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| Freak369 |
Original Post: May 08 '08, 6:31 am |
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Reviews written: 4525 Member since: Feb 05 '00
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Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Is there enough communication between site members and site management?
I have been wondering when hits will actually update to reviews as far back as October of 2007. I emailed GG and Andy about it and was assured that it was being addressed but that doesn't do much when I see 55 people have rated a review but it is only showing that 26 of the hits have actually registered.
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Plagiarism amongst new and established members is out of control, MPA lists are so inaccurate that it's pointless to even look at them and some members are contemplating jumping ship because of other events at the site.
I don't care if it is going to take five months to get something fixed - leaving people in the dark forces them to think of the worst case scenario. A weekly or bi-weekly update on site issues would be really nice. Is this something that Epinions can do on a regular basis? I sure hope so because from what I have been getting in emails from other members, a lot of people are ready to leave the site. And then what will happen? The SH reviews will choke the life out of whatever is left. |
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| pilarzmom |
Posted: May 08 '08, 7:07 am |
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Reviews written: 772 Member since: Jan 18 '03
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
While I can't imagine weekly communication (would love it) I think at least monthly communication is reasonable.
Lately I think a ton of us have been feeling a bit depressed about the state of things here. The 10 4 10 is nice but it's not what keeps me here. I love to write and I love it when I can share info about a product, destination, etc. Most of us are not professional writers so the ego-boo is a huge part of why we're here. When we see little or no outside hits, combined with no IS, it just doesn't give me the ego-boo that I am looking for. At this point only a few H&G reviews and my travel reviews are giving me that feeling.
Of course, having GG & Andy leave only adds to the depressed state of affairs. Yeah, they said it was to pursue new opportunities outside of Eps and I can certainly understand that. But it doesn't eliminate that feeling that they were jumping ship off a sinking ship. |
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| brentp256 |
Posted: May 08 '08, 7:46 am |
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Reviews written: 218 Member since: Jul 18 '00
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No.
No.
See:
http://www.epinions.com/msg/show_~threads/cat_id_~121/id_~20381/forum_id_~441 |
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| three_ster |
Posted: May 08 '08, 10:08 am |
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Reviews written: 1696 Member since: Jun 26 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: Freak369 Is there enough communication between site members and site management?
I have been wondering when hits will actually update to reviews as far back as October of 2007. I emailed GG and Andy about it and was assured that it was being addressed but that doesn't do much when I see 55 people have rated a review but it is only showing that 26 of the hits have actually registered.
That's just the tip of the iceberg. Plagiarism amongst new and established members is out of control, MPA lists are so inaccurate that it's pointless to even look at them and some members are contemplating jumping ship because of other events at the site.
I don't care if it is going to take five months to get something fixed - leaving people in the dark forces them to think of the worst case scenario. A weekly or bi-weekly update on site issues would be really nice. Is this something that Epinions can do on a regular basis? I sure hope so because from what I have been getting in emails from other members, a lot of people are ready to leave the site. And then what will happen? The SH reviews will choke the life out of whatever is left.
July 3, 2006. That is the day that I posted a review, which now has 97 member rates. It was when Scrubbing Bubbles first came out, and was very VERY popular for a short while. Almost immediately I noticed a problem, and e-mailed Epinions about there being more rates than hits counted. Seems pretty straight-forward, and I explained the problem thoroughly to 3 different people. I was told it would be fixed, it would be looked in to, and then the responses stopped. Three e-mails were sent after the last response, and still nothing has been done, and it seems I am being ignored now.
Hits are missing, and it is pretty darn obvious. 2 years later, I still have more ratings than credited member hits, and I feel like I was given a complete run-around. There have been problems for a couple of years when it comes to counting hits, and I have noticed it time and again.
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| mobiprof |
Posted: May 08 '08, 10:41 am |
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Reviews written: 181 Member since: Jun 27 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: Freak369 Is there enough communication between site members and site management?
Is that a trick question?
- AlertProf
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| BigJack |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:02 am |
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Reviews written: 73 Member since: Apr 24 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: pilarzmom
Of course, having GG & Andy leave only adds to the depressed state of affairs. Yeah, they said it was to pursue new opportunities outside of Eps and I can certainly understand that. But it doesn't eliminate that feeling that they were jumping ship off a sinking ship.
I think it's almost certainly the latter. Since I came back to the site some six months ago or so, things have steadily slipped.
1) GG and Andy both leaving within weeks of each other - not a good sign, particularly when neither one has been replaced.
2) It seems like new bugs pop up every day, and the old ones still haven't been fixed.
3) The 10-4-10 promotion - the negatives are starting to outweigh the positives, but it keeps going month after month. This convinces me that it's nothing more than a short term gimmick to increase site traffic - a gimmick that's unsustainable.
I'm not saying Epinions is going under, but the future is not bright. I'd be cashing out every month, if I actually earned enough each month to cash out :)
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| pehr |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:14 am |
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Reviews written: 7 Member since: Oct 26 '06
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
I'm very interested in hearing how we might have more formal communication with everyone - I recognize there are bugs, I recognize that the proximity of Andy and Garrett's departures don't look great to the outside world. Trust me that we're trying to fill those positions, fix the bugs, and continue to enhance the site.
While I agree that weekly is probably too often, maybe a monthly report would keep people better abreast on the progress we've made.
Look forward to people's thoughts...
(As for the 10 4 10, it has expanded our review count significantly - thus benefitting the shopper - and has not had an impact on quality. So from this perspective, it has been quite a successful program.) |
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| almarsezstuff |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:21 am |
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Reviews written: 3 Member since: Nov 05 '07
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Lots of good points and I'll try to address each of them as best I can. I'll quote you, Freak369, since you started the thread.
Quote: Freak369 Is there enough communication between site members and site management?
I hate to say it, but Garrett and Andy were on the boards almost every day answering questions. I'll do my best to do the same. However, I don't think that's really the issue. I think there is a difference between the number of communications and the content of it and I think you what guys want to hear about is progress. I can come on every day, every hour even, to give some sort of status, but that wouldn't be productive for any of us because nothing will be different. On the other hand, if my "formal" updates contain real updates to the site, I'm hoping that's what everyone wants to hear. If I'm misinterpreting the question here, please let me know.
Quote: Freak369 I emailed GG and Andy about it and was assured that it was being addressed but that doesn't do much when I see 55 people have rated a review but it is only showing that 26 of the hits have actually registered.
I address this on the other thread. Yes, we are working on it. I know you're growing tired of us saying that, but you have to believe me when I say it. I saw the list and we've stressed it a number of times. We discussed these fixes in our meetings as recently as yesterday.
Quote: Freak369 Plagiarism amongst new and established members is out of control, MPA lists are so inaccurate that it's pointless to even look at them and some members are contemplating jumping ship because of other events at the site.
One of the great things about our community is that it's self policing. I've had the opportunity to look at some of the abuse items that are sent in. Not only do the numbers seem in line with what I've seen in the past (no more, no less basically), but by the time I actually investigate, you guys have already flagged it appropriately. However, I will need your continued assistance on this until we fill our open positions. I'm not asking for your pity or your empathy, just your patience. We'll get through this if we all stick together during this transition.
Quote: Freak369 I don't care if it is going to take five months to get something fixed - leaving people in the dark forces them to think of the worst case scenario. A weekly or bi-weekly update on site issues would be really nice. Is this something that Epinions can do on a regular basis? I sure hope so because from what I have been getting in emails from other members, a lot of people are ready to leave the site. And then what will happen? The SH reviews will choke the life out of whatever is left.
I don't like signing up for timelines, but I'll do my best not to leave anyone in the dark. If I understand the timing, it's not going to take 5 months. I'll do my best to communicate anything relevant the moment I hear it. When we get to something big and we can cross it off the list, I'll make sure that's announced as well. As for the number SH reviews, that hasn't changed. Most reviews that come in are still H or VH.
The ship isn't sinking. Far from it. I've been on sinking ships before and for those who know what I'm talking about, they'll agree this is not it. We can and should have healthy discussions like this, but in the end we all need to stick together, and I can't stress that enough.
-Almar |
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| pablothegreat |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:27 am |
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Reviews written: 919 Member since: Dec 05 '07
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Since I am new and don't know who is at the top maybe my perception is off but....
is taking time to respond to message board posts helping in any way? What I mean is I keep thinking if the ONE person at the top is here reading posts and responding...who is running the ship and who is working on issues?
Quote: almarsezstuff Lots of good points and I'll try to address each of them as best I can. I'll quote you, Freak369, since you started the thread.
I hate to say it, but Garrett and Andy were on the boards almost every day answering questions. I'll do my best to do the same. However, I don't think that's really the issue. I think there is a difference between the number of communications and the content of it and I think you what guys want to hear about is progress. I can come on every day, every hour even, to give some sort of status, but that wouldn't be productive for any of us because nothing will be different. On the other hand, if my "formal" updates contain real updates to the site, I'm hoping that's what everyone wants to hear. If I'm misinterpreting the question here, please let me know.
I address this on the other thread. Yes, we are working on it. I know you're growing tired of us saying that, but you have to believe me when I say it. I saw the list and we've stressed it a number of times. We discussed these fixes in our meetings as recently as yesterday.
One of the great things about our community is that it's self policing. I've had the opportunity to look at some of the abuse items that are sent in. Not only do the numbers seem in line with what I've seen in the past (no more, no less basically), but by the time I actually investigate, you guys have already flagged it appropriately. However, I will need your continued assistance on this until we fill our open positions. I'm not asking for your pity or your empathy, just your patience. We'll get through this if we all stick together during this transition.
I don't like signing up for timelines, but I'll do my best not to leave anyone in the dark. If I understand the timing, it's not going to take 5 months. I'll do my best to communicate anything relevant the moment I hear it. When we get to something big and we can cross it off the list, I'll make sure that's announced as well. As for the number SH reviews, that hasn't changed. Most reviews that come in are still H or VH.
The ship isn't sinking. Far from it. I've been on sinking ships before and for those who know what I'm talking about, they'll agree this is not it. We can and should have healthy discussions like this, but in the end we all need to stick together, and I can't stress that enough.
-Almar
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| jps246 |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:32 am (Updated: May 08 '08, 11:33 am) |
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Reviews written: 846 Member since: Jan 25 '01
in Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: pablothegreat is taking time to respond to message board posts helping in any way? What I mean is I keep thinking if the ONE person at the top is here reading posts and responding...who is running the ship and who is working on issues?
I think most members would appreciate Eps staff taking the time to look over the message boards and respond personally to the postings, even if that means they have a few less minutes in the day to work on other things.
How long does it take to read the message boards? If you stay on top of it, it's only a few minutes here and there.
Plus I would like to think that if they are reading the boards and seeing these issues continually cropping up, it'll be something they might invest a little more time in trying to fix.
Jeff |
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| njchicaa |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:33 am |
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Reviews written: 734 Member since: Jun 27 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: pablothegreat
is taking time to respond to message board posts helping in any way? What I mean is I keep thinking if the ONE person at the top is here reading posts and responding...who is running the ship and who is working on issues?
My understanding is that the engineers are working on bug issues and Almar is not an engineer.
I for one appreciate both his and Pehr's contributions to this thread. It is nice to see that they are at least keeping an eye on our posts and that they know what our concerns are.
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:36 am |
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Reviews written: 632 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: pehr I'm very interested in hearing how we might have more formal communication with everyone
Hi Pehr,
My 2 suggestions:
I would like to suggest a regular “state of the union” address. Given via any method you like – it can be emails, posted on the member center, here on the boards, or any combination. HOW you get the message out doesn’t really matter, only that the message gets out. I would do it at least quarterly. In that address I would include all the normal things an address typically includes – like all the neat PR stuff. But, it must also have a section for “known issues”. List them all out. And next to each one, put some kind of status. Even if the status is nothing more than “not being addressed at this time”. At least it tells us that management has the issue on their radar. And each new address must include all open items from the prior list. With an updated status – hopefully some will switch to “solved”. :-)
Besides satisfying our curiosity about the progress being made, such a list will also confirm that an issue is, indeed “known”. Recently I submitted a bug report for something quite big, an issue I’ve never seen addressed here on the boards. Did I hear anything back? Nope. Therefore I have no idea whether the bug report made it to the proper place. How nice it would be to see a list of known issues, so I could find out whether my bug is there, or not. This way I know if I have to resubmit, or not.
Secondly, I would engage the community to help, wherever possible. By this I mean, if the Engineers need concrete examples to help solve the problems, put a call out for examples. If they need hands/eyes/whatever to help sort/proof/test/whatever, put the call out. I’m sure there are plenty of people who would be more than happy to volunteer some time to help in any way they can. We’re here – use us!
That’s it, for now. I reserve the right to add more later. :-)
Mona |
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| millinocket |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:43 am |
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Reviews written: 486 Member since: Aug 24 '02
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: almarsezstuff I think there is a difference between the number of communications and the content of it
Almar, I can't (obviously) speak for everyone, but that is exactly where I am. I would rather you told me one time that you met this week and talked about fixing the /review/ bug specifically than told me a thousand times that "things are being done" or "we're working hard". That makes it seem like we don't know or appreciate the work you're all doing, and we honestly do. It just helps to have the problems currently being addressed identified specifically by Eps staff.
Quote: almarsezstuff However, I will need your continued assistance on this until we fill our open positions. I'm not asking for your pity or your empathy, just your patience. We'll get through this if we all stick together during this transition.
Does this effectively change the previous position that potentially plagiarized reviews be rated on merit and then reported to abuse? It doesn't matter to me either way (except when the accusations are wrong), but I'd like a little guidance on what you prefer - NH with sources or report to abuse without rating or rating on merit.
Quote: almarsezstuff As for the number SH reviews, that hasn't changed. Most reviews that come in are still H or VH.
I know a lot of people don't like the 10 4 10/20 or see it as diluting the quality of the site. In Movies I've seen much more traffic and some great new writers. Some plagiarism, sure, but not more than I would expect with this kind of review volume. Honestly, I do think it's good for the site as long as the tech issues get fixed.
Sue
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| trailhound |
Posted: May 08 '08, 11:59 am |
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Reviews written: 653 Member since: May 21 '04
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: ladyconsumer But, it must also have a section for “known issues”. List them all out. And next to each one, put some kind of status. Mona
That's a good idea. I posted a message on the ''Bugs'' message board about the Overall Rating (# of stars) incorrect on some reviews. I have no idea if this is a known bug that is being worked on, or yet another bug that is cropping up. -Dave
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| almarsezstuff |
Posted: May 08 '08, 12:11 pm |
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Reviews written: 3 Member since: Nov 05 '07
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
njchicaa is correct. I'm not one of the engineers. I wouldn't know linux from Linus unless someone told me (I'm kidding, I know who Linus is *wink*). But I do talk to the engineers daily so they know exactly what's going on. So until we fill our open positions, consider me and Pehr to be at your disposal for issues, questions, concerns, etc. As I mentioned earlier, we'll do our best to address each one as it arises.
Mona, I'm sure Pehr will see your post, but I wanted to let you know you bring up all great ideas. I'm actually putting together a plan (i.e. writing ideas as I think of them) of how to communicate more formally on a regular basis with everyone here. Not just the frequency of the communications, but the content and delivery of each one as well. I also wanted to add that at the Meet & Greet this past March, we included a "State of Epinions" as part of the event. From the feedback I received, this went over quite well. I was afraid of boring everyone with stats and engineering jargon, but in fact, those who attended wanted that and more. This is also planned for Chicago in June and I see no reason why we can't share the content of those discussions with everyone else after the M&G.
Again, great stuff, Mona. Thank you for your feedback.
-Almar |
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| ladyconsumer |
Posted: May 08 '08, 12:20 pm |
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Reviews written: 632 Member since: Jul 11 '05
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: almarsezstuff I'm actually putting together a plan (i.e. writing ideas as I think of them) of how to communicate more formally on a regular basis with everyone here. Not just the frequency of the communications, but the content and delivery of each one as well.
...
I see no reason why we can't share the content of those discussions with everyone else after the M&G.
-Almar
That's great, Almar... Thanks!
Mona |
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| almarsezstuff |
Posted: May 08 '08, 12:27 pm |
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Reviews written: 3 Member since: Nov 05 '07
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Thanks for responding, Sue. My turn to answer! =)
Quote: millinocket Almar, I can't (obviously) speak for everyone, but that is exactly where I am. I would rather you told me one time that you met this week and talked about fixing the /review/ bug specifically than told me a thousand times that "things are being done" or "we're working hard". That makes it seem like we don't know or appreciate the work you're all doing, and we honestly do. It just helps to have the problems currently being addressed identified specifically by Eps staff.
Yes, if I'm understanding the projects engineering has on its plate, the /review/ bug and missing hits are up next. Again, I can't confirm the timing, but it is definitely sooner than later and as far I know, it won't take 5 months.
Quote: millinocket Does this effectively change the previous position that potentially plagiarized reviews be rated on merit and then reported to abuse? It doesn't matter to me either way (except when the accusations are wrong), but I'd like a little guidance on what you prefer - NH with sources or report to abuse without rating or rating on merit.
Since I'm rather new to the process, you bring up something I didn't think of (although it was probably hotly debated at one time or another). I think for clear-cut cases of plagiarism (where the author clearly cut and pasted someone else's work), I don't see why you shouldn't give it an NH with sources. I believe that's why the system was created with self-policing tools. But if you can't connect the dots easily and/or if you have any reasonable doubt, then send it over and we'll look at it as soon as possible. The last thing we want to do is falsely accuse anyone of stealing.
Quote: millinocket I know a lot of people don't like the 10 4 10/20 or see it as diluting the quality of the site. In Movies I've seen much more traffic and some great new writers. Some plagiarism, sure, but not more than I would expect with this kind of review volume. Honestly, I do think it's good for the site as long as the tech issues get fixed.
Thank you for your honest assessment there. If we feel the 10 for 10 is no longer contributing in a positive way to the site or the user experience overall, we have no reservations in stopping it. This is one of those things I'm monitoring closely.
-Almar |
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| brentp256 |
Posted: May 08 '08, 12:28 pm |
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Reviews written: 218 Member since: Jul 18 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Awesome! Thanks for stopping by and updating us! This is exactly what I'm talking about and what we need to see and hear: that you are listening and care.
If you are doing a state of the union at the meet and greets with numbers and fun stuff, why can't you also post those at the site for everyone else?
Thanks,
-Brent |
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| PattyTherre |
Posted: May 08 '08, 12:28 pm |
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Reviews written: 1425 Member since: Oct 09 '00
in Online Stores & Services, Outdoor Gear, Sporting Goods |
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
I don't think addressing important issues on these boards is enough.
If you look at who posts here, it seems that there is a core group of people and then some who come and go. I believe that all members should get an email or at least a post should be put up in the member center when the "state of the site" info comes out.
I read the boards every day but often miss things. I would rather there be a neutral place just for management to address the community and let us know what is happening, if anything.
This is not to say I don't love the message board communications because I do. But we have far more members that are in the dark because they either don't go to these boards or miss a post.
Making issues - and progress on those issues - easier to find would be a great help.
I won't even ask when beauty/wellness and outdoor/sports will be fixed, hits counted, reviews seen, MPA and MPR back, etc. I know it's being worked on. And I know no one can give me a timeline of when things will get better. But when something starts to happen, I sure want to know and would hate to miss a post about it.
Patty
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| Freak369 |
Posted: May 08 '08, 12:32 pm |
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Reviews written: 4525 Member since: Feb 05 '00
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RE: Is There Enough Communication Between Members & Management?
Quote: almarsezstuff
One of the great things about our community is that it's self policing. I've had the opportunity to look at some of the abuse items that are sent in. Not only do the numbers seem in line with what I've seen in the past (no more, no less basically), but by the time I actually investigate, you guys have already flagged it appropriately.
-Almar
Epinions needs to make it clear what they want - one view is don't rate it NH, submit a report and wait for something to happen. Then we are told "you have to tools to NH and block, use them".
This is why communication is really important. The five emails I got alone today from people that are sick of being kept in the dark were hard to read. There are no more live chats with Epinions staff, at least then anything that was asked was point blank but usually still swept under the rug. |
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