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Advice please?
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jo.com Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:29 pm           
Reviews written: 1672
Member since: Feb 23 '00
Post: 48147
RE: Advice please?

Quote: lotsofjoy
Sorry.... reviews posted by the same person... I'll reword the original post. thanks!


Oh boy..I understand exactly what you are saying but don't have an answer for you. I understand you are reading reviews most likely from long time members. They aren't exactly duplicate reviews. The database has them in different colors so I guess they are fair game. Still I wish people could just switch around 100 words on these reviews. jo
   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:32 pm           
Reviews written: 658
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48148
RE: Advice please?

Quote: vivasuzi
This is really a sticky subject. Although I agree the consumer might not care nor know the difference, I just feel it's sounds like a member using the system and it makes me wonder! I personally would not feel right about copying a review and "editing" it... I don't know why I'd just feel like i was doing something wrong!

I usually don't even notice if two reviews are similar since you'd have to read them back to back - and even then I might not notice! So I probably would have rated them both VH and not given it a second thought, but knowing that it's possible someone could copy/paste/edit a review in and have 2 posted in just a few minutes kind of bothers me.


I hear ya. I even understand ya. But - assuming the color/size/whatever difference is completely insignificant, shouldn't the reviewer's actual opinion of the product be the same? In which case, the meat & potatoes of the review - the real stuff the consumer's looking for - is going to be the same in both reviews. Right? Say for example it's two highchairs - same product, different color seat. If I'm the consumer, I want to know about the structure, the reliability, the ease of use, etc. I won't give a flip what color is being reivewed. If I come across a review of the red one, and a review of the blue one, from the same reviewer, the important details better be the same. If the important details differed, THAT would cause me to say "what the heck". If I'm the reviewer, I'd want to make it clear that I actually own both the blue and the red one (so no one thinks I'm cheating by not even owning both products), but other than that, since my opinion will be the same, my reviews are going to be pretty darned similar.
   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:36 pm (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  1:37 pm)           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48149
RE: Advice please?

Quote: ladyconsumer
If I'm the reviewer, I'd want to make it clear that I actually own both the blue and the red one (so no one thinks I'm cheating by not even owning both products), but other than that, since my opinion will be the same, my reviews are going to be pretty darned similar.


I think that it would make a difference if the reviewer would comment as such on both his/her reviews "I also own this in red" or whatever, just because then it would show they do own and use both. Like I said, I most likely wouldn't notice, but if I were looking into it too hard I might get frustrated with said reviewer - especially if I see it being done constantly on different products.

**Edit: And if the intent of the reviewer is obviously not out of purposely trying to "game" the site, i might say OK and give them both VHs...but if it was done over and over I might start to question my trust of said user.
   
jo.com Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:36 pm           
Reviews written: 1672
Member since: Feb 23 '00
Post: 48152
A way to avoid this

in the future is please LEADS do not add products like this. I've used this ex. before. In sports there were many body bars all with different weights. I reviewed a few but not all because I ran out of 100 different words to use. I didn't ask for them to be added. Now when I do (medicine balls are an example, they come in various weights so I could have asked that each one be added and reviewed them and changed 100 words but I don't feel good doing that) ask that something like this be added I ask that ONE medicine ball be added. It doesn't matter which one. The ONLY differences are the weight and the colors and that's easily covered on one review.

Do I really have to tell someone that a 15 pound medicine ball is heavier than an 8 pound medicine ball. Just my 2 cents. I agree Doc. It is a database problem as much as anyone's problem. Let's just be careful and make sure the reviews are different enough:) jo

   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:38 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48153
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: jo.com
in the future is please LEADS do not add products like this. I've used this ex. before. In sports there were many body bars all with different weights. I reviewed a few but not all because I ran out of 100 different words to use. I didn't ask for them to be added. Now when I do (medicine balls are an example, they come in various weights so I could have asked that each one be added and reviewed them and changed 100 words but I don't feel good doing that) ask that something like this be added I ask that ONE medicine ball be added. It doesn't matter which one. The ONLY differences are the weight and the colors and that's easily covered on one review.

Do I really have to tell someone that a 15 pound medicine ball is heavier than an 8 pound medicine ball. Just my 2 cents. I agree Doc. It is a database problem as much as anyone's problem. Let's just be careful and make sure the reviews are different enough:) jo


OR do this - http://www.epinions.com/Ziploc_Containers_with_Snap_n_Seal_Lids_-_All_Varieties

It says All Varieties covered in that one category. That would clear up these issues for sure. I hope Epinions cleans up the db in the future.
   
phungus Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:42 pm (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  1:47 pm)           
Reviews written: 2320
Member since: Aug 31 '99
Post: 48155
RE: A way to avoid this

Here's an example:

I have no idea what kind of review this is for, but I just thought of an excellent opportunity to score MAD IS.

Case in point: The Apple iPod Nano.

The nano comes in two different colors and two different capacities. Regardless of color or capacity, functionality is the same.

You could own a 2 gig Black Nano and have all the info you need to review the 2 gig white Nano as well as the 4 gig white and black nanos. All you'd have to do was change a few lines about the color and the capacity of the iPod, and you've got a new review. Sure, you'd be reviewing two different products, but they are basically still the same product.

I could easily come up with the 100 word difference to describe the color and capacity of the iPod. Two paragraphs of the whole review would be different. That's it.

The question is...would that make the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th reviews Not Helpful because I'm still posting the same core review four times? What if somebody was searching for info about a Black iPod, not knowing that they were the same thing as the White one? Your review of the white nano would be basically the same as a black one.

We all know how much IS Electronics reviews rake in, and it would be real easy to take advantage of this. Would your reviews be any less valid?

I'm not saying what lotsofjoy found is wrong or unethical, but I'm just pointing out how it could go both ways. Lots of things on this site are listed by color, especially in the Games and Computer Hardware section, and the products are exactly the same.

   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:51 pm           
Reviews written: 658
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48157
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: vivasuzi
OR do this - http://www.epinions.com/Ziploc_Containers_with_Snap_n_Seal_Lids_-_All_Varieties

It says All Varieties covered in that one category. That would clear up these issues for sure. I hope Epinions cleans up the db in the future.


Agree!! I love those listings that say "All Varieties". I think they're better not only for clearing up this issue, but from the consumer's point of view, as well. Imagine looking for a perfume, and only having to read through one group of reviews. Not seven different groups, because it comes in seven different sizes.

But - until the database is changed, I'm afraid we're stuck with the issue at hand, and this same discussion, that always seems to have people on both sides of the fence.

   
PattyTherre Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:57 pm (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  1:58 pm)           
Reviews written: 1446
Member since: Oct 09 '00
moderator in Online Stores & Services, Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods
Post: 48160
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: phungus
Here's an example:

I have no idea what kind of review this is for, but I just thought of an excellent opportunity to score MAD IS.

Case in point: The Apple iPod Nano.

The nano comes in two different colors and two different capacities. Regardless of color or capacity, functionality is the same.

You could own a 2 gig Black Nano and have all the info you need to review the 2 gig white Nano as well as the 4 gig white and black nanos. All you'd have to do was change a few lines about the color and the capacity of the iPod, and you've got a new review. Sure, you'd be reviewing two different products, but they are basically still the same product.

I could easily come up with the 100 word difference to describe the color and capacity of the iPod. Two paragraphs of the whole review would be different. That's it.

The question is...would that make the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th reviews Not Helpful because I'm still posting the same core review four times? What if somebody was searching for info about a Black iPod, not knowing that they were the same thing as the White one? Your review of the white nano would be basically the same as a black one.

We all know how much IS Electronics reviews rake in, and it would be real easy to take advantage of this. Would your reviews be any less valid?

I'm not saying what lotsofjoy found is wrong or unethical, but I'm just pointing out how it could go both ways. Lots of things on this site are listed by color, especially in the Games and Computer Hardware section, and the products are exactly the same.


The review would be less valid if the reviewer didn't actually own and use all the iPods. I have the black 2 gig Nano. I didn't review it. Too scared. (Electronics is scarier than skydiving to me.)

But even if I did, if I also reviewed the white one and didn't actually own it, it would be wrong.

I feel the same about anything like that. If you actually own the green, red, and purple thingamajig, fine. If you are using the red as an example for all 17 colors in the database, you are wrong. You can't possibly review something you have no experience with even if it is just a different color or size.

In beauty, we could go crazy doing that if wanted to. With, for instance, Body Shop body butters, there are about 15 or more scents. Just because I have the strawberry one doesn't mean I am qualified to write a review of every single one.

It's tough to know if someone actually owns the products they are reviewing or are assuming since it is just a color or size difference that everything else is the same.

I struggle with this when rating often.

Patty
   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  2:02 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48161
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: PattyTherre
You should own them

If you actually own the green, red, and purple thingamajig, fine.


Ok I accept this argument. If the reviewer proves ownership of all colors (and is an honest user - trustworthy) they can review them all. After all it would mean they paid all that money for 2 ipods! But if the user does this constantly with different products, I probably would assume they were not being honest.
   
phungus Posted: Mar 07 '06,  2:04 pm (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  2:05 pm)           
Reviews written: 2320
Member since: Aug 31 '99
Post: 48162
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: PattyTherre
The review would be less valid if the reviewer didn't actually own and use all the iPods. I have the black 2 gig Nano. I didn't review it. Too scared. (Electronics is scarier than skydiving to me.)

But even if I did, if I also reviewed the white one and didn't actually own it, it would be wrong.

I feel the same about anything like that. If you actually own the green, red, and purple thingamajig, fine. If you are using the red as an example for all 17 colors in the database, you are wrong. You can't possibly review something you have no experience with even if it is just a different color or size.

In beauty, we could go crazy doing that if wanted to. With, for instance, Body Shop body butters, there are about 15 or more scents. Just because I have the strawberry one doesn't mean I am qualified to write a review of every single one.

It's tough to know if someone actually owns the products they are reviewing or are assuming since it is just a color or size difference that everything else is the same.

I struggle with this when rating often.

Patty


Okay, so you own the black 2 gig model. Let's say you've had it a month and use it every day and then write a review. After that, you visit an electronics store and spend 5 minutes playing with a white 2 gig model and realize it is exactly the same except for the color. If you were to take your original black review and reword it with more abuot the color - maybe mention how the white would show dirty or funk easier - then repost it, you would still have a valid review. The functionality you described in your black review would be exactly the same. Everything but the color would be the same.

I know that cars are not listed on this site by color. Would a blue 2005 Tacoma drive better than a red one? I don't think so?

Where I am going with this, besides an idea for making a bunch of extra IS for very little work, is that it is yet another example of how the database should be retooled.

Instead of having individual listings for the iPod nano, a simple drop-down box could be added to the review where you could select the color. How hard would that be?

Otherwise, the opportunistic of us could play the system.
   
coops32 Posted: Mar 07 '06,  2:09 pm           
Reviews written: 270
Member since: Sep 24 '05
Post: 48164
hmm..

I have poked around and found a ton of examples where I think it is okay to post the same information within a review.

I of course am no expert:)

I recently wrote two reviews on accessories for my daughter's American Girl Marisol Doll. The meat of the review is very different, however, I do tell the same story which caused me to purchase Marisol in the first place and why I bought all of her accessories. I did try to tell it in different words, but would struggle if I decided to write any more reviews on Marisol's accessories!!!

I think back ground information is vital for a consumer and because of my belief in back groound information, you are going to find my cute little dumb story in both of my Marisol accessory reviews.

Is this wrong???

I also go on to give some general information about product availability in a seperate section at the end. It is the same or very similar in both reviews.

Is this wrong?

How else do you give a consumer an entire picture without including the vital information (there are only so many ways I can tell my silly background story)?

Happy Tuesday!

Courtney

   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  2:13 pm           
Reviews written: 658
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48166
RE: hmm..

My opinion: Nothing wrong at all. (As long as 100 words differ so they're "legal") In fact, I would WANT the same story to be told, because, it's the same purchase, so the story SHOULD be the same!



   
phungus Posted: Mar 07 '06,  2:18 pm           
Reviews written: 2320
Member since: Aug 31 '99
Post: 48169
RE: hmm..

We need to get some of the Electronics leads in here to look at this.

   
coops32 Posted: Mar 07 '06,  2:33 pm           
Reviews written: 270
Member since: Sep 24 '05
Post: 48173
RE: hmm..

Quote: ladyconsumer
My opinion: Nothing wrong at all. (As long as 100 words differ so they're "legal") In fact, I would WANT the same story to be told, because, it's the same purchase, so the story SHOULD be the same!


That makes me feel better, but it would be nice if Epinions could let us have a Background sectiron with no 100 word rule governing that particular section. I can go on and on!!!

I have seen a lot of reviews on the site with background information that is the same for brands or lines and that more than exceeds 100 words. I think it is helpful in each of the reviews it is in, but definitely in violation.....
   
joyfulgirl91 Posted: Mar 07 '06,  5:17 pm           
Reviews written: 157
Member since: May 14 '05
moderator in Home & Garden, Pets
Post: 48193
RE: hmm..

What do you mean by in violation? The same backstory shouldn't be used for multiple products? I'm not sure I understand your premise, but I considered cutting and pasting my backstory on all the method reviews I posted during the w/o. Every single one of them were bought because of my plumbing problems, and I was often so tired I just wanted to duplicate the story instead of writing it in a new way each time. I didn't because it just isn't me, but since the rest of the review about my use and the performance of each product was quite different and way longer than 100 words, how would it be in violation of anything to use the same introduction?

   
sageandsavory Posted: Mar 07 '06,  5:36 pm           
Reviews written: 1
Member since: Mar 10 '00
Post: 48197
RE: Advice please?

Quote: ladyconsumer
I'm of a slightly different mind about this. If the reviews are "legal", and it sounds like they are, then I look at it from a consumer's point of view. Does the consumer who's looking for the green whatever get as helpful a review as the one looking for the yellow whatever? If so, then from the consumer point of view, both reviews are equally helpful. Yes, it might be boring for us members to read both, but a consumer will likely find one or the other, not both. So, I'd be inclined to rate them both independently of the other. Again, this assumes that they meet Epinions' rule of the 100 word difference.


I also view these reviews from a consumer point of view and find these reviews waste my time and are a irritation when using Epinions!

I don't want to read the same review twice, even if someone has technically changed 100 words; especially when the 100 words don't give any NEW valuable product information.

I understand reusing background text or text that provides a really good definition/explanation, but when this comprises almost the entire review I find it less helpful.

Sage
   
mmcphee Posted: Mar 07 '06,  6:09 pm           
Reviews written: 1157
Member since: Oct 14 '03
moderator in Education
Post: 48202
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: jo.com
in the future is please LEADS do not add products like this. jo


But not every item is added by the leads. There are tons of automatic feeds that determine how products are listed. If the feed gives every color that is how they are listed. I have had several reviews CHANGE colors on me long after I posted my review. It's not necessarily the CLs fault.

ME
   
anderclayton Posted: Mar 07 '06,  6:39 pm           
Reviews written: 50
Member since: Dec 18 '99
Post: 48208
RE: Advice please?

Quote: ladyconsumer
ok - then I say the reviews have to be rated accordingly - one vh (or whatever it deserves) and the others nh, unfortunately. That's the way it works when rules are broken. Of course, I'd put a nice comment explaining why the rating, and the writer will probably realize his/her mistake, and udpate accordingly to fix the problem.


Actually I rate them all NH. Why rate one VH when they are breaking the rules?

Ander
   
anderclayton Posted: Mar 07 '06,  6:44 pm           
Reviews written: 50
Member since: Dec 18 '99
Post: 48209
RE: A way to avoid this

Quote: phungus
Okay, so you own the black 2 gig model. Let's say you've had it a month and use it every day and then write a review. After that, you visit an electronics store and spend 5 minutes playing with a white 2 gig model and realize it is exactly the same except for the color. If you were to take your original black review and reword it with more abuot the color - maybe mention how the white would show dirty or funk easier - then repost it, you would still have a valid review. The functionality you described in your black review would be exactly the same. Everything but the color would be the same.

I know that cars are not listed on this site by color. Would a blue 2005 Tacoma drive better than a red one? I don't think so?

Where I am going with this, besides an idea for making a bunch of extra IS for very little work, is that it is yet another example of how the database should be retooled.

Instead of having individual listings for the iPod nano, a simple drop-down box could be added to the review where you could select the color. How hard would that be?

Otherwise, the opportunistic of us could play the system.


No question that they shouldn't have the different colors as different products. The trick is that it is definitely a wonderful (eyeroll sarcasm) opportunity to rack up the hits with little effort.

Ander
   
joyfulgirl91 Posted: Mar 07 '06,  6:46 pm           
Reviews written: 157
Member since: May 14 '05
moderator in Home & Garden, Pets
Post: 48210
RE: Advice please?

Quote: anderclayton
Actually I rate them all NH. Why rate one VH when they are breaking the rules?

Ander


Because this is usually a newbie mistake with no bad intentions - just ask Meagan. ;)
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