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Sleeper54 Slays Strawman! Extra! Extra! Read All About it! (Reply to this comment)
by aohcapablanca
Dear Sleeper 54,
You wrote, in your lucid, riveting book review:
" I can not imagine anything more dangerous to critical thinking and effective learning than the wanton, silly censorship of ideas and books that challenge."
"wanton, silly censorship of ideas and books?" I mildly urge that you not become so incensed over idiocies out there that you trivialize a debate over censorship.
One can imagine an at least arguable case for "non-silly" censorship.
For instance: my father used to argue around the dinner table when I was a lad: "You would not let a man ship poisoned candy into your house. Why then a book with poisoned ideas?"
A case might be made that some ideas poison young minds, especially those still in their "latency" period: innocent, before they grasp the distinction between good an evil.
I recall when Macau/Macao was still independently Portuguese but under growing pressure from Maoist China. China demanded that all schools (overwhelmingly Roman Catholic) in this Portuguese enclave teach Marx and Lenin. The government did not knuckle under. But one wise old Jesuit priest had said: "I don't mind in the least if Marx and Lenin are taught, so long as I am the teacher."
Count me in on your crusade against wanton, silly censorship.
I chuckled over your good review.
Cordially,
AOHCAPABLANCA/Patrick K
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Nov 06 '09
3:54 am PST
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this books goes on my reading list (Reply to this comment)
by mitch1340
Your review convinced me to add this book to my ever expanding reading list. I wonder if I will reach the same conclusions.
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Nov 03 '07
10:44 pm PDT
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Re: Re: What is the goal... (Reply to this comment)
by vicfar
Marie,
your answer is reasonable, but different societies have formulated (implicitly or explicitly) agendas for their educational approaches. Societies may need to build a common set of beliefs in order to focus the human potential of a nation (the Fascists in Italy certainly did that, as well as the Communists in the USSR), or simply develop human manpower around the projected economic growth/vision according to those guiding a nation. In this sense a well integrated primary and secondary education is needed to separate people according to potential and develop the needed spectrum of workers.
The old German ideal of state education revolved around von Humboldt's vision of emancipation for mankind - the growth through the quest for knowledge and independent thinking. These ideas are still alive somewhere, e.g. in some of the US liberal arts colleges.
Today's education seems to perform more of a system-subordinated role. Optimizing the performance of the Capitalist system, measured by GDP, is the ultimate goal of today's education.
In the US educational system, with its appalling spectrum of quality, I see a variety of designs - from creating future world leaders to producing a certain amount of "chaff" to burn in wanton wars or use for menial jobs. The latter agenda is unlikely to be openly declared, but if you see the state of many US public schools, it is hard to doubt it! The US is preparing to become a two-tier society, with the majority occupying the bottom rung. The school system is helping reach this vision.
Cheers
V.
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Oct 01 '07
3:06 am PDT
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Re: What is the goal... (Reply to this comment)
by msiduri,  in Books
Interesting question--I have always thought that the goal of educating children was to give them skills and knowledge necessary to for a society to thrive. A common language is one of those skills, along with--at the very least--the ability to perform basic mathematical functions, the understanding of basic science, and an appreciation for the world we live in through literature, geography, history, social studies and multiple languages.
Or perhaps that's too tall an order? :-)
Marie
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Sep 28 '07
7:22 am PDT
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What is the goal... (Reply to this comment)
by vicfar
In my opinion, the West is now unclear as to the purpose of education, and debates aren't even taking place. At the beginning of the century, most European countries and probably the US designed educational systems aimed at creating a common knowledge base among its students in order to create a society subscribing to a shared worldview, with focus on the basic skills to function in a society. In Italy, education was carefully layered as to select leaders and workers early on in the process.
As the democratization process spread to all segments of society, loud criticism labeled the old approach "notion-based" or "propaganda". But in reality, there has been a general demand for more lenient grading and easier topics. This dumbing down of schools has been dramatic all over the West. At the same time, the attempts to broaden the student's critical skills have not worked out.
Overall, primary education is in disarray in the US and much of Europe, if I understand what I am reading. In Italy, discussing the purpose of state-supported education isn't even allowed. Taking this analysis one step backward, our school systems are in disarray because our societies are in disarray.
I have no solution, but I think the debate on what education should achieve should be step number one...
V.
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Sep 27 '07
1:49 pm PDT
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Part of the problem is the overeliance on textbooks... (Reply to this comment)
by NFP
...instead of primary sources, even at the elementary level. For math and science, OK. But for history or literature? Maybe to start, but not for as long as we use them in our school systems. The very nature of textbooks is distillation, which may not be censorship per se, but comes close when someone has to decide what should or should nto be included.
cheers, nick
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Sep 24 '07
3:19 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Surely, (Reply to this comment)
by Stephen_Murray
I stand (well, sit) corrected about the rank-order of states by school-age children. Ca. 2003, according to Census Bureau estimates,
California had the highest total of elementary school-age children (4.8 million) in 2003, followed by Texas (3.1 million), New York (2.3 million), Florida (2.0 million) and Illinois (1.6 million). Nationally, there were 36.8 million children in this age group. California had the highest number of high school-age children (2.1 million) in 2003, followed by Texas (1.3 million), New York (1.0 million), Florida (900,000) and Illinois (714,000). The total nationally was 16.5 million.
And (BTW) Nevada, at 13 percent, led the nation in the rate of increase in the elementary school-age population from 2000 to 2003. Arizona (10 percent), Florida (5 percent), and Texas, North Carolina and Utah (4 percent each) followed. Nationally, the number of children of these ages declined by 1 percent.
I doubt that there is data, but I would hypothesize that the rate of home-schooling parents engaging in textbook activism is higher than the rate of textbook activism by parents with children in public schools. The former think about the matter more than the latter.
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Sep 21 '07
10:35 am PDT
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Re: Surely, (Reply to this comment)
by panguitch,  in Books
Well, according to the Census Bureau's 2006 "American Community Survey" data (just google American FactFinder), Texas has 5.3 million people aged 5-19, and NY has 3.9 million.
So Texas is considerably larger, but NY ain't itty-bitty.
As for your more important point, I agree that people are rarely content with having control over what their own children learn, they too often want control over what all children learn. Indeed, it sometimes seems that certain people (speaking of no one here) resent homeschoolers for just this reason.
-Andy
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Sep 20 '07
12:44 pm PDT
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Thanks! (Reply to this comment)
by hadassahchana, in Books
This goes on my must-read list. Textbooks are on the top of my pet peeve list, and since it is a long list, that says something. I do homeschool - not for religious reasons but because I want my children to have a real education. Finding a science textbook has become my Holy Grail - creationism/intelligent design is not science no matter who says it is. And yes, I do censor what my children read. I see no need to give equal weight to the theory of creationism and evolution.
Great review, and I didn't mean to jump on my soapbox. I know I'd find this book interesting, though.
Cindy
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Sep 20 '07
8:14 am PDT
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Home schooling (Reply to this comment)
by pestyside, in Books
Home schooling is an interesting topic, something too lengthy for this comment, but...
it's bothersome when people pull children from public schools but I understand the need to be sure the child actually gets a quality education (classrooms can be very disruptive); parents don't want their children exposed to other values (poor preparation for the real world); but mostly the community is hurt by not exposing their children to a diverse mix of backgrounds and beliefs. I loved my public school education.
Nice review, as always, and thanks for the contribution.
Patsy
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Sep 20 '07
5:43 am PDT
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That is, assuming Johnny can read... (Reply to this comment)
by msiduri, in Books
Your review touched several nerves, frankly. A nation as wealthy as the U.S. has no excuse for the appallingly poor education it offers at times. Basic skills are not taught well, textbooks contain glaring mistakes or are stalking horses in the service of creationism.
I don't know what the solution is, but it is not simply taking children out of the public school system and homeschooling them, though this may work well for individual families. While I admit that a child's education is the responsibility of the parents first, not all parents make good teachers. In many--I suspect most--cases, the responsible thing appears to be to get involved in one's child's schooling, right down to the homework, talk to teachers, volunteer.
I could go on, but I won't.
Thanks for the review and for the opportunity to vent.
Rant over. Really.
Marie
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Sep 20 '07
12:37 am PDT
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Surely, (Reply to this comment)
by Stephen_Murray
there are more public school children in the state of New York than in Texas, so I wonder why textbook makers pander to Texas. The size of California, I understand.
And would-be censors (a varied lot) are not content with controlling what their own children read but want to enforce their (varied) views on everyone else, so the solution you propose at the end is ineffective, quite apart of the unfeasibility of most parents home-schooling their children.
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Sep 19 '07
11:42 pm PDT
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