| | | |
| Andyman |
Original Post: Aug 11 '06, 7:35 pm (Updated: Aug 11 '06, 7:38 pm) |
|
|
Reviews written: 134 Member since: Sep 29 '99
|
|
Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
As has been mentioned in the past, cross-posting reviews on Amazon and other shopping sites is considered a User Agreement violation, under this clause:
"We ask that you refer or provide links to the Shopping.com Network if you choose to republish your content elsewhere and that you do not publish the same items of content on both the Shopping.com Network and other product or price comparison sites."
Don't do it. If an Advisor is giving you a hard time for this practice, listen to them. I don't know if downrating reviews is the best way to enforce this, necessarily. But I encourage anyone who is aware of cross-posting to notify us immediately with the details, including the review URL and member name. We're happy to handle it.
Just to head off this question at the pass, yes, Amazon is considered a price comparison site. You can buy the same item from them or various store partners and marketplace affiliates right there on their site. Many of these store partners are the same ones in the Shopping.com/Epinions network, so Amazon does compete directly with us and they do qualify as a price comparison site. The same goes for the UK. Even though Epinions does not have a specific UK site, Epinions reviews are used on Shopping.com UK. Same goes for Australia.
We have not been ticketing for this in a hardcore fashion but we will follow up with you if cross posting is brought to our attention and ask you to remove your reviews from the other site. Just to be clear, this applies to other product or price comparison sites. Personal websites, blogs, etc, or anything without price comparison features is okay. If you have Amazon affiliate links on your blog, on the other hand...
Not only is it an issue of feeding our competitors, but it can play havoc with how certain search engines perceive our site, drawing an apparent connection between the 2 sites where none, in fact, exists. This can hurt our traffic, which in turn hurts IS for everyone. In the simplest terms, if you put your review on Amazon and on Epinions, then Google might identify the duplication and decide to send visitors to only one or the other. Would you rather they went to Amazon, where you earn no IS? Or to Epinions, where you can earn IS?
It hasn't come to this yet but if we have to resort to ticketing or even incarceration, we will. However I'd much rather work with people to explain the policy and resolve the conflict.
Another question I know will come up is about copyright. Of course you retain the copyright to your works and can publish them anywhere you please. It's just that if they violate the Epinions User Agreement, we are under no obligation to publish them here and may choose to pull them.
Thanks to the community members who've brought instances to our attention recently. |
| | | |
| sleeper54 |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 7:47 pm (Updated: Aug 11 '06, 7:48 pm) |
|
|
Reviews written: 508 Member since: Feb 24 '01
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: Andyman --snip--
Thanks to the community members who've brought instances to our attention recently.
The same question I asked in the other thread:
Playing the Devil's advocate warning...
I would really like to know that this is now official Epinions policy that will be enforced for all members across the site.
And not just a knee-jerk ( or perhaps a repeated shin-kicking by one Advisor ) reaction to one member's apparently persistent . . .'problem' with this writer and his reviews.
And yes, you all can read whatever you want into that thought and that question.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...tom...
.
|
| | | |
| meagandowney |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 7:52 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 359 Member since: Sep 11 '05
in Books |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: Andyman It hasn't come to this yet but if we have to resort to ticketing or even incarceration, we will. Hmmm . . .jail. Epinions. Jail. Epinions. Jail. Ummmmm . . .epinions!
Thanks for the official word on this. I certainly hope that some of the members who have been cross-posting on Amazon will choose to stay here.
With the cool kids at epinions. Who earn cold hard cash. |
| | | |
| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 8:09 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 709 Member since: Jul 11 '05
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: Andyman As has been mentioned in the past, cross-posting reviews on Amazon and other shopping sites is considered a User Agreement violation, under this clause:
"We ask that you refer or provide links to the Shopping.com Network if you choose to republish your content elsewhere and that you do not publish the same items of content on both the Shopping.com Network and other product or price comparison sites."
To be honest, I always thought it was an "informal request", not an absolute rule. NOT THAT I'VE DONE IT - but still, why not change the wording from "we ask that you..." to something that's a whole lot clearer. Just so there's less room for misunderstanding.
Mona |
| | | |
| popsrocks |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 9:00 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 2261 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: ladyconsumer To be honest, I always thought it was an "informal request", not an absolute rule. NOT THAT I'VE DONE IT - but still, why not change the wording from "we ask that you..." to something that's a whole lot clearer. Just so there's less room for misunderstanding.
Mona
I believe many took it as an informal request. The wording wasn't direct enough.
I'll follow up by saying Andy's words here, "Don't do it." sends a very clear message.
Phil |
| | | |
| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 9:07 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 709 Member since: Jul 11 '05
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: popsrocks I believe many took it as an informal request. The wording wasn't direct enough.
I'll follow up by saying Andy's words here, "Don't do it." sends a very clear message.
Phil
Yes. To the small percentage of members who happen to see it here. This is going to be one of those things that will keep popping up, as long as the written word is vague. An admonition in a message board is not really the best, most efficient way to get the word out!
|
| | | |
| sleeper54 |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 9:28 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 508 Member since: Feb 24 '01
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: popsrocks I believe many took it as an informal request. The wording wasn't direct enough.
I'll follow up by saying Andy's words here, "Don't do it." sends a very clear message.
Phil
On this date, at this place . . .his words do indeed speak volumes.
Now that same message needs to be communicated clearly and strongly in the User Agreement that all members must agree to follow. As ladyconsumer suggests.
Which I am sure they will do.
...tom...
. |
| | | |
| roheblius |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 10:53 pm (Updated: Aug 11 '06, 11:07 pm) |
|
|
Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: sleeper54 On this date, at this place . . .his words do indeed speak volumes.
Now that same message needs to be communicated clearly and strongly in the User Agreement that all members must agree to follow. As ladyconsumer suggests.
Which I am sure they will do.
...tom...
.
That agreement says, "We ask that you refer or provide links to the Shopping.com Network if you choose to republish your content elsewhere and that you do not publish the same items of content on both the Shopping.com Network and other product or price comparison sites."
Are you saying that portion of the UA needs to be tailored? |
| | | |
| roheblius |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 10:58 pm |
|
|
Reviews written: 602 Member since: Dec 13 '99
in Music |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: sleeper54 The same question I asked in the other thread:
Playing the Devil's advocate warning...
I would really like to know that this is now official Epinions policy that will be enforced for all members across the site.
And not just a knee-jerk ( or perhaps a repeated shin-kicking by one Advisor ) reaction to one member's apparently persistent . . .'problem' with this writer and his reviews.
And yes, you all can read whatever you want into that thought and that question.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...tom...
.
We don't have a team of Epinions police dogs to sniff out abuse. We rely on the members to report abuse and then we look at it on a case by case basis. We are not going to take a different approach with cross posting. If members report what they deem site violations, we will look into the reports. |
| | | |
| popsrocks |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 11:10 pm (Updated: Aug 11 '06, 11:51 pm) |
|
|
Reviews written: 2261 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: sleeper54 On this date, at this place . . .his words do indeed speak volumes.
Now that same message needs to be communicated clearly and strongly in the User Agreement that all members must agree to follow. As ladyconsumer suggests.
Which I am sure they will do.
...tom...
.
Hey Mona and Tom,
I certainly do not disagree that the user agreement would better serve the community if it gave a firm message in the first place. Tom you said, "Which I'm sure they will do". That remains to be seen.
I do see that the words in the agreemnet do state, "We can amend this Agreement either by emailing you about the amended terms, which take effect when we send you the email, or by posting the amended terms on the Shopping.com Network, which take effect when we post them."
It seems to me that some may be receiving their notice of the updated and firm, "Don't do it", via Email.
Andy has given some solid reasons for making the seeming request of "not cross posting", into more of a direct order. The way I read those reasons, IS and ultimately the life of the Company as it stands is affected by the cross posting.
I believe that most people should understand the "business" end of the directive and cease cross posting, others still may continue to feel they have the right to do what they like with their personal intellectual property rights of reviews.
Shopping.com has the right to protect its interests too. I do get concerned though when I read that a directive will be handled on a "case to case basis". Though innocently said, that can sound unsettling.
As Tom suggests, and I say, "This matter, to be fair and equitable to all, needs to be upheld in a uniform manner with no regard to length of service, quality or quantity of reviews, hats held or perceived status, showing no favoritism or aversion to anyone in any way."
I understand we have to show a certain amount of trust in the manner in which each case is exposed and handled. Having read Andy's uncompromised communication in a great variety of matters to date, I feel I can trust it will be done proper manner.
Phil
|
| | | |
| popsrocks |
Posted: Aug 11 '06, 11:19 pm (Updated: Aug 11 '06, 11:20 pm) |
|
|
Reviews written: 2261 Member since: Aug 25 '02
in Gourmet, Restaurants |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: roheblius That agreement says, "We ask that you refer or provide links to the Shopping.com Network if you choose to republish your content elsewhere and that you do not publish the same items of content on both the Shopping.com Network and other product or price comparison sites."
Are you saying that portion of the UA needs to be tailored?
Hey GG,
I'm jumping in with my thoughts.
The phrase "We ask", are the words that can be read with different meaning. They can be taken as words of authority stating an order, while others have and do take those two words as a suggestion.
Maybe those words do need to be changed.
Phil |
| | | |
| Freak369 |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 2:03 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 4776 Member since: Feb 05 '00
|
|
Stirring The Pot A Little More
So, I have to ask this question. What about reviews that are already posted at Amazon [books, music, movies etc] that subsequently get posted at Epinions. When you see someone post 100 reviews in a week [the pot calling the kettle black here] and you Google one and it goes to a reviewer at Amazon or another site ... how is that going to be addressed? That's something that needs to be addressed because I do recall at one point in time someone saying that it is allowed as long as they saying something to the effect of "also posted at [name of site". How can you really be sure that this is the same person? Anyone can go to Amazon and look at the reviews and pick a name off the list, create the same name at Epinions and post hundreds of reviews and make money from them. How long does it take to cut and paste a review - maybe 30 seconds?
While that might sound silly to most people, if someone stands to make a large chunk of money from it for an investment of an hours time ... I think that the rules need to be crystal clear. I might sound like a complete hypocrite when I mention people that post a lot of reviews at once [ones that were previously posted at other site], the reviews that I write aren't posted anywhere else. If this is going to be something that is enforced then I honestly think that this side of things needs to be added to it. |
| | | |
| drdevience |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 5:19 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 647 Member since: Jun 09 '02
in Movies, Video Games |
|
RE: Stirring The Pot A Little More
I have no clue if any of my few cross-post were at what Eps considers comparison sites or not... and I am not going to rack my brain trying to even recall where they are as it has been over a year since I did it...
But I am telling you right here and now that I am not going to go hunt them down and remove them, so if you plan to backtrack and inforce an informal request retroactively, then you might as well tell me to go on and cash out and kill my account now.
Doc |
| | | |
| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 7:00 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 709 Member since: Jul 11 '05
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: roheblius That agreement says, "We ask that you refer or provide links to the Shopping.com Network if you choose to republish your content elsewhere and that you do not publish the same items of content on both the Shopping.com Network and other product or price comparison sites."
Are you saying that portion of the UA needs to be tailored?
In my opinion, Yes. "We ask" sounds to me like an informal request, not a rule. When we "sign" the user agreement, we agree to abide by the rules therein. When a statement starts with "We ask..." it's not really something we can sign to abide by. Think about it..
"I agree to abide by 'we ask...' " It just makes no sense. If you want it to be a rule, understood by all, then phrase it as "Don't..." or "You are forbidden to...". THAT's something that's clear, that makes sense for us to abide by.
Further, since it was mentioned...
"We can amend this Agreement either by emailing you about the amended terms, which take effect when we send you the email, or by posting the amended terms on the Shopping.com Network, which take effect when we post them."
I always took that to mean that changes could be communicated by emailing the entire community not on a case-by-case basis, as seems to be happening here. OR, that the changes would be posted in a new user agreement not in a message board where only a handful would see them.
Mona
|
| | | |
| kristinafh |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 7:09 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 1344 Member since: Dec 17 '99
|
|
In Summary
1) We ask - too "informal", flexible, vague. YOU MUST NOT is pretty clear.
2) Not hunting mine down either but will refrain from future cross-posting.
3) If a handfull of members have been picked on/ticketed based upon this informal wording clause, epinions owes them an apology.
|
| | | |
| kristinafh |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 7:11 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 1344 Member since: Dec 17 '99
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: Andyman As has been mentioned in the past, cross-posting reviews on Amazon and other shopping sites is considered a User Agreement violation, under this clause:
Andy, granted, I disappeared for a year + but in the chats and postings on the member center - I never saw anything that "mentioned" that this particular user agreement term was a VIOLATION.
|
| | | |
| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 7:27 am (Updated: Aug 12 '06, 7:29 am) |
|
|
Reviews written: 709 Member since: Jul 11 '05
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: Andyman It hasn't come to this yet but if we have to resort to ticketing or even incarceration, we will. However I'd much rather work with people to explain the policy and resolve the conflict.
Incarceration???
Now we can go to jail for this??? For "violating" a user agreement which members seem to agree is too vaguely worded in the first place?
How come you don't threaten incarceration when someone blantantly plagiarizes (an act that is truly illegal), but you threaten jail time if someone posts their own work elsewhere?? Sounds a bit strange, to me. Threaten to ticket? Sure. Threaten to close their account? If you must. But threaten to place in jail?? I think that's a bit over-the-top.
Note: To clarify, I'm not at all saying I want people to cross-post or divert revenue away from Epinions at all. I'm merely questioning the wording in the user agreement, and the extremely harsh wording in Andy's post. |
| | | |
| drdevience |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 7:44 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 647 Member since: Jun 09 '02
in Movies, Video Games |
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: ladyconsumer Incarceration???
Now we can go to jail for this??? For "violating" a user agreement which members seem to agree is too vaguely worded in the first place?
How come you don't threaten incarceration when someone blantantly plagiarizes (an act that is truly illegal), but you threaten jail time if someone posts their own work elsewhere?? Sounds a bit strange, to me. Threaten to ticket? Sure. Threaten to close their account? If you must. But threaten to place in jail?? I think that's a bit over-the-top.
Note: To clarify, I'm not at all saying I want people to cross-post or divert revenue away from Epinions at all. I'm merely questioning the wording in the user agreement, and the extremely harsh wording in Andy's post.
I do not believe that the current Eps regime fully understands just how many of their core writers began by cross-posting thier reviews from Amazon...
This is a hornets nest. Ban it going forward if you must, but you are fixing to alienate a whooooole lot of the core membership with this as it currently stands.
Doc
|
| | | |
| trailhound |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 7:54 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 674 Member since: May 21 '04
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: popsrocks Andy has given some solid reasons for making the seeming request of "not cross posting", into more of a direct order. Phil
Is cross-posting considered word-for-word duplication or anything written by the user? I posted some reviews on other sites years ago, but they had far less detail than anything here. -Dave
|
| | | |
| ladyconsumer |
Posted: Aug 12 '06, 8:04 am |
|
|
Reviews written: 709 Member since: Jul 11 '05
|
|
RE: Cross-posting your reviews onto other sites, including Amazon
Quote: trailhound Is cross-posting considered word-for-word duplication or anything written by the user? I posted some reviews on other sites years ago, but they had far less detail than anything here. -Dave
It's another case of interpretation. The policy states
"...that you do not publish the same items of content on both..." (bolding mine)
which, to me, means "exactly the same, word-for-word, duplicate" but I'm sure that's not what they intended it to mean. However, again, vagueness will lead to misunderstanding, and will be impossible to prove in a court of law, should it get there. |