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Advice please?
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lotsofjoy Original Post: Mar 07 '06,  11:14 am (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  12:42 pm)           
Reviews written: 41
Member since: Aug 12 '05
Post: 48108
Advice please?

I'm starting to go through and rate a bunch of the reviews I missed rating during the write off and I've come across an issue...

I've noticed a few reviews of similar products (like different colors of the same products) that are almost word for word exactly the same. These are from people involved in the write off who write really great reviews and whom I honestly like. I really don't want to give anything less than a VH, because they are all very helpful. But they violate the duplicate post rule and therefore rightfully don't deserve it, right?

All of these reviews have already received many VH ratings from all kinds of people, including advisors and leads. So who am I to come in with my 38 reviews and 12 people on my WOT to be the only person out of 15 or more to rate NH?

So here I am, a lowly newbie.... wondering what is the right thing to do? Advise me oh venerated epinions gurus!

(and if you recognize yourself in this post... I BEG you to put me out of my misery and go change one of said duplicate reviews by the required 100 words!)

   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  11:18 am (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  11:22 am)           
Reviews written: 668
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48110
RE: Advice please?

Quote: lotsofjoy
These are from different people involved in the write off who write really great reviews and whom I honestly like.



Your wording is making me question what you're seeing...


The "duplicate post" ruling refers to reviews posted by the SAME person. It states that the two reviews must differ by at least 100 words, and if you're seeing examples where that rule is broken, then the reviews need to be rated accordingly.

If you're seeing duplicates by DIFFERENT people, that breaks the plagiarism rule, and is a far more serious offense, one which, if you're right, really needs to be reported.
   
lotsofjoy Posted: Mar 07 '06,  11:31 am           
Reviews written: 41
Member since: Aug 12 '05
Post: 48113
RE: Advice please?

Quote: ladyconsumer
Your wording is making me question what you're seeing...


The "duplicate post" ruling refers to reviews posted by the SAME person. It states that the two reviews must differ by at least 100 words, and if you're seeing examples where that rule is broken, then the reviews need to be rated accordingly.

If you're seeing duplicates by DIFFERENT people, that breaks the plagiarism rule, and is a far more serious offense, one which, if you're right, really needs to be reported.



Sorry.... reviews posted by the same person... I'll reword the original post. thanks!
   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  11:36 am           
Reviews written: 668
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48115
RE: Advice please?

Quote: lotsofjoy
Sorry.... reviews posted by the same person... I'll reword the original post. thanks!


ok - then I say the reviews have to be rated accordingly - one vh (or whatever it deserves) and the others nh, unfortunately. That's the way it works when rules are broken. Of course, I'd put a nice comment explaining why the rating, and the writer will probably realize his/her mistake, and udpate accordingly to fix the problem.

   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  11:41 am (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  11:57 am)           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48116
RE: Advice please?

In my opinion it is wrong since you said they are word for word the same. I mean it's possible that someone could write (legitimately) on a product in red and the same product in blue - it's possible they would have very similar wording. But if they are word for word it is blatantly copy and paste - not even an effort to write the second review. That is not good practice :(

**Update: I think there is nothing wrong with reviewing both products, but both reviews should be original - ie you should take the time to write each from scratch. This is why I don't write about two similar products back to back because it's hard to think of new words/phrases the second time. But if you are going to do it, at least write the whole review each time. Don't copy and paste :(

   
three_ster Posted: Mar 07 '06,  11:59 am           
Reviews written: 1699
Member since: Jun 26 '00
Post: 48118
RE: Advice please?

Quote: lotsofjoy
I'm starting to go through and rate a bunch of the reviews I missed rating during the write off and I've come across an issue...

I've noticed a few reviews of similar products (like different colors of the same products) that are word for word exactly the same. These are from people involved in the write off who write really great reviews and whom I honestly like. I really don't want to give anything less than a VH, because they are all very helpful. But they violate the duplicate post rule and therefore rightfully don't deserve it, right?

All of these reviews have already received many VH ratings from all kinds of people, including advisors and leads. So who am I to come in with my 38 reviews and 12 people on my WOT to be the only person out of 15 or more to rate NH?

So here I am, a lowly newbie.... wondering what is the right thing to do? Advise me oh venerated epinions gurus!

(and if you recognize yourself in this post... I BEG you to put me out of my misery and go change one of said duplicate reviews by the required 100 words!)



Well I guess there are a couple of things to consider here. You will have to choose as a rate if you think they really put effort into the reviews, or if it was just a copy and paste with a few word changes. Ask yourself "should they get paid two times the IS for changing a little bit of info.?" If the reviews are of similar products, and have many different things being said about them, then that is one thing. But it will be a judgement call here, as to whether you think that effort was put into the writing.

--Ryan (three_ster)
   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:02 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48119
RE: Advice please?

Quote: three_ster
Well I guess there are a couple of things to consider here. You will have to choose as a rate if you think they really put effort into the reviews, or if it was just a copy and paste with a few word changes. Ask yourself "should they get paid two times the IS for changing a little bit of info.?" If the reviews are of similar products, and have many different things being said about them, then that is one thing. But it will be a judgement call here, as to whether you think that effort was put into the writing.

--Ryan (three_ster)


Exactly. And, if you really think the person meant no harm - it might be nice to email them on the side before you rate or comment. This will give him/her the chance to update the review without causing a lot of negative ratings all at once. I would take this route as a nice gesture - if you think the person is trustworthy.
   
meagandowney Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:05 pm           
Reviews written: 358
Member since: Sep 11 '05
moderator in Books
Post: 48120
You could also email them

Chances are, the entries were read by Amy and Helen, and either were accepted as entries (or not) already.

W/O aside, though, you could go ahead and email them seperately with your comment (as opposed to having the comment public first) and rate NH on the duplicate (the one that was posted second) and see what kind of a response comes back from your email.

If there is no response after a day or two, I would probably leave the comment publicly and look at some of their other reviews because it probably isn't the first time they've done it.

There are lots of potential reasons why they did it and what their philosophy was, but they shouldn't have a problem explaining them to the membership.

   
lotsofjoy Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:40 pm (Updated: Mar 07 '06,  12:42 pm)           
Reviews written: 41
Member since: Aug 12 '05
Post: 48121
RE: Advice please?

Quote: three_ster
Well I guess there are a couple of things to consider here. You will have to choose as a rate if you think they really put effort into the reviews, or if it was just a copy and paste with a few word changes. Ask yourself "should they get paid two times the IS for changing a little bit of info.?" If the reviews are of similar products, and have many different things being said about them, then that is one thing. But it will be a judgement call here, as to whether you think that effort was put into the writing.

--Ryan (three_ster)


I went back and looked at them very closely and there are some differences. It might actually meet the 100 word difference. There are some slightly obvious changes, but it seems that a lot of it was just going through and changing, adding, or deleting some scattered sentences throughout the review.

Like I said, I think this person is an extremely good writer and the review is most definitely a very helpful one. But when looking at it in the light of what three_ster said, I'm not sure it would be right to earn double the IS for such completely similar reviews. I am probably going to go with my gut and rate the ones with the VH that they absolutely deserves and email about the others before doing anything.

I do think it's OK to use elements from other reviews you've written. But there should be a fair chunk of it that is different. Changing scattered sentences here and there doesn't seem to be quite enough, even if it does equal 100 words. But maybe that's just the teacher in me.

Thanks for the advice you guys.

   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:44 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48122
RE: Advice please?

Quote: lotsofjoy
Changing scattered sentences here and there doesn't seem to be quite enough, even if it does equal 100 words. But maybe that's just the teacher in me.


Teachers now a days have that software that will compare a paper (electronic) to all kinds of sources online as well as other students papers! Epinions should use software like that :)
   
drdevience Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:45 pm           
Reviews written: 647
Member since: Jun 09 '02
moderator in Movies, Video Games
Post: 48123
RE: You could also email them

Yeah. Well. Here's how I look at that kinda thang... and it likely doesn't mesh with the view of others, but oh well...

If a product is listed under multiple colors, well, that's just stupid. Nothing changes with each item except that color. Same quality, etc....

Tell me, which color will a consumer look up reviews on first?

No clue? Me either...

I consider the Listing to be duplicate, and personally see nothing wrong with covering the bases of the various colors... having said that, it is within site policy to do this as long as each review be changed by a mere 100 words....

On the other hand... to do that as contest entries is a bit smarmy. (you know, mainly cuz I didn't think of it first...)


SmallStuffDoc

   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:48 pm           
Reviews written: 668
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48125
RE: Advice please?

Quote: lotsofjoy
I went back and looked at them very closely and there are some differences. It might actually meet the 100 word difference. There are some slightly obvious changes, but it seems that a lot of it was just going through and changing, adding, or deleting some scattered sentences throughout the review.


I'm of a slightly different mind about this. If the reviews are "legal", and it sounds like they are, then I look at it from a consumer's point of view. Does the consumer who's looking for the green whatever get as helpful a review as the one looking for the yellow whatever? If so, then from the consumer point of view, both reviews are equally helpful. Yes, it might be boring for us members to read both, but a consumer will likely find one or the other, not both. So, I'd be inclined to rate them both independently of the other. Again, this assumes that they meet Epinions' rule of the 100 word difference.

   
phungus Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:50 pm           
Reviews written: 2320
Member since: Aug 31 '99
Post: 48126
RE: Advice please?

Lotsofjoy, please email me the links to the reviews in question so that I can give them a thorough going over.

   
drdevience Posted: Mar 07 '06,  12:59 pm           
Reviews written: 647
Member since: Jun 09 '02
moderator in Movies, Video Games
Post: 48132
RE: Advice please?

Quote: ladyconsumer
I look at it from a consumer's point of view. Does the consumer who's looking for the green whatever get as helpful a review as the one looking for the yellow whatever? If so, then from the consumer point of view, both reviews are equally helpful. Yes, it might be boring for us members to read both, but a consumer will likely find one or the other, not both. So, I'd be inclined to rate them both independently of the other. Again, this assumes that they meet Epinions' rule of the 100 word difference.

Well said.


AgreeableDoc
   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:01 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48133
RE: Advice please?

Quote: ladyconsumer
I'm of a slightly different mind about this. If the reviews are "legal", and it sounds like they are, then I look at it from a consumer's point of view. Does the consumer who's looking for the green whatever get as helpful a review as the one looking for the yellow whatever? If so, then from the consumer point of view, both reviews are equally helpful. Yes, it might be boring for us members to read both, but a consumer will likely find one or the other, not both. So, I'd be inclined to rate them both independently of the other. Again, this assumes that they meet Epinions' rule of the 100 word difference.


This is true - however I would like to think a member would actually rewrite the review for the yellow one, meaning they wouldn't just copy the review and repost it changing the word GREEN to YELLOW. I know there are rules set by Epinions, but I personally think it's more helpful to write each review from scratch - imagine if the consumer found both reviews (or if they were linked together) they would think what the heck? Like I said, I wouldn't downrate, but I would think to email the person. It just seems that copying and pasting is too easy - I just reviewed a green marker, and it's also listed in pink, red and blue - I think i'll copy and paste and change a few words here and there until they are 100 words different. It might be "legal" but just doesn't seem 100% right too me.
   
drdevience Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:09 pm           
Reviews written: 647
Member since: Jun 09 '02
moderator in Movies, Video Games
Post: 48138
RE: Advice please?

Quote: vivasuzi
This is true - however I would like to think a member would actually rewrite the review for the yellow one, meaning they wouldn't just copy the review and repost it changing the word GREEN to YELLOW. I know there are rules set by Epinions, but I personally think it's more helpful to write each review from scratch - imagine if the consumer found both reviews (or if they were linked together) they would think what the heck? Like I said, I wouldn't downrate, but I would think to email the person. It just seems that copying and pasting is too easy - I just reviewed a green marker, and it's also listed in pink, red and blue - I think i'll copy and paste and change a few words here and there until they are 100 words different. It might be "legal" but just doesn't seem 100% right too me.

Why?

It's the same product... in most instances. I do not believe that most consumers are going to care which color of a toaster is being reviewed, or whether or not the blue one and the red one are worded the same.

As long as the review is helpful unjder yellow, why is it not helpful under green?

Ok.. going to lie down for real now...


ThrobbingDoc
   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:17 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48140
RE: Advice please?

Quote: drdevience
Why?

It's the same product... in most instances. I do not believe that most consumers are going to care which color of a toaster is being reviewed, or whether or not the blue one and the red one are worded the same.

As long as the review is helpful unjder yellow, why is it not helpful under green?

Ok.. going to lie down for real now...
ThrobbingDoc


This is really a sticky subject. Although I agree the consumer might not care nor know the difference, I just feel it's sounds like a member using the system and it makes me wonder! I personally would not feel right about copying a review and "editing" it... I don't know why I'd just feel like i was doing something wrong!

I usually don't even notice if two reviews are similar since you'd have to read them back to back - and even then I might not notice! So I probably would have rated them both VH and not given it a second thought, but knowing that it's possible someone could copy/paste/edit a review in and have 2 posted in just a few minutes kind of bothers me.
   
ladyconsumer Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:18 pm           
Reviews written: 668
Member since: Jul 11 '05
Post: 48141
RE: Advice please?

It's the same conversation we had recently about reviewing perfume - in different sized bottles. Ask 10 Epinionaters and you'll get 10 different opinions about whether a reviewer SHOULD review the same product (in different size, different color, etc) and if they should, then should the reviews be completely different or is merely changing 100 words adequate. Same conversation here. Same opinion here. Mine's just different from yours, I guess.

   
lotsofjoy Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:19 pm           
Reviews written: 41
Member since: Aug 12 '05
Post: 48142
That's where my dilemma comes in.

Like I said... they are very helpful reviews and the only differnce between the listings is the color. Which is why I am reticent to just down rate it.

*sigh* I'm conflicted.

   
vivasuzi Posted: Mar 07 '06,  1:24 pm           
Reviews written: 32
Member since: Mar 06 '00
Post: 48144
RE: That's where my dilemma comes in.

Quote: lotsofjoy
Like I said... they are very helpful reviews and the only differnce between the listings is the color. Which is why I am reticent to just down rate it.

*sigh* I'm conflicted.


Well like I explained above, I focus on "would I do this" if the answer is NO then I would give the user a chance to explain or update. I most likely would not downrate - but I might not rate it at all.
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