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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: great review but what about safety features? (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh,  in Cars & Motorsports
Extremely informative comment. Thanks.
Honda has always been the master of giving consumers as few choices as possible. Remember the old "we make it simple" or something like that tagline? Recently others like Mazda are copying this strategy, though no one still comes close to Honda.
Only the European luxury makes continue to offer a wide range of interior color choices. Even five years ago a car like my Ford Contour offered at least four that I can think of (gray, tan, blue, red). These days most American and Japanese cars are available with only tan and gray.
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Nov 08 '02
7:57 am PST
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Re: Re: Re: Re: great review but what about safety features? (Reply to this comment)
by brucec32
Another great review. Highly valued.
About the Mazda. I noticed that unfortunately you cannot get the side/curtain airbags w/o also springing for the tacky "sport package" that includes a lot of plastic cladding and other cosmetic-only changes. V6 models also require that you get the stereo upgrade, a sunroof, and some other "options" to get the airbags. Otherwise, this seems like a very interesting car.
Passats: I love the way they look, inside and out, but I hear more reliability concerns about them than just about any other car I've researched. But they do resell well, so that helps. As far as handling, try clubb5.com. A lot of guys there add 17" wheels w/ 235mm tires, sport springs/shocks, and a turbo "chip" and seem to get pretty impressive performance out of them. Of course that costs about $3,000, but you do wind up with a quick German sport sedan with decent room. I suspect that just putting some decent rubber on the car would make it an adequate performer compared to the Honda/Toyota competition.
Pricing: Recently new Accords are going for UNDER invoice on CarsDirect.com, so they are definitely discounting. I assume Toyotas are also.
The Accord: My biggest problem with the Accord is that the styling is still a little too anonymous/Japanese, with a close second being the limited color/interior choices. For example, you cannot get a black sedan with a black leather interior. What's up with that? Want a Red car? You're stuck with tan leather. I would like to see an Accord Sedan with beefier tires and 17" wheels with a little more offset to put them out even with the sides of the car. The sunken wheels look just doesn't cut it for me.
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Nov 07 '02
3:40 pm PST
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Re: Re: Re: great review but what about safety features? (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh, in Cars & Motorsports
I really don't know much about EBD. I believe it's most beneficial with heavy loads, since it varies the distribution of braking force between the front and rear based on how heavily the car is loaded. I could be wrong, but I don't see this as that big an issue in a sedan.
I mentioned the Saab because you're big on safety. You are right about the Infiniti having as many safety features standard as the Saab--something I had not realized--though Saab tends to do more research in this area. Comparably equipped the Infiniti is a few thousand more expensive, but has more power and more rear seat room. The base prices of the two cars are about the same, though.
I personally have high hopes for the Mazda6. The four (none of these are V4s, no V) is supposed to be quite good in that car. It will have both types of side airbags as options, but I don't know if they'll be available with the base car. It's been nearly a year since I sat in the car, but I remember generally liking the interior. Maybe a bit too much metallic-looking plastic. Nicer inside than the Altima, probably not quite as nice as the Accord or Camry. I'll probably review one as soon as they list it, since the listings usually follow availability by a couple of weeks.
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Oct 21 '02
10:29 am PDT
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Re: great review but what about safety features? (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh, in Cars & Motorsports
Every safety feature on the VW is available on the Camry, though the stability control (VSC in Toyota speak) requires going with the V6. If you do consider the Camry, be sure to look at the SE model. Its firmer suspension is better for active safety. You might not care for the standard spoiler (I'm not crazy about it either) but the SE certainly handles much better than other Camrys.
Stability control (keeps the car from spinning--probably quite good to have with a new driver) is not available at all with the Accord. To get head curtain airbags, you must get the EX V6. To get side airbags, you must get an LX or EX. Both of these are standard on the VW, and optional on any Camry.
With the VW, be sure to get the optional skid control. At $280 it's very fairly priced.
Consumer Reports found the emergency handling of the Passat superior to the Camry and last year's Accord. However, they never tested the SE version of the Camry, and have not yet tested the new Accord. I'd have to drive these cars back-to-back to be sure, but my sense is that the Camry SE (V6 in my case, but the four should handle even better because less weight up front) had the most stable feeling chassis by a slight edge. But then I've never been as crazy as others about the Passat's handling.
In terms of engines the Accord is the clear winner in my book, with the Camry second. I don't care for the turbo four in the Passat, or the V6 for that matter. Also note that it requires premium fuel while the others do not.
Both the Passat and Camry have done well in crash tests. The new Accord has not yet been tested. I would be surprised if it doesn't do well.
One other vehicle you might want to consider is the 2003 Saab 9-3, which is just now making it to dealerships. It stickers at about $28,000 with automatic. It has all of these safety features and a number others such as active head restraints standard. The engine is a 175 horsepower turbo four that I find superior to the VW's. Leather is also standard. Saab has always been a leader in both active and passive safety. The new 9-3 seems to do very well in both. If safety is a top priority, it's definitely worth a serious look.
The base car doesn't handle as crisply as I'd like, and the seats have no side bolstering (probably not an issue for you), but it is a match for any of the above. Other than that the major weakness of the car is a more cramped rear seat than you'll find in any of the above cars.
Recently Saabs have had good reliability ratings in Consumer Reports. But as with any new model, this one could potentially be troublesome.
The larger Saab 9-5 has a significantly higher sticker price, but the salesman told me that a special lease rate currently available can make it cheaper to lease than the 9-3. I didn't check the details on this. The 9-5 is on an older chassis, but I like its driving position better, and its rear seat is a bit larger. GM may have zero-percent financing on both cars, I'm not sure.
One final problem with Saabs: They tend to depreciate quickly. A lease is one way to avoid this issue. I also suspect that a 2003 9-3 with a sticker under 30 will do better here, as the price is lower than many people will expect.
One final advantage of Saabs: Everyone else doesn't have one.
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Oct 20 '02
9:32 pm PDT
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Re: Not Sure (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh, in Cars & Motorsports
I guess I should have been clearer that the IS elements (and for all I know both cars could have gotten these from a third vehicle) are the rising crease along the bodyside and the basic shape of the headlamps. The overall car does not resemble the IS.
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Oct 18 '02
8:59 pm PDT
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Re: V6 manual (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh, in Cars & Motorsports
I've read in a few places that they're thinking of bringing the Euro Accord over as an Acura TSX, priced in mid-to-high 20s. We'll see. I'm just hoping they put a manual with a six in something with four doors, Honda or Acura. If not, a highly tuned four might do.
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Oct 18 '02
7:43 pm PDT
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Re: Very Nice Review....if a little wordy (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh, in Cars & Motorsports
Check out the speedometer and see what you think Darn thing wouldn't stop staring at me with it's one big eye!
It's kind of like that.
As for road noise, I haven't driven an Accord other than the 2003 in a very long time. I also didn't drive the Accord EX and Camry SE back to back or over the same roads. My sense is that road noise was a bit more prominent in the Accord, but I cannot be sure. What I do remember distinctly was my amazement at the overall refinement and quietness of the car. Seemed close to more expensive luxury sedans in these areas.
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Oct 18 '02
7:41 pm PDT
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Very Nice Review....if a little wordy (Reply to this comment)
by bg357
*Excellent review but LONG!!
*You are clearly very knowledgeable about your
subject.
*I don't know if the size of the speedometer warranted so much attention, obviously a pet peeve for you.
*I would be interested in your opinion as to the improvements, if any, made in the isolation of road noise on the '03. In my opinion, recent Accords have not performed well in this regard.
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Oct 18 '02
12:18 pm PDT
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Re: V6 manual (Reply to this comment)
by spdster2002
For one thing, with a 240-horsepower V6, there really is no need to bring the 190-horse 2.4 to the US. Also, the 6-speed is only available with the coupe, so I've heard (not just this review).
Excellent review by the way!
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Oct 18 '02
11:25 am PDT
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Not Sure (Reply to this comment)
by BrianCam
I think you have a very thorough review here, and I agree with much of what you said. I have been to recent press conferences for the Mazda 6, Honda Accord, and Chrysler Pacifica. Each time they mentioned the VW Passat as a target, so you're right on with that observation.
I also agree that the new Accord looks like a mish-mash of different styles, but I don't see any Lexus IS in there.
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Oct 18 '02
10:37 am PDT
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Re: passat GLX available with manual (Reply to this comment)
by mkaresh, in Cars & Motorsports
Yeah, I guess I should point that out. Thanks.
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Oct 18 '02
6:41 am PDT
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passat GLX available with manual (Reply to this comment)
by cheeku76
Excellent review as usual!
Just wanted to mention that the Passsat GLX is available with a manual,unlike the Accord V6 EX sedan which is automatic only.
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Oct 18 '02
5:46 am PDT
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