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| anderclayton |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 6:48 pm |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: vivasuzi I think that it would make a difference if the reviewer would comment as such on both his/her reviews "I also own this in red" or whatever, just because then it would show they do own and use both.
Actually this sort of thing is essentially irrelevant. It is abuse. They are the same product. If, when Epinions goes on a bug jag in Movies, someone posts a film review both in "In Theaters" and "On Video/DVD" they both get NHs from me regardless of whether the person includes a couple of words about DVD features. It is the same product. The same goes with different colors (basically an irrelevant distinction).
Ander |
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 6:50 pm |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: joyfulgirl91 Because this is usually a newbie mistake with no bad intentions - just ask Meagan. ;)
Then leave a nice, polite, cheerful message as to why you are rating the way that you are, ask them to delete one, and they probably will take it fine.
The person I'm actually talking about when I complain about things in Electronics and abuse of this sort *most definitely* doesn't qualify as a newbie.
Ander |
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 6:51 pm |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: hmm..
Quote: phungus We need to get some of the Electronics leads in here to look at this.
*laugh* Speak of the devil.
Ander |
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 6:54 pm |
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Reviews written: 666 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: anderclayton Actually this sort of thing is essentially irrelevant. It is abuse. They are the same product. If, when Epinions goes on a bug jag in Movies, someone posts a film review both in "In Theaters" and "On Video/DVD" they both get NHs from me regardless of whether the person includes a couple of words about DVD features. It is the same product. The same goes with different colors (basically an irrelevant distinction).
Ander
I think that if it's listed twice - as two separate products (at least in the colors/size scenario - I'm really not sure about the movies scenario) then it's two separate products. And, so, they can both be reviewed (with 100 words different). I don't understand NHing them, or calling it "abuse". Doesn't Epinions WANT the red and the blue highchairs to BOTH be reviewed, and that's WHY they list them twice? Otherwise, they'd be combined, and just listed as "All Colors". Right? |
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| phungus |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 6:58 pm |
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Reviews written: 2320 Member since: Aug 31 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: sageandsavory I also view these reviews from a consumer point of view and find these reviews waste my time and are a irritation when using Epinions!
I don't want to read the same review twice, even if someone has technically changed 100 words; especially when the 100 words don't give any NEW valuable product information.
I understand reusing background text or text that provides a really good definition/explanation, but when this comprises almost the entire review I find it less helpful.
Sage
What about the people that come in, read one or two reviews in the same category, then leave?
What if so-and-so's review of the white one is superior to any of the reviews of the black one, yet the outside visitor only reads the reviews of the black ones? |
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 7:07 pm |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: ladyconsumer I think that if it's listed twice - as two separate products (at least in the colors/size scenario - I'm really not sure about the movies scenario) then it's two separate products. And, so, they can both be reviewed (with 100 words different). I don't understand NHing them, or calling it "abuse". Doesn't Epinions WANT the red and the blue highchairs to BOTH be reviewed, and that's WHY they list them twice? Otherwise, they'd be combined, and just listed as "All Colors". Right?
You could say the same thing about the "in theater"/"On Video" glitch (obviously Eps wants both?). The CLs need to get them to combine the two "seperate" categories. There is no reason to have two different product types for the same thing unless there are other real features that differ. It definitely doesn't do anything good for the site to have the different sorts seperate and actually is less beneficial as a whole to make them seperate.
This doesn't condone duplicate review abuse.
Ander |
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| joyfulgirl91 |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 7:16 pm |
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Reviews written: 157 Member since: May 14 '05
 in Home & Garden, Pets |
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: ladyconsumer Doesn't Epinions WANT the red and the blue highchairs to BOTH be reviewed, and that's WHY they list them twice? Otherwise, they'd be combined, and just listed as "All Colors". Right?
I don't think anybody WANTS this, except for reviewers who love cut and paste. It's not user friendly for consumers, and it only causes frustration among members who want to review their yellow high chair, but have to SAP it because it's been listed only in red and blue. The only reason it happens is because nobody has the inclination or the manpower to correct the glitches or retool items sent over by merchant feed. So, sure, it's legal to review all 10 Body Shop Body Butters, but if you want my respect I hope you have 101 very compelling words to say about the individual fragrances.
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 7:18 pm |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: joyfulgirl91 I don't think anybody WANTS this, except for reviewers who love cut and paste. It's not user friendly for consumers, and it only causes frustration among members who want to review their yellow high chair, but have to SAP it because it's been listed only in red and blue. The only reason it happens is because nobody has the inclination or the manpower to correct the glitches or retool items sent over by merchant feed. So, sure, it's legal to review all 10 Body Shop Body Butters, but if you want my respect I hope you have 101 very compelling words to say about the individual fragrances.
Just because it is "legal" doesn't mean that it isn't Not Helpful.
Ander |
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| anderclayton |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 7:38 pm |
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Reviews written: 50 Member since: Dec 18 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: joyfulgirl91 Because this is usually a newbie mistake with no bad intentions - just ask Meagan. ;)
Also note that rating one VH means that you essentially negate your other rating because in concept other people are using the same system and they might just as easily rate the one you rated NH VH. If you are going to rate one NH, you should probably do it for both for this very reason. Otherwise your ratings become relative random.
Ander |
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| joyfulgirl91 |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 7:52 pm |
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Reviews written: 157 Member since: May 14 '05
in Home & Garden, Pets |
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: anderclayton Also note that rating one VH means that you essentially negate your other rating because in concept other people are using the same system and they might just as easily rate the one you rated NH VH. If you are going to rate one NH, you should probably do it for both for this very reason. Otherwise your ratings become relative random.
Ander
That's not necessarily true. The only reason I tend to ever discover this mistake is when I see a review I consider harmless getting a bunch of NH ratings. The first person to do this usually left a comment stating why, which tells me that this one should get rated NH, but there is another review out there to be rated on its merits. I think enough people do the common sense thing and rate the designated review NH and the other whatever it deserves that it won't all be a wash. I also think it's reasonable to cut some slack in this regard to somebody with a "new" tag on their name, but freely NH both reviews from anybody who should know better. |
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| sageandsavory |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 9:25 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: phungus What about the people that come in, read one or two reviews in the same category, then leave?
What if so-and-so's review of the white one is superior to any of the reviews of the black one, yet the outside visitor only reads the reviews of the black ones?
If the consumer only read the reviews of the black product and stopped reading before they got to the reviews of the white product, which had the "superior" review, then perhaps it was because the consumer had already found the information they wanted and needed.
If the consumer found the reviews under the black in color product they are capable of locating those under the white in color product.
When I am researching a product for purchase I dislike having my time wasted by discovering that I have read the same review twice and that there was either not enough or no new valuable information included to justify the expenditure of my time. When this happens I feel I have been deceived by the writer and I am irritated at Epinions for allowing this to happen.
It would take less time for a member to ask Epinions to merge the various colored products than to change 100 words and post the same information and experience with 100 modified words.
Technically it is not in violation of the TOS if there are a 100 modified words; it is like a technical loophole, not quite right but not in violation. In addition to being an irritating waste of my time as a consumer; as a member when I see these duplicate information reviews with 100 words modified, it says something to me about the posters credibility, integrity, and membership. My opinion is probably not politically correct, but it is how I view the situation and I doubt I am the only one who thinks that way; however, I may be in the minority.
Sage
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| sageandsavory |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 9:28 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: ladyconsumer I think that if it's listed twice - as two separate products (at least in the colors/size scenario - I'm really not sure about the movies scenario) then it's two separate products. And, so, they can both be reviewed (with 100 words different). I don't understand NHing them, or calling it "abuse". Doesn't Epinions WANT the red and the blue highchairs to BOTH be reviewed, and that's WHY they list them twice? Otherwise, they'd be combined, and just listed as "All Colors". Right?
The listings come in from the merchants so duplicate listings happen, Epinions is not intentionally listing colors separately.
Sage |
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| sageandsavory |
Posted: Mar 07 '06, 9:34 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: joyfulgirl91 That's not necessarily true. The only reason I tend to ever discover this mistake is when I see a review I consider harmless getting a bunch of NH ratings. The first person to do this usually left a comment stating why, which tells me that this one should get rated NH, but there is another review out there to be rated on its merits. I think enough people do the common sense thing and rate the designated review NH and the other whatever it deserves that it won't all be a wash. I also think it's reasonable to cut some slack in this regard to somebody with a "new" tag on their name, but freely NH both reviews from anybody who should know better.
I agree, there is no way one could expect a newbie to have read, retained, and understood all the rules.
Everyone was new once, so lets cut the newbies some slack.
How we handle this type of situation with a newbie, could make the difference in retaining that newbie.
Sage |
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| PattyTherre |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 1:55 am |
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Reviews written: 1449 Member since: Oct 09 '00
in Online Stores & Services, Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods |
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RE: A way to avoid this
Quote: phungus Okay, so you own the black 2 gig model. Let's say you've had it a month and use it every day and then write a review. After that, you visit an electronics store and spend 5 minutes playing with a white 2 gig model and realize it is exactly the same except for the color. If you were to take your original black review and reword it with more abuot the color - maybe mention how the white would show dirty or funk easier - then repost it, you would still have a valid review. The functionality you described in your black review would be exactly the same. Everything but the color would be the same.
I know that cars are not listed on this site by color. Would a blue 2005 Tacoma drive better than a red one? I don't think so?
Where I am going with this, besides an idea for making a bunch of extra IS for very little work, is that it is yet another example of how the database should be retooled.
Instead of having individual listings for the iPod nano, a simple drop-down box could be added to the review where you could select the color. How hard would that be?
Otherwise, the opportunistic of us could play the system.
Clearly the answer is in merging this type of product but we don't have that ability. Therefore, I guess we all do what we feel is right.
Some things that seem to be the same except for a scent or color, really aren't at all (Like the Body Butters I mentioned before. Each is unique in many ways). Some things like file folders in red, blue, and green, are the exact same things.
I, personally, don't review the exact same thing in other shades or colors but I certainly could and could easily come up with 100 words difference. I write 500,000 word reviews so 100 words to me is nothing.
I just don't do it because it seems wrong for me to, even though there is nothing at all truly wrong with writing reviews of things that vary just in color or size as long as the 100 word rule is in play. I may review something that I have two of that vary greatly for some reason although they are the same things in different shades/scents/etc. Haven't yet but would if I felt a consumer should know about those differences.
As long as it isn't against TOS and you truly have experience (OK, you may not need to own the thing but have experience with it), I can't fault people for writing reviews of things. That's what we are here for.
We just have to decide ourselves whether we want to do that or not.
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| CyndiA |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 3:29 am |
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Reviews written: 1158 Member since: Jun 25 '00
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RE: A way to avoid this
I'm with Patty on this one.
If I wrote on various colors of say ink pens or highlighters, then I'd space it out in time and start from scratch on the review. Some of those actually are quite different (like one shade in the highlighter may be just right and another a bit too dark and hard to read through). But, I'd be really bored sitting down and doing every color at once, and often I don't have more than one color at a time. |
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| gamblin_man |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 4:42 am |
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Reviews written: 417 Member since: Apr 08 '01
in Home & Garden |
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RE: A way to avoid this
Quote: PattyTherre Clearly the answer is in merging this type of product but we don't have that ability. Therefore, I guess we all do what we feel is right.
We have the same problem in Home and Garden of multiple colors of stains and paints in multiple size packages. The same for package size in glue. The same for multiple colors of housewares and appliances and multiple sizes and combinations of packaging for pots and pans.
We don't have too much problem with "cut and paste" reviews. However, in a thread here a couple of weeks ago the new FAQ on multiple reviews was highlighted. I copy here:
"9. Can I post the same review more than once?
No. Each product or topic must have a unique review. Although many products may contain similarities (for example, among multiple sets of knives by a single manufacturer, the same text could apply to several sets of knives), there should be a minimum of 100 words of unique text in each review and should compare the two products."
It is still not clear that this reads as the intent of Epinions is understood, but, taking it literally, any "copy and paste" of a review to another product must both have a 100 word difference and compare the two products. I haven't had an occasion to rate against this "new" standard yet. I don't know how I will interpret it if I have to.
Quote: PattyTherre I, personally, don't review the exact same thing in other shades or colors but I certainly could and could easily come up with 100 words difference. I write 500,000 word reviews so 100 words to me is nothing.
I just don't do it because it seems wrong for me to, even though there is nothing at all truly wrong with writing reviews of things that vary just in color or size as long as the 100 word rule is in play. I may review something that I have two of that vary greatly for some reason although they are the same things in different shades/scents/etc. Haven't yet but would if I felt a consumer should know about those differences.
As long as it isn't against TOS and you truly have experience (OK, you may not need to own the thing but have experience with it), I can't fault people for writing reviews of things. That's what we are here for.
We just have to decide ourselves whether we want to do that or not.
So far I have mostly resisted the temptation to write on multiple shades of stain or on multiple sizes of container. It may be laziness rather than conscience. I do wonder, however, how many shoppers look for a particular color of stain and, finding no reviews on that shade, give up?
Larry
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| phungus |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 4:45 am (Updated: Mar 08 '06, 4:46 am) |
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Reviews written: 2320 Member since: Aug 31 '99
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RE: A way to avoid this
On the Electronics board, speaking of MP3 players, one of the Leads called it 'hits harvesting'. Yeah it is, but if it meets the 100 word difference, then I guess it only comes to a matter of ethics.
Here's an idea - Write your main review, then for the other colors post an Express Review with a link bank to your main review. We don't get paid for the Express stuff anyway. Just write something like, 'This is a great MP3 player for the money. Lots of great features. Blah blah blah. For my full review of the White one, please visit http:\\www......'
We know there is nothing wrong with including links to other reviews in your reviews, like when you review a movie sequel and provide a link back to your review of the first movie. |
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| drdevience |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 5:14 am |
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Reviews written: 647 Member since: Jun 09 '02
in Movies, Video Games |
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: anderclayton You could say the same thing about the "in theater"/"On Video" glitch (obviously Eps wants both?). The CLs need to get them to combine the two "seperate" categories. There is no reason to have two different product types for the same thing unless there are other real features that differ. It definitely doesn't do anything good for the site to have the different sorts seperate and actually is less beneficial as a whole to make them seperate.
This doesn't condone duplicate review abuse.
Ander
Ander..
The analogy doesn't hold. In the case of movies, the two are eventually merged. That is a completely different animal and dores not apply here.
Quote: joyfulgirl91 So, sure, it's legal to review all 10 Body Shop Body Butters, but if you want my respect I hope you have 101 very compelling words to say about the individual fragrances.
Again, differnt animals. The base may be the same, but the scents certainly are not. Some may be stronger than others in the body butter example... and perfumes, well, I do think those should be merged, but I found reason for the mini bottles to be there and reviewed (cap-action)
Quote: phungus On the Electronics board, speaking of MP3 players, one of the Leads called it 'hits harvesting'. Yeah it is, but if it meets the 100 word difference, then I guess it only comes to a matter of ethics.
Whoah. Getting more hits for Epinions. Those b*st*rds! (Just FYI folks.. Eps wants more hits... it ups their ad revenue. WHO gets those hits is just us nitpicking)
SnarkyDoc |
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| phungus |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 5:31 am |
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Reviews written: 2320 Member since: Aug 31 '99
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: drdevience
Whoah. Getting more hits for Epinions. Those b*st*rds! (Just FYI folks.. Eps wants more hits... it ups their ad revenue. WHO gets those hits is just us nitpicking)
SnarkyDoc
That's what I was thinking!
Here's the issue: I own a Creative Zen Micro MP3 player. It comes in several different colors and capacities, but inside it is exactly the same in terms of functionality. I could take my core review and spawn a dozen more just like it for each of the different color/capacity combos listed on this site. Given what I've made in IS off that one review, I could easily make an extra couple Benjamins or more by reposting my first review with a few things changed in regard to color. Yeah, it is tempting. |
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| joyfulgirl91 |
Posted: Mar 08 '06, 5:41 am |
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Reviews written: 157 Member since: May 14 '05
in Home & Garden, Pets |
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RE: Advice please?
Quote: phungus Yeah, it is tempting.
Resist! Please I want to like you.
That Body Butter analogy was probably not a good one, because they are as different from each other as any other highly fragranced nut-butter based lotions on the market. If you can write a good review of a L'Occitane product, a Fresh product, and a Body Butter, you can write equally good reviews of each of the different butters. Then it becomes a debate about what makes a good beauty review period, and I'm not ready to throw down in that discussion. I think this discussion is only applicable to the exact same item available in different color patterns or different sizes, like strollers or perfumes. |
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