the wrong quote tag. Sorry about that!
Quote: jump_chump I did see that, and it must be annoying.
There's the understatement of the century.
Quote: jump_chump However, I did the same test on the new, yet-to-be-released version, and the problem did not show up. Kevin, the intern, seems to have fixed it prior to heading back to school.
May whatever higher power Kevin the intern believes in bless his soul.
Quote: ladyconsumer It's also the other way around. Start with
multiple
lines
separated by
carriage returns
Then highlight the entire passage, and bold/italicize it.
This is how I usually do it, but the order doesn't matter. You can make the line breaks first or do the bolding/italicizing first and then insert line breaks... either way, you end up with <br> /'s inside <b>'s or <i>'s. The conversion from WYSIWYG to HTML and back is doing exactly what it should be doing in this case... that is perfectly valid HTML. The problem is that the thing that validates your code when you try to submit your review (which I'm assuming is the same validator left over from the old Epinions system) doesn't seem to get the concept of a "self-closing tag", which is what <br /> is. It contains no content, so its "start and end tags" are one in the same. |
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Sep 25 '08, 11:38 am |
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Reviews written: 627 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: divad23 This is how I usually do it, but the order doesn't matter. You can make the line breaks first or do the bolding/italicizing first and then insert line breaks... .
ok - that's good to know - so presumably both ways should work in the new release. GREAT!
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| jump_chump |
Posted: Sep 25 '08, 12:55 pm |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 04 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: ladyconsumer It's also the other way around. Start with
multiple
lines
separated by
carriage returns
Then highlight the entire passage, and bold/italicize it.
Tested this, as well. And it did not incur the error message.
damon
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Epinions Engineer
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Sep 25 '08, 2:58 pm |
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Reviews written: 627 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
That's great news, Damon.
If you want a volunteer to test out the new release, I might be able to find someone.
Mona
Waving hand frantically in air saying "Pick Me! Pick Me!"
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| ifif1938 |
Posted: Sep 25 '08, 8:27 pm |
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Reviews written: 799 Member since: Jan 17 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: ladyconsumer That's great news, Damon.
If you want a volunteer to test out the new release, I might be able to find someone.
Mona
Waving hand frantically in air saying "Pick Me! Pick Me!"
you're brave Mona, really really brave, but if anyone can do it you can...;) |
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| divad23 |
Posted: Sep 26 '08, 10:37 am |
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Reviews written: 567 Member since: Aug 21 '00
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: ladyconsumer ok - that's good to know - so presumably both ways should work in the new release. GREAT!
Indeed, there's a light at the end of this tunnel.
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| jump_chump |
Posted: Sep 26 '08, 6:19 pm (Updated: Sep 26 '08, 6:24 pm) |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 04 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
I closed out the last two or three editor bugs this afternoon. Kevin, the intern, did a great job of fixing most of them, including the open/close tag bug, before leaving.
Definitely, the next release should provide a more stable editing interface, along with the option to toggle on/off the editor. It's actually pretty neat.
There's an example of the toggle at TinyMCE's site. Look for the "add/remove editor" link below the text input box. (Our link will look a little different.)
damon
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Epinions Engineer
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| jump_chump |
Posted: Sep 26 '08, 6:24 pm |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 04 '05
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RE: New WYSIWYG Text Editor Help Thread
Quote: ladyconsumer If you want a volunteer to test out the new release, I might be able to find someone.
Thanks for the offer. It's appreciated.
However, I don't think we'll be staging this release. It'll go straight out for everyone to use.
damon
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Epinions Engineer
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