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| B_Campbell |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:15 am |
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Reviews written: 204 Member since: Mar 28 '00
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Eff this
In most cases it seems like people put "naughty" words in their reviews for a few basic reasons:
1 - To push the envelope, be a rebel, etc.
2 - To be funny
3 - To actually reference something related to the product
#3 is I think the one that most of us agree is acceptable use. If a song has a word in the title, it makes sense to use it when talking about the title in the review.
#1 and #2, personally, strike me about as far away from the writer's intent as possible. Want to be a real Epinions rebel? Start calling out high-profile members on review padding. Want to be funny? Drop the f-bombs and put some effort into it.
In the end, there will always be a way to skirt filters. If you've ever tried to get a questionable custom license plate you know how carefully state DMV's look at those, but just the other day I saw one that said "Eph Oph". Creative, but still skirting. Regardless of what someone actually says, skirting the word filter is a violation of Epinions policy. Period. If you do it, you should expect to get some warnings at some point.
Personally, I'm not as touchy about the issue as I used to be. In Games, I'll only really make a deal about it if something is really objectionable in the title. Inside the review, I'm a bit more lenient, but as others have said it's all about context. If you're putting it in there just to put it in there, yeah that might raise a flag and as a category advisor I'll usually suggest removing it. If it actually adds to the review, and especially if the review is of an M-rated game, it's more likely to slide by. |
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| pearannoyed |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:19 am |
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Reviews written: 197 Member since: Oct 03 '03
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RE: Swearing
Quote: phungus How did this turn into a discussion of how people are offended by words associated with their beliefs?
At the root of this issue is whether or not something can drop a little HTML code in the middle of a cuss word to cheat the filter and put it into a review.
If we want to ever have any respect from the outside community, then we cannot allow people to post reviews full of profanity and them be seen by outside viewers.
Obviously we can drop a little HTML to get past the filter. The question is whether we should.
Again, I postulate that it depends on context. I don't want to see, "This coffee pot is f***ing awesome." It's not articulate, it's not descriptive, and it would probably be offensive to the majority of middle America housewives who are researching said coffee pot.
I have less concern over the review of a rap album that quotes a few lyrics or even 'talks' in the kind of vernacular frequently displayed by those that would be seeking out the music. In that context, the word seems less offensive to me. Maybe that's a double standard... welcome to the real world. Double standards are a fact of life.
I actually think the Epinions policy of requesting changes based on whether they get complaints about a particular review is reasonable. |
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| pearannoyed |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:22 am |
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Reviews written: 197 Member since: Oct 03 '03
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RE: Eff this
Quote: B_Campbell "Eph Oph"
And I guarantee that as soon as someone makes a complaint to the DMV in your locale, they'll send this person a letter and require them to change their plate. |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:27 am (Updated: May 03 '06, 8:29 am) |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: B_Campbell In the end, there will always be a way to skirt filters. If you've ever tried to get a questionable custom license plate you know how carefully state DMV's look at those, but just the other day I saw one that said "Eph Oph". Creative, but still skirting. Regardless of what someone actually says, skirting the word filter is a violation of Epinions policy. Period. If you do it, you should expect to get some warnings at some point.
I agree! My problem is that people have to "trick" the system into letting them swear, so in my mind they are doing it for no other reason than just to show that they can through the words in there. If epinions said you can no longer say "crap" in a review, and people still use creative tricks to say it - well I'd say that's just not right.
Doc implies that in Europe they don't worry about swearing. So if you want to write for a european site go for it! But it's not just about the country for me, it's about the sites rules. Honestly if this site said "swear all you want - we don't give a s***", I wouldn't even care if people swore - but I also would keep people like my mom away from the site. The fact is the site blocks you from swearing without tricks, so I don't see WHY people insist on doing it.
**Edit: even when I've had songs or movie quotes that contained swear words, I edited the bad words out completely or starred them or something. I never fooled the system into letting me swear.
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:27 am |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: pearannoyed And I guarantee that as soon as someone makes a complaint to the DMV in your locale, they'll send this person a letter and require them to change their plate.
Um, maybe I don't see what's wrong with that :) Someone enlighten me please! |
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| pearannoyed |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:37 am |
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Reviews written: 197 Member since: Oct 03 '03
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RE: Eff this
Quote: vivasuzi Um, maybe I don't see what's wrong with that :) Someone enlighten me please!
Say it out loud. |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:52 am |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: pearannoyed Say it out loud.
I tried, I just can't figure it out, maybe I'm just saying it wrong. |
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| gamblin_man |
Posted: May 03 '06, 8:55 am |
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Reviews written: 422 Member since: Apr 08 '01
 in Home & Garden |
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RE: Eff this
Quote: vivasuzi I tried, I just can't figure it out, maybe I'm just saying it wrong.
Try F*** off!
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| drdevience |
Posted: May 03 '06, 9:24 am |
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Reviews written: 647 Member since: Jun 09 '02
in Movies, Video Games |
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RE: Eff this
Quote: vivasuzi even when I've had songs or movie quotes that contained swear words, I edited the bad words out completely or starred them or something. I never fooled the system into letting me swear.
Because if you put a * in place of a 'U', it is perfectly ok...... because, like, your mom would never in a million years know what it was meant to say.
SnickeringDoc |
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| underdawg |
Posted: May 03 '06, 10:06 am |
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Reviews written: 228 Member since: Jul 23 '04
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RE: Eff this
I think there's a fourth reason people use swear words. They express things! "Darnit!" and "Goddamm it!" mean pretty different things. Sure, there are plenty of other words to use from the dictionary but when you say "I f*cking hate this product" everyone knows that you really really really hate it while if you say "I loathe/detest/abhor this product very very strongly", people don't really know the extent of your hate.
I don't cuss in my reviews often, but when I do, it's because it expresses how I feel about that product. This is pretty silly actually, if it's to protect the children, you think they don't know what these words are? Around 13 or so, everyone gets really potty-mouthed cause it seems rebellious and cool. Most people grow out of it. Some epinions.com reviews aren't going to change that. |
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| underdawg |
Posted: May 03 '06, 10:07 am |
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Reviews written: 228 Member since: Jul 23 '04
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RE: Eff this
Quote: drdevience Because if you put a * in place of a 'U', it is perfectly ok...... because, like, your mom would never in a million years know what it was meant to say.
SnickeringDoc
Well I for one am too lazy to figure out how to go around the filter. I think I speak for a lot of **'ers when I say this. |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 10:08 am |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: gamblin_man Try F*** off!
Yeah my boyfriend explained it to me :P Guess I'm slow! I was saying it weird and it didn't come out like that :) |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 10:10 am (Updated: May 03 '06, 10:17 am) |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: drdevience Because if you put a * in place of a 'U', it is perfectly ok...... because, like, your mom would never in a million years know what it was meant to say.
SnickeringDoc
No because that is the accepted standard that my mom would be willing to accept. She doesn't mind watching comedy central when they bleep out the bad words but will not watch when she actually has to hear the swear words. The point my mom would make is not that SHE doesn't know the word but that kids and teens wouldn't be seeing the bad words - and hopefully if you raised your kids right they wouldn't know the words either. And even if they do know the words, they shouldn't be taught that is acceptable to use them because that will just make it hard for them to not use them when they go to school, work or anywhere else where bad language is punished. Heck, even if they swear too loud in public you can get sued! Why continue swearing when there is no need?
Besides, I *usually* end up replacing the word with an acceptable alternative rather than starring it out, so rather than the s word, I'd say crap or soemthing. The quote sounds just as funny as before! but there are no swear words to muck it up.
As for the comment someone else said above about swearing makes your point stronger - well I've never sworn in my reviews and the words aren't even in my vocabulary in real life yet no one has questioned when I hate a product. If you are a good enough writer, you don't need to swear for people to understand that you hate something. |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 10:14 am (Updated: May 03 '06, 10:20 am) |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: underdawg Around 13 or so, everyone gets really potty-mouthed cause it seems rebellious and cool. Most people grow out of it. Some epinions.com reviews aren't going to change that.
Not true - not everyone does and we shouldn't generalize that all kids know bad words b/c some kids (ie me) never even were exposed to it til I was an adult and even now if someone hear's me say something that "sounds like" i swore they are shocked. Just b/c "everyone's doing it" doesn't mean it should be "no big deal" At least that's my mindset.
But let me just repeat something I said earlier... Honestly if this site said "swear all you want - we don't give a s***", I wouldn't even care if people swore It's the sites rules and we shouldn't be breaking them. |
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| pearannoyed |
Posted: May 03 '06, 11:26 am |
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Reviews written: 197 Member since: Oct 03 '03
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RE: Eff this
Quote: vivasuzi Besides, I *usually* end up replacing the word with an acceptable alternative rather than starring it out, so rather than the s word, I'd say crap or soemthing. The quote sounds just as funny as before! but there are no swear words to muck it up.
Two questions.
1) Isn't it technically a mis-quote if you replace a part of what was said in a movie or on a CD with a word of your own choosing? Many directors feel that the language used in their films is an integral part of the experience and have refused to allow them to even be 'edited for television'. You can choose to represent a word used in a different way, but it's improper to alter a quote.
2)I've always wondered... why is 'crap' less offensive than 'shit'? Why is 'poo' or 'poop' considered cute instead of dirty? They are all euphemistic of fecal matter - why not consider them equally offensive?
Just wondering. |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 11:35 am |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: pearannoyed Two questions.
1) Isn't it technically a mis-quote if you replace a part of what was said in a movie or on a CD with a word of your own choosing? Many directors feel that the language used in their films is an integral part of the experience and have refused to allow them to even be 'edited for television'. You can choose to represent a word used in a different way, but it's improper to alter a quote.
2)I've always wondered... why is 'crap' less offensive than 'shit'? Why is 'poo' or 'poop' considered cute instead of dirty? They are all euphemistic of fecal matter - why not consider them equally offensive?
Just wondering.
1) As for the quotes, I'm usually just trying to show the person why the movie was funny and don't think any director would be mad that I told someone go see this movie - here's a funny quote
2) Once again, I am not questioning WHAT is offensive, even though people keep bringing that up! I'm of the mindset that everything is just words - but I know what people find acceptable and I choose to use terms that know that most people find acceptable. Although my mom doesn't like when I say Crap, so it's still considered equally offensive to some. The question isn't whether a word offensive or not - it's whether or not we should be using words in or review that epinions has determined are not allowed. And I say we shouldn't |
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| sageandsavory |
Posted: May 03 '06, 11:39 am |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Mar 10 '00
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RE: Swearing
Quote: pearannoyed
Generally speaking, I'm not offended by words... they're just words afterall. But depending on context I might be highly offended by the sentiment or casualness with which certain words are used.
So I won't automatically downrate based on use of filtered words; but if you put them in your review, they better be there for a darn good reason.
I agree with what you have said Amy.
I once read an Epinions review that I found very offensive and would have still found it offensive even if all the words which should have been filtered out had been exchanged for words the filter approved.
Sage
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| panguitch |
Posted: May 03 '06, 11:41 am |
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Reviews written: 285 Member since: Jul 30 '02
in Books, Magazines & Newspapers |
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RE: Eff this
Quote: joyfulgirl91 As much as I would like to be supercool and say a word is a word and it's all sofa/divan to me, I get very different pictures in my head if I imagine somebody saying "I need to go potty" and "I've gotta take a s***".
Yes. The juvenile, posed nonchalance toward shocking the grown-ups is not usually something I find entertaining. Like anything, it can be done skillfully. Like most things, it rarely is.
I strongly disagree when people suggest that words don't matter. Words do matter. If they didn't, we wouldn't have so many of them. We wouldn't have five million ways of referring to excrement if each one didn't have its own unique power.
Quote: vivasuzi Honestly if this site said "swear all you want - we don't give a s***", I wouldn't even care if people swore.
I would. If I started seeing it everywhere I'd find it exceedingly tiresome. It would make epinions less of a place where I want to be. But perhaps that only proves, as Lori suggests, that I've been brainwashed.
Quote: drdevience you are the product of brainwashing and conditioning. . . . (and in an unrelated post) . . . It boils down to ignorance, in my book.
While I understand the argument that a person who takes offense at another's word choice does so out of ignorance, I think an opposite argument is at least as valid in at least as many cases: a disregard for the sensibilities of others is a symptom of ignorance. That or of antisocial self-prepossession.
Of course, in the modern politically correct society I often think that the only label that truly retains its nastiness is "ignorant." People use it on each other in a way that ought to make their mothers reach for the soap for a good mouth-washing. But that's tangential.
Personally, I don't swear because I don't feel a need to. Moreover, coming out of my mouth such words would feel uncomfortable through disfamiliarity, in the same way that contumely, minacious, or casuistry would if I were to try and use them. They're just not me.
I don't particularly care if someone swears, as long as they use the word in just the same way any word might be used. But in so many cases, even if they profess otherwise, people employ such words as illocutionary acts. They want their words to do something. And illocutionary acts can be presumptuous or manipulative, and distasteful in that sense.
If within a culture the word canoodle is commonly felt to be obscene, then rather than criticize that culture for its arbitrary mores I prefer to respect them by not using the word. I don't walk around naked, fart loudly in restaurants, or greet my coworkers with an upraised middle finger. The reasons for these customs may or may not seem silly to me. That's not the point. The point is that no amount of argument can change the fact that it's rude for me not to shake a new acquaintance's hand when it's offered. The gesture's arbitrariness does not make it meaningless.
-Andy |
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| pearannoyed |
Posted: May 03 '06, 11:53 am |
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Reviews written: 197 Member since: Oct 03 '03
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RE: Eff this
Quote: vivasuzi The question isn't whether a word offensive or not - it's whether or not we should be using words in or review that epinions has determined are not allowed. And I say we shouldn't
I wasn't trying to imply that we should allow unrestrained swearing on Epinions. I was just commenting on the often unbalanced nature of opinion and perception.
I agree with the core premise that the use of certain words should be discouraged on the site. But I also think that context and whether someone is actually offended should be taken into account. |
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| vivasuzi |
Posted: May 03 '06, 12:11 pm (Updated: May 03 '06, 12:17 pm) |
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Reviews written: 32 Member since: Mar 06 '00
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RE: Eff this
Quote: panguitch I would. If I started seeing it everywhere I'd find it exceedingly tiresome. It would make epinions less of a place where I want to be. But perhaps that only proves, as Lori suggests, that I've been brainwashed.
Well I have the opinion that if you open the floodgates now there would probably be a lot of random swearing - but down the line it would even out. Like with underage drinking... in england they don't have teens getting drunk b/c to them it's no big deal. Here, teens get drunk to be cool and break the law. It's when you make something into a big deal that people try to break the rules.
Quote: panguitch If within a culture the word canoodle is commonly felt to be obscene, then rather than criticize that culture for its arbitrary mores I prefer to respect them by not using the word. I don't walk around naked, fart loudly in restaurants, or greet my coworkers with an upraised middle finger. The reasons for these customs may or may not seem silly to me. That's not the point. The point is that no amount of argument can change the fact that it's rude for me not to shake a new acquaintance's hand when it's offered. The gesture's arbitrariness does not make it meaningless.
I just realized this is kind of what I said in my next post! So I will be deleting that statement and instead I say "ditto" to this. |
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