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| hyundai_fan |
Original Post: May 06 '05, 6:25 pm |
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Reviews written: 107 Member since: Jun 01 '02
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Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
What is your opinion on DRL's (Daytime Running Lights?) Do you have them on your car, and if so, what do you like or dislike about them?
On our Camry we have DRLs, and they drive me nuts during sunsets. When I'm going down the road all of a sudden my "real" headlights turn on, then a little ways more they shut off because I hit a "bright spot" and then they turn on again until darkness falls. There's no problem with it, it's just one of those quirks DRLs have with the sensors mounted on the dashboard.
A website called Lights Out absolutely hates them, but they do go a little overboard with the reasons why. In fact, their bias is almost unhealthy. DRLs are just something they have to deal with if they hate them so much.
Another thing that bothers me are those who think that if they don't have DRLs, they must turn on their lights and switch them to high beams. I'm taught to turn on the headlights at all times, so that doesn't bother me, but why high beams?
Overall though, my opinions are purely mixed. On one hand I think DRLs are under-appreciated due to their original purpose but yet they are a hassle to deal with when you don't want them on. Again, what's your opinion on DRLs?
~Scott |
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| tch7 |
Posted: May 06 '05, 8:45 pm (Updated: May 06 '05, 8:52 pm) |
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Reviews written: 112 Member since: Jan 19 '03
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
Daytime running lights are wonderful. I've never been able to understand why some people hate them so much.
Having something that distinguishes a running/moving car from a parked car makes a surprising difference with safety. I'm a fairly aware driver, but the number of times I've not noticed cars just because they didn't have any sort of lights on is rather high. Never any remotely close calls, but usually these "where the hell did he come from" reactions.
The only slight drawback I see is that they can really make the front of a vehicle look ugly. However, it's perfectly possible to institute DRLs in a design with having them barely noticeable. As for glare like that website you posted talks about, well I've never experienced problems with glare during the daytime. Only time lights bug me is when people have their high-beams on for no reason, or their headlights are pointed in the wrong direction so that they blind you as you drive toward them. |
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| drive571 |
Posted: May 06 '05, 8:55 pm (Updated: May 06 '05, 9:02 pm) |
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Reviews written: 138 Member since: Jan 08 '04
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
I've never understood what the big deal was with DRLs, either. If cars' headlights aren't blinding at night, then how can the "glare" be so unbearable during the day, when one's eyes are used to the brighter ambient light? Anyway, Car & Driver used to make a big stink about them, too. Now they've moved on to bashing hybrid cars...
I've actually come to appreciate DRLs because they compensate for the people who don't turn their lights on when they should--on two-lane highways, in rainy or foggy weather, or at dusk, for example.
I will admit, though, that I don't have any of the vision problems that may affect DRL opponents. If I had astigmatism and couldn't drive at night, DRLs might make it tough for me to drive in daylight, too. Maybe. Then again, if it was that bad, I'd also be completely incapacitated by chrome trim and reverse lights, and I don't see any websites advocating the extermination of them.
-PJ |
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| scmrak |
Posted: May 09 '05, 7:55 am |
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Reviews written: 1359 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
Quote: drive571 I've actually come to appreciate DRLs because they compensate for the people who don't turn their lights on when they should--on two-lane highways, in rainy or foggy weather, or at dusk, for example. There's a traffic ordinance here in Illinois that if your wipers are on, your headlights must also be on - not that it makes any difference to some of the locals.
Never had a vehicle with DRLs, but I've driven a few rentals with 'em. I like 'em, because anything that helps another driver see me on the road is A-OK in my book. Considering that some morons can't seem to see my 17-foot long 6-foot high fire-engine red Tacoma, every little bit helps.
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rex |
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| hyundai_fan |
Posted: May 09 '05, 9:45 am |
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Reviews written: 107 Member since: Jun 01 '02
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
Quote: scmrak There's a traffic ordinance here in Illinois that if your wipers are on, your headlights must also be on - not that it makes any difference to some of the locals.
Couldn't car companies design a system where the headlights turn on when you turn on your wipers (not DRLs, but all the exterior lights--taillights, parking lamps, dash lights etc.)? DRLs were made for countries with lighting deficiencies, so why not use my idea for reasons of complying with the law?
~Scott |
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| scmrak |
Posted: May 09 '05, 10:24 am |
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Reviews written: 1359 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
Quote: hyundai_fan Couldn't car companies design a system where the headlights turn on when you turn on your wipers... I think some MFRs may offer this as an option. Can't see it becoming standard for the industry unless similar laws are adopted by one or more of the larger-population states.
-30-
rex
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| pvreditor |
Posted: May 10 '05, 9:45 pm |
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Reviews written: 404 Member since: May 31 '02
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
I have no problem with DRLs either. Virginia also has a regulation about switching on the headlights if its raining, and I think New York has a similar regulation.
I find that different car companies implement DRLs differently. The Ford Focus I'm driving this week (don't know the year yet) has the lights come on slightly dimmed anytime the ignition is switched on. My 2003 Subaru switches on the DRLs only when the parking brake is released. That seems more logical to me but the effect is pretty much the same.
--Bob |
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| HollyJahangiri |
Posted: May 17 '05, 5:59 am |
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Reviews written: 16 Member since: Jun 12 '00
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Love 'em
I had them on my 2000 Pontiac Montana. I just bought the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, and find that they only come on the Canadian models. Yikes! I have to remember to turn on my headlights now?? I've given my daughter the Montana, so I hope she won't grow up thinking all cars' headlights turn on automatically, or she'll be in for a rude awakening. (Kind of like when they installed self-flushing toilets at the daycare center...)
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| jumperless |
Posted: May 20 '05, 7:56 pm |
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Reviews written: 125 Member since: Jul 30 '01
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
I like them, my car does not have them but I always turn the headlights on. It's a law in Florida as well that headlights must be on in the rain. But there are plenty who do not realize this.
I notice on some cars, like older Saturns, the DRLs are separate, brighter lights that are too bright for night use. Our old 98 SC2 DRLs were blinding at night until the regular headlights were turned on and the DRLs switched off. |
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| pvreditor |
Posted: May 21 '05, 8:54 am (Updated: May 21 '05, 3:01 pm) |
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Reviews written: 404 Member since: May 31 '02
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RE: Your Opinion On Daytime Running Lights
Quote: jumperless I like them, my car does not have them but I always turn the headlights on. It's a law in Florida as well that headlights must be on in the rain. But there are plenty who do not realize this.
We have the same law here in Virginia and it was also on the books when I lived in New York. I hate to run the headlights on the Porsche unless I have to (they are pop-ups that cost something like $250 to replace), so I switch on the driving lights and the fog lights when it rains. This gives me bright, easily visible lights in front of my car.
Don't know how the law would rule on that; probably "headlights" means "headlights" and I could get a ticket.
--Bob |
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| ed45626 |
Posted: Oct 21 '05, 12:14 pm |
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Reviews written: 1 Member since: Oct 21 '05
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Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
I haven't been able to find, and maybe someone can point them out, studies that show daytime running lights prevent accidents.
I understand their use in far northern latitudes where there is limited daylight -- but what about the US?
It seems most information that I hear is anecdotal -- not to discount that, but someone must have done more extensive studies.
I'm also curious if anyone has calculated the cost to put DRL's on all cars, the legislative costs, etc. involved. An interesting link on 'How Stuff Works' does look at the amount of gas consumed if all cars had DRL's: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question424.htm
Just some thoughts -- not for or against. |
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| pvreditor |
Posted: Oct 21 '05, 12:52 pm (Updated: Oct 21 '05, 2:32 pm) |
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
Quote: ed45626 I haven't been able to find, and maybe someone can point them out, studies that show daytime running lights prevent accidents.
The following Web page has seven reports cited near the bottom of the page:
www.sav-a-life.com/Drl_intro.htm
There's no question that burning your headlights uses gasoline and slightly reduces gas mileage. It also causes the lights to fail more often, increasing the risk that a headlight will be burned out when you need it most. I guess the question is whether the reduced chance of an accident is worth the expense of running your headlights continuously. From what I saw on the above Web site -- which is strongly in favor of daytime running lights -- the answer is yes.
--Bob |
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| tch7 |
Posted: Oct 21 '05, 8:23 pm |
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Reviews written: 112 Member since: Jan 19 '03
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
I noticed in Alaska that few vehicles had DRLs, and I'm far more convinced now that they do increase safety. The number of people that drove in crappy weather without any lights on (and usually in grey or white vehicles...) was astounding. They were nowhere near as visible as a vehicle with some sort of lights on, and I'm amazed you don't get.
Having lights on when wipers are on isn't good enough, as it's when you're driving through fog that the lights become more important than ever. |
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| windmill007 |
Posted: Oct 24 '05, 8:32 am (Updated: Oct 24 '05, 8:35 am) |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 24 '05
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Should be an option
Well I for one don't like being forced to run those daylights if I don't want them. I think they make your car look uglier and not cool. I think just running the parking lights should be enouf'. I think some chevys do this but they have beaming parking lights instead which look ugly too. I like my 99 Honda Accord. I leave my parking lights on all the time..unless its night and I need headlights...and they turn off automatically when I get out of my car. When I unlock my doors with the remote either my headlights or my parking lights turn on depending on what I had them set to last. Yes I have the option to run no lights if I wish and I feel every vehicle should have that option. I for one am against those beaming driving lights. Don't really think they help in most situations. Might make it worse with all those headlights beaming you all the time. |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 25 '05, 8:24 am (Updated: Oct 25 '05, 8:24 am) |
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Reviews written: 1359 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
Quote: pvreditor There's no question that burning your headlights uses gasoline and slightly reduces gas mileage. The only place I've seen this assertion is on that IHateDRLs site (but, admittedly, I haven't looked for it much). Should that statement say "very slightly"? I can't imagine that the additional amount of friction caused by running the alternator while the lights are on - assuming that this is where the reduction comes from instead of, say, heating the air in front of the car and making it stickier - amounts to a heck of a lot. Probably a lot less than the idiotic habit of playing vulture so one can get a parking space in the front row at the mall... Anyway, what's the quantitative story as opposed to the qualitative story?
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rex
PS - While on the topic, I'm pretty sure that closing every McDonalds, Taco Bell, Wendy's, Jack-in-the-Box, etc. drivethrough for a month or so would save a heck of a lot more fuel than doing away with DRLs for the next oh, hundred years...
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| pvreditor |
Posted: Oct 25 '05, 10:23 am |
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Reviews written: 404 Member since: May 31 '02
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
Quote: scmrak The only place I've seen this assertion is on that IHateDRLs site (but, admittedly, I haven't looked for it much). Should that statement say "very slightly"? I can't imagine that the additional amount of friction caused by running the alternator while the lights are on - assuming that this is where the reduction comes from instead of, say, heating the air in front of the car and making it stickier - amounts to a heck of a lot. Probably a lot less than the idiotic habit of playing vulture so one can get a parking space in the front row at the mall... Anyway, what's the quantitative story as opposed to the qualitative story?
PS - While on the topic, I'm pretty sure that closing every McDonalds, Taco Bell, Wendy's, Jack-in-the-Box, etc. drivethrough for a month or so would save a heck of a lot more fuel than doing away with DRLs for the next oh, hundred years...
You're no doubt right about the effect of eliminating drive-thru's at fast-food joints.
My assertion that running the lights uses a slight amount of gasoline is based simply on the energy the alternator draws from the engine when the lights are being powered. The energy to power the lights has to come from somewhere and it can only come from the engine's energy source: gasoline. I've actually had a couple of cars in which the idle speed was affected by switching on the lights. I agree that it's a small -- even very small -- consumer of gasoline but lights do use some. You should know that there is no thermodynamic free lunch.
--Bob
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 25 '05, 12:35 pm (Updated: Oct 25 '05, 12:42 pm) |
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Reviews written: 1359 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
Quote: pvreditor My assertion that running the lights uses a slight amount of gasoline is based simply on the energy the alternator draws from the engine when the lights are being powered. But isn't the alternator in the circuit whether the lights are on or not? Excess output from the alternator - that not needed to recharge the battery or run the electrical system - is, I suppose, merely dissipated as heat?
Soooo.... let's see: don't know what the wattage of a pair of headlights is, but let's just arbitrarily say that they draw a total of 500 watts. A gallon of gasoline is approximately 124000 BTU and a Kilowatt hour is 3412 BTU. So one gallon of gasoline yields 36.3 KWH, or 72.6 hours of burning your headlights.
Let's do another calculation: if you drive 60 mph for 72.6 hours, you'll have traveled 4356 miles. If your car gets 30 MPG with the lights off, that's a fuel consumption of 145.2 gallons compared to 146.2 gallons with them on. The net reduction in fuel economy is from 30.000 to 29.795, a percentage reduction of 0.007.
Yep, seems pretty insignificant to me.
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rex
(Who notes that some guy who drives a Corvette claims that the use of the headlights [in ANY car] imposes a load of 7.9 horsepower on the engine. Personally, I think he's full of horsefeathers, because my 35-hp Volkswagen ran almost exactly the same with the lights on as with them off - no 22% reduction in [what passed for] power. I suspect he's made an error in his calculations)
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| pvreditor |
Posted: Oct 25 '05, 12:45 pm (Updated: Oct 25 '05, 12:46 pm) |
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
Quote: scmrak But isn't the alternator in the circuit whether the lights are on or not?
The alternator is being spun all the time that the engine turns. However, an electric load on the alternator will in turn load down the engine. If you spin a gererator/alternator by hand, it will spin freely if there is no electrical load. As soon as you supply a load, the rotor of the alternator will bog down in proportion to that load.
Remember those old bicycle generators that were spun by the side of the bike's tire? If you have the chance to try one of those, try it with the light on and off... you'll quickly see the difference.
Your analysis doesn't take into account the losses sustained in converting the potential energy in gasoline into rotational energy, then converting it again to electricity -- not to mention resistance losses in the car's wires and switches. However, I'm willing to state that the gasoline used by running your headlights is slight. (In fact, I think I already did state that.) However, it is measurable.
--Bob |
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| pvreditor |
Posted: Oct 25 '05, 1:11 pm |
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
Quote: scmrak But isn't the alternator in the circuit whether the lights are on or not? Excess output from the alternator - that not needed to recharge the battery or run the electrical system - is, I suppose, merely dissipated as heat?
I missed this the first time.
The alternator only makes electricity as it is needed. It is not a steady-state draw on the engine. If there is no demand for electricity, the alternator will spin nearly freely. Keeping the battery topped up takes only a few milliamps but the headlights probably draw 10 Amps or so; more current will flow if the tail lights and associated lights are on.
I learned that 1 hp = 746 Watts. Switching on the lights in the car will probably draw around 150 to 200 Watts, maybe 1/4 hp. It's not a lot but it is noticable at idle speed on many engines. Running rear window defrosters, wipers, fans and even stereos can get this engine demand to 1 hp.
There is no resistor in a car that is burning off excess power. If there was, it would have to dissipate 1,000 Watts, would be the size of a couple of shoe boxes and would weigh 40 pounds. It would need a lot of air flow, too, unless you wanted to use it for a kiln.
--Bob |
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| mkaresh |
Posted: Oct 25 '05, 1:34 pm |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Oct 16 '99
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RE: Are there definitive studies on effectiveness?
An earlire poster likely long gone mentioned that without DRLs she'll actually have to turn on her lights. I'm hoping she realizes that the DRLs are only up front. The tail lights must still be turned on.
When GM first introduced DRLs on all its cars they used the headlights. Then everyone complained so for many cars they started using the front parking lights instead. |