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| dolphinboy |
Original Post: Sep 28 '08, 6:48 pm |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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Cretaceous Dawn
I am reading Cretaceous Dawn by Graziani and Graziani. An interesting tale, blending physics, time travel, geology, and paleontology. |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Sep 30 '08, 9:48 am |
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Reviews written: 1379 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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I'm always leery...
of (science) fiction with a "geological" basis, since the science is so often badly done. I've often wondered, do scientists in other fields find the same to be true of their own bailiwicks?
Seems to me that the physics hard scifi is often written by physicists, but every Tom, Dick, and Harriet thinks s/he knows enough about geology to propound on it. One need only look at the claims that increased offshore drilling can have a near-term effect on gasoline prices to see how stupid that belief is...
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rex |
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| dolphinboy |
Posted: Oct 01 '08, 6:35 am |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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RE: I'm always leery...
Of the scientific fields, in this book, paleontology is prominent, followed by physics, and geology a distant third. There is not enough geology expounded for it to look weak or strong. |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 01 '08, 7:36 am |
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Reviews written: 1379 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: I'm always leery...
Quote: dolphinboy Of the scientific fields, in this book, paleontology is prominent, followed by physics, and geology a distant third. Errrrmmmm.... paleontology is a branch of geology, Ross on "Friends" notwithstanding... And, of course, I'd be willing to bet that there's not a single mention of nummulites, gastropods, or ammonites (zone fossils of worldwide significance in the Cretaceous) - just those stupid dinosaurs that everyone seems to believe died and turned into oil...
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rex |
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| dolphinboy |
Posted: Oct 01 '08, 11:16 am |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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RE: I'm always leery...
Quote: scmrak Errrrmmmm.... paleontology is a branch of geology, Ross on "Friends" notwithstanding... And, of course, I'd be willing to bet that there's not a single mention of nummulites, gastropods, or ammonites (zone fossils of worldwide significance in the Cretaceous) - just those stupid dinosaurs that everyone seems to believe died and turned into oil...
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rex
You would lose that bet. No mention of nummulites, but gastropods, ammonites, early mammals, and beetles aplenty, plus the fading dinosaurs. Deinosuchus, not a typical dino-star, has a big role, at one point. T-rex and dromeosaurs do have strong roles. We get descriptions of the early, still uplifting Rockies, too, and the great inland sea and rivers across South Dakato and Montana. The authors are scientific researchers, and tried to do their homework. |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 02 '08, 7:13 am (Updated: Oct 02 '08, 7:14 am) |
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Reviews written: 1379 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: I'm always leery...
Quote: dolphinboy You would lose that bet. No mention of nummulites, but gastropods, ammonites, early mammals, and beetles aplenty, plus the fading dinosaurs. Deinosuchus, not a typical dino-star, has a big role, at one point. T-rex and dromeosaurs do have strong roles. We get descriptions of the early, still uplifting Rockies, too, and the great inland sea and rivers across South Dakato and Montana. The authors are scientific researchers, and tried to do their homework. Must not have done all their research, since most Rocky Mountain uplifts along the (modern) western boundary of the Inland Sea are reactivated Permo-Pennsylvanian structures of the Ancestral Rockies (coeval with the Ouachita Mts); making them about half again as old at the dawn of Laramide orogenesis as the current version of the Rockies is today. In other words, about as high during the Cretaceous as the Appalachians are now.
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rex (who couldn't identify a vertebrate fossil if one bit him - they're, frankly, a tiny part of geology - but can still pick out Phacops rana 38 years after taking Intro to Paleontology) |
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| dolphinboy |
Posted: Oct 02 '08, 3:46 pm |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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RE: I'm always leery...
The proto-Rockies are described as Appalachian-like, without any of today's soaring craginess. |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 02 '08, 5:33 pm (Updated: Oct 03 '08, 9:44 am) |
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RE: I'm always leery...
Quote: dolphinboy The proto-Rockies are described as Appalachian-like, without any of today's soaring craginess. Quote: scmrak In other words, about as high during the Cretaceous as the Appalachians are now. Is there an echo in here?
ETA "cragginess" is usually more a function of climate than age. A tropical/subtropical climate, as occurred over most of of North America in the Mesozoic, increases both mechanical and chemical weathering of rocks. The modern-day Rockies are, for the most part, a high desert. This both decreases vegetative cover (Appalachian valleys are often deceptively steep because hillside profiles are "softened" by all the trees) while drastically slowing creation of soil. By comparison, consider the mountainous terrain of Southeast Asia or Central America, where very young (geologically speaking, of course) mountain chains are often high, rounded humps swathed in jungle.
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| pipian |
Posted: Oct 11 '08, 11:05 am |
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Reviews written: 0 Member since: Oct 11 '08
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RE: I'm always leery...
Hello, I just came across this discussion. I'm involved with the publisher of "Cretaceous Dawn." I love this discussion, and the obvious knowledge of those posting. I can definitely appreciate the leeryness, too. So many books are portrayed as being "good science" and are decidedly not. "Cretaceous Dawn," I'm happy to say, is an exception; the authors are not only both novelists, but are both scientists/professors. One is an oceanographer, and although the little bit of geology is not emphasized in the book, it does come out of the author's own expertise. The same is true for the early mammalian evolution, in which the other author is expert. The paleontology (which is not geology) can also be trusted; it was, additionally, reviewed by a vert. paleontology professor who does her research in the Hell Creek fossil bed (around which the book is based), and the curator at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science, a Cretaceous plant expert. Believe me, all this was vetted before the book could be portrayed as accurate science. There's a good review, by the way, in Natural History's July/August issue.
Despite all that: keep the skepticism for such books! Our society is increasingly mixing up fiction and reality, with no vetting of the real expertise of authority figures. |
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| dolphinboy |
Posted: Oct 11 '08, 4:36 pm |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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My review
is now posted on Epinions. |
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| panguitch |
Posted: Oct 13 '08, 9:12 am |
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Reviews written: 285 Member since: Jul 30 '02
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RE: I'm always leery...
Quote: scmrak just those stupid dinosaurs that everyone seems to believe died and turned into oil...
Are you dissing dinos? Dude, what kind of misanthrope are you? You can't be human and not love dinos. They're one of the few great cautionary myths we have left--and not just because they foreshadow the ironic end of our oil-hungry civilization when alien colonists will tap our cemeteries for human sludge to power their rocket ships.
Dino cautionary myths:
The world was once ruled by mighty creatures. Nothing could contest their power. Then the planet became overpopulated, they ate everything in sight, the bubble burst and they all starved. Or maybe the climate changed, probably because they ate too many trees, and they all died of nasty sunburns. Or maybe a brilliant Triceratops invented a plague that he thought would kill all the T-Rexes and keep his people safe forever, but it got out of control and turned all the other triceratops into brain-eating zombies. Or a giant space rock slammed into the earth causing a nuclear holocaust-like effect, killing off all the dinos.
One of the above. It doesn't matter. Point is, we humans had better be careful or our hubris will be humbled forcefully by the karmic gods of Olympus.
As for dinosaurs turning into things, my favorite is that dinosaurs "turned into" birds. Because evolution, as consistently implied by the narrators on PBS, is a conscious act, kinda like how those firewalkers can cross a bed of coals without being burned. It's all about mental energy. Which is why all my positive thinking will guarantee that one of my sons will grow up to be BYU's first Butkus Award winner.
-Andy |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 13 '08, 11:01 am |
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Reviews written: 1379 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: I'm always leery...
Quote: panguitch Are you dissing dinos? Dude, what kind of misanthrope are you? Geomisanthrope. You'll find that except for a few chirpy types who like to give dinostrations to preschoolers, geologists are universally sick of dinomaia.
Quote: panguitch Which is why all my positive thinking will guarantee that one of my sons will grow up to be BYU's first Butkus Award winner. He'd best be a larger physical specimen than Dad, then - though I don't doubt that Dick was smarter than the stereotypical footbal player, in his playing days he was also about the size of you and me combined...
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rex |
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| panguitch |
Posted: Oct 13 '08, 12:46 pm |
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Reviews written: 285 Member since: Jul 30 '02
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RE: I'm always leery...
Yes, well, there are drugs that can make you bigger.
Which is what happened to the dinosaurs. In a hotly contested arms race the herbivores and carnivores took steroids until they finally collapsed under their own weight and went extinct.
Let us learn from our history and never repeat the mistakes they made.
-Andy |
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| scmrak |
Posted: Oct 13 '08, 12:59 pm (Updated: Oct 13 '08, 1:10 pm) |
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Reviews written: 1379 Member since: Sep 27 '00
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RE: I'm always leery...
Hmph: and here I thought this was "The Real Reason the Dinosaurs Went Extinct" (at least according to Larson, G. [ca. 1981])
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| dolphinboy |
Posted: Oct 14 '08, 7:11 am |
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Reviews written: 536 Member since: Apr 15 '06
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RE: I'm always leery...
You're both right; they smoked their steroids. |