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Re: Re: Re: More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by phdeee
"What is it about personal, relevant, factual descriptions of personal experience that you DO NOT understand?? Please tell us all, we're dying to hear it. Chuckle. ;o) "
Simply, to answer with another question, what is it about "placebo effect" you DO NOT understand? chuckle ;o) Since we already know your limited understanding of the word "fact", it seems a reasonable response. Chuckle ;o) Scientists work diligently to remove this effect from their data, while others exploit it.
Aren't dealers grand...
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May 19 '05
2:42 am PDT
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The snake oil along with the snake, wanting it both ways. (Reply to this comment)
by phdeee
What's funny is the dealers that come on here and pitch the pitch. If this was just another gimmicky item, so be it, but it's far worse than that. While most reputable air cleaner manufacturers that do not work a pyramid scheme of dealers or can't pack up and move like some others, work diligently to keep ozone generation down, there are actually some who aim to produce MORE! Unbelievable! Why? Well, basically, ozone generators are cheaply made, very basic components, low tech for high dollars. Bring in folks concerned about their health and you've got a match made in hawker's heaven. This is just too tempting for some looking to make a fast buck and plenty of those they make! Now they cry "but our machines put out SAFE levels". Great, at SAFE levels, ozone has NO significant effect on air quality, period. So what, you're saying your machines are now safe but useless, so worth every inflated penny of the price? You can't have it both ways, ozone does kill organic material at high levels, levels too high for humans to be exposed to without risk. At safe levels, nada.
"But not one person has died from these machines". Great, I'm glad to hear that among the many cases of these machines either causing mild respiratory irritations or exacerbating pre-existing conditions, no one has died. Fantastic! The only blessing behind these machines is that the units break, often, rendering them harmless which has probably saved MANY lives. Ozone generators belong in the hands of professionals only, usually addressing smoke damage. Ever see these guys at work; talk about biosuits!
And now for the humor: What is most funny is to visit these dealer's websites, each one calling the other a fraud, now that is a hoot. Sorta like watching two hyenas fight for scraps.
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May 19 '05
2:23 am PDT
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Excellent research!!! (Reply to this comment)
by drsam
I've long been concerned abut the health risks associated with ozone generating air purifiers. This is a concern shared by Health Canada, the EPA, the American Lung Association... and just about every major health organization. Who isn't concerned... well mostly the MLM people who are selling these fraudulent products. Sadly, there are thousands of MLM sales people who truly do not understand the science of these products and the danger they represent. Even sadder - they continue to aggressively market these products to people with asthma and other respiratory conditions, the very people who can be the most seriously harmed.
Ozone air purifiers are the Big Tobacco of this generation.
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May 13 '05
9:44 am PDT
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Re: Re: Thank you (Reply to this comment)
by bilisguru
lynneeve,
Only the older units were that way. Like mine.
The newer model home units all have a sensor preventing them from producing the required set government level of not greater than 5 ppb.
That's was why it was recommended in the instructions to leave the home to let your nose re-acclimate away from the ozone.
An admitted flaw in engineering that was fixed with the sensor. No home unit they produce will emit over 5 ppb in normal operation now. In Which, the ozone can be turned off completely if the owner is concerned about it. The unit will cease to control offensive odors, however.
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May 08 '05
7:57 pm PDT
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Re: Re: Thank you (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
lynneeve, Good to hear from you again but this is starting to feel like sending coals to Newcastle. What no one has ever proven is that breathing ozone is necessary or beneficial to human health. In fact, there is not even a shred of evidence to indicate that. None whatsoever. When people grasp that fact then the whole ozone generating "air purifier" fraud collapses like a house of cards.
But it really doesn't matter because time is running out. More and more people are clearly finding out the facts for themselves. Add to that, the CPSC is very likely to bring the hammer down on these devices later this year when they issue their report. Add on the latest Consumer Reports issue and then their full scale report which they will release later this year. And finally add on the latest class action lawsuit in California against EcoQuest for engaging in false advertising and you have the making of the perfect media storm that will the expose the truth of this story to the American people at large. In the meantime, I must admit that we are having way too much fun with this topic. Take care.
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May 08 '05
4:07 pm PDT
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Re: Thank you (Reply to this comment)
by lynneeve
I, for one, was interested in reading here the user's instructions for detecting dangerous over-production of ozone from these machines. I had been wondering how this admitted potential problem was supposed to be monitored. Now I found out that the user is supposed to tell by simply smelling! The problem with this method is that ozone deadens the sense of smell. So a person with an impaired sense of smell is supposed to detect by smell when too much ozone is being generated?
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May 08 '05
9:21 am PDT
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Re: Re: More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by bilisguru
Cikaris,
What is it about personal, relevant, factual descriptions of personal experience that you DO NOT understand?? Please tell us all, we're dying to hear it. Chuckle. ;o)
How do you explain the (several) millions of good folks out there who have used (and are still using) these fine machines with no problems what so ever?
HA, I'll double dog dare ya to do just that.
You can not explain that, so don't even go there.
Do you realize that Sea World uses EcoQuest's commercial sized air units at their facilities to control the fishy odors for the good folks visiting their fine establishments, so they will not get sick from smelling fish? No one has ever complained of the ozone created by them to control the fish odors to this day.
Quick, go complain! There is a brand new venue!
Ah ha....
While we're at it here, "ppb", this means parts per billion. BILLION!
Yep, a billion, a part so infinitesimal that it can NOT be seen with the bare eye in one cubic foot of anything, but, in this case "AIR". It would , in fact, take a microscope with a power of X100 to see it, if you have GOOD eyes.
Another, chuckle.
So, with THAT in mind, you would have 2 to 4
BILLIONTHS OF A PART of the dreaded "OZONE GAS" (That no one has died or gotten sick from in this concentration) in one cubic foot of air you could not see with your bare eye.
OH, what a hearty laugh!
Gee, the (should be) dead???? (from the dreaded OZONE GAS) are STILL WRITING about it, yawn...
Folks, here we have one person's opinion who hasn't used one of these machines correctly for any appreciable length of time. They've dug up a bunch of damaging data that is in a real world, common sense question of validity. Of which the most valid part is the alleged sickness' and deaths from this dreaded ozone gas in which millions HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED. None.
The ONLY cases of sickness are when this gas is used in concentrations that are NOT RECOMMENDED.
The Arthur of this article has admitted to breathing a concentration of OZONE of a higher concentration than recommended. Thus, the admitted whining sickness was the result from the ignorance of that fact.
We have a personal experience of use of this air purifier for a period of greater than 10 years with no adverse conditions attributed to the dreaded OZONE GAS. None. The machine preformed as represented.
NO ASSUMPTIONS are stated, only real world personal experiences. By the way, Assumption comes from the word Assume. (Using it usually makes an A** (out of) U (&) ME. So, I'll personally refrain from using it.
The machine is in current use by millions world wide with no problems. None.
It has an unconditional satisfaction guarantee.
To my personal knowledge, I don't believe any of these other machines can state that. If you don't like it for any reason, it's history. At THEIR EXPENSE.
AND, none of these other so called "APPROVED",
machines have a "FREE TRIAL" (at the owners expense) in your home. Here we have another real world experience for you to judge on a personal note. Like it or lose it, free of charge for the experience.
So, Prove the hype wrong or right to your own personal satisfaction. Like I and millions of others have. This way, only personal common sense will prevail.
Agreed??
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May 08 '05
7:33 am PDT
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Thank you (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
digitalprimate, Thank you for adding your voice of praise. On a personal note, I don't worry about the posters or other "scientists" here who don't understand or care about the mountain of scientific evidence against these fraudulent devices. I care only about getting the facts out to those who are interested in them. Fortunately, more and more people are researching the facts for themselves and that can only be a good thing.
P.S. I love the reference to "reality based community." It makes me recall the bogus and unfathomable "scientific" explanations offered by NPR's hilarious "Dr. Science" who always justified his "explanations" by reminding his listeners that "I have a Masters Degree in Science!" Who says science can't be fun? Thanks again.
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May 07 '05
10:00 pm PDT
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Re: More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
Even if one assumes that this device does everything that Ecoquest claims it does, though there is no credible scientific evidence for it (and they admit that), and even if one puts aside all the controversy and condemnation of these devices and the criticism and legal judgments against Ecoquest itself, the basic problem is that there are many reliable certified air cleaning machines made by reputable manufacturers that have been proven and tested to work by AHAM that also cost less. And that is the best piece of common sense that doesn't require a “scientist” to say so.
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May 07 '05
9:58 pm PDT
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Re: Re: More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by bilisguru
Hold on here, I understand exactly how scientific inquiry works, as a scientist, and how flawed the scientific adcopy can be, as a scientist.
Scientific adcopy is essentially and opinion of the facts as they (that scientist) understands them. More than once they fail to get all of the facts. Such as personal attestation facts.
Real world facts.
Un-biased controlled studies. Etc.
Essentially, flawed studies tend to be repeated as such, with referrals to the same, further spreading the flawed study.
This has happened time and time again in the scientific world.
Just ask any truthful scientist.
Science, as such, is continuously evolving into other relevant scientific facts to base an opinion on.
For example, the theory of relativity wasn't based on fact. It was based on theory only later to be, somewhat, based on some facts. It still isn't completely and factually based on fact alone. BUT, SO FAR, everything fits according to theory.
Some of these studies mentioned, were in fact, based on some theory and not factual in their entirety. If you care to take the time to read them with an open mind. Recommendations ARE of an opinion, relevant of the facts or theories PRESENTED. This could be the flaw, that is, WHAT is or what is not presented. Often times, the latter to enforce an opinion.
So, there we have that.
From a scientific stand point, you understand.
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May 07 '05
9:40 am PDT
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Re: More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by bilisguru
Tired Old Ecoquest adcopy?
You just don't get it, do you?
EcoQuest has nothing to do with facts mentioned here or in my description of our XL-15 and what it has done for us in 10 years.
1. You have no reliable arguement for what our XL-15 has done for us. You were not here, you didn't see it and you absolutely have no clue.
2. It has helped with my wifes asthma, not hindered it.
3. It has helped with our over all breathing in our home, not made us sick or killed us with ozone.
4. It has done what it was represented to do and done it very well.
5. It is as reliable as the day we bought it and still doing as represented.
Following the instructions with the unit , you do not breath as much ozone in your home as you do outside breathing Mother Natures air!!
That is a fact.
They can't sue mother nature so they pick on EcoQuest.
THAT is a fact.
The air units do exactly as they are represented to do,
That is a fact.
There is NO mis-representation about that.
These government institutions have more than once been mis-lead,
THAT is a fact.
The organizations you mention tend to all get on an "accepted" (at the time band wagon, emphasis mine) beating their own drums with these scare tactics just like they did with saccharine, eggs, cholesterol, you name it.
THAT is a fact.
Get this, if you can,
we are all going to keel over faster breathing the air outdoors than breathing the air indoors IF you believe the governments adcopy!!!!!
That is a fact!
These government agencies you mention have been ripe with scare tactics over the years so they keep getting the government funding they squander on this type of thing.
AND we pay for this!!
YEP, another fact.
Get real and read between the lines here.
IF their adcopy (These gov't agencies) was true, you'd be dead already!!!
IF it were true, myself and my family would be dead as well.
I don't think so, I'm writing this. Ah DUH!
You are too, another ah duh.
So, I would think their hype is flawed, wouldn't you? Given these facts, you understand.
You know, it is said, that everything and everyone has it's place on this earth or it wouldn't be here.
Do you agree?
Common sense has far more weight in an argument than all of the book sense you care to bring on.
THAT is proven fact too, everyday.
So, I'll end this with the common sense scenario described.
You are here and so am I.
There would seem to be some mis-information mentioned here that common sense simply won't adhere to.
So, there we have it.
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May 07 '05
9:11 am PDT
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Re: More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by digitalprimate
Thanks for the review; it was well written and, more importantly, well documented. And, on a personal note, I wouldn't worry about the posters here who either don't understand or don't care how scientific inquiry works.
Those of us in the reality based community appreciate the leg work you did.
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May 06 '05
12:05 pm PDT
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More of the same tired old Ecoquest adcopy (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
When and if all the outstanding issues have been addressed and questions answered AND all the professional and scientific agencies, institutions, and organizations that are opposed to the use of ozone generators as air purifiers in people's homes such as the EPA, NIOSH, NIEHS, ASHRAE, ALA, CARB, Health Canada, IAACM, AAAAI, AAFA do a 180 degree turn and come out in favour of them then I will be happy to reconsider the "Living Air Classic" in spite of my own personal bad experience with it.
I trust what the EPA, NIOSH, NIEHS, ASHRAE, ALA, CARB, Health Canada, IAACM, AAAAI, AAFA say not Ecoquest claims which are not only scientifically unsubstantiated but they are legally required to admit that!
The bottom line is that there is not a shred of scientific evidence that breathing ozone in ANY concentration is beneficial for humans. None whatsoever.
But I do agree that the facts are potentially dangerous if you don't read them. Fortunately the facts as presented by the EPA, NIOSH, NIEHS, ASHRAE, ALA, CARB, Health Canada, IAACM, AAAAI, AAFA are good enough for me. Are you going to argue with them? You’d look kind of funny making another grossly unscientific “mother nature uses ozone to clean the air” spiel to them. Seriously, I wouldn’t go there.
Are they "mis-informed" as well? I doubt it. In the meantime, people will just have to read the scientific and legal record for themselves and decide who is misinformed and who isn’t.
Is it any wonder that Ecoquest has generated another law suit against them? (See below)
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May 02 '05
9:45 am PDT
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RE: A Potentially Dangerous Fraud (Reply to this comment)
by bilisguru
OK,
for those who are mis-informed.
Potentually dangerous for those who can't read.
We (Us, um wha) have been using an XL-15 for 10+ years.
Quite long enough to HAVE an educated opinion.
As Instructed in the instructions that came with the unit! This is VERY important here.
Here we have a little tid bit of information omitted from the original review.
Instructions, none were included.
I wonder why?
The "Ozone" generation scale on the XL-15 is accurate and should be followed to the letter.
(actually, more than accurate) These scales are for maximum allowable quantities of ozone, per square footage of space, respectively. This will also vary, according to the instructions, on the contamination of the "ozone plates". The more contaminated they are, the less effective they are. The scale errs on the side of being very contaminated.
The instructions recommend letting "your nose" be your definative guide.
So, here we have it.
EVERYONES nose is different.
The directions state to place the unit in an elevated location if possible. In a central location of the home, Close to A/C return ducts.(Highly recommended)
The directions state "to start with" turn the ozone control knob to the selected square footage as described on the scale.
This is a beginning point.
This for the square footage in the room it is in.
If a strong smell of ozone becomes present, decrease the setting until you can "BARELY" smell the ozone (THUNDERSTORM, not chlorine, SMELL) as state the instructions.
The smell after a thunderstorm is quite different than the smell of chlorine.
ANYONE knows that.
It further states that to leave the building for an extended time letting your nose acclimate and upon returning you should faintly smell the ozone. If you have more than a faint smell to decrease the setting further until this is achieved. This is VERY important.
Thus when the directions are followed, we have a very low level of ozone present in the atmosphere of the home. Less than .05 ppb.
Less than what is in the environement after a thunderstorm. Less than what mother natures uses to "oxidize" pollutants in the atmosphere we all breath. I haven't noticed anyone keeling over from breathing our atmosphere after a thunderstorm lately, have you?
I should think not.
Yes, ozone is bad for you in high concentrations, no one said it wasn't.
But, Low Levels do remove offending smells such as onion, cooking grease, cigarette smoke, garlic, skunk (you read right, removed from a dog who got sprayed when nothing else would), etc. When you want to smell good things, turn off the control temperarily. AHHH DUH!
Again, it does have it's good points in low concentrations, as mother nature intended.
Are you going to argue with mother nature?
Seriously, I wouldn't go there. You'd look funny electrofied.
Next, ionization works quite well at making really small particles stick to other really small particles thus making bigger particles which become heavy enough to eventually fall from the atmosphere instead of being suspended in it for us to breath.
Again, mother nature (in her infinate wisdom) created just this same process with the thunderstorm. This is her natural way of cleansing the air we all breath.
The only thing missing is the rain in this little marvel of engineering.
Rain, washes the larger particulates created by ionization from the atmosphere.
We can personally attest to the fact that the
XL-15 did remove the odors stated and more.
We can personally attest to the fact that the
XL-15 did remove particulates in the atmosphere of our home as proof by the sunbeam test and A/C filter not getting dirty as often (3+ months verses monthly).
The sunbeam test worked like this.
The sunbeam, entering our hall way, showed "sparkles" (particulates) in the air we couldn't see with regular indoor light. Look for yourself, you'll see them in your own sunbeams. These became fewer and fewer as the days went on (we're talking a week here). You could actually watch them move toward each other very slowly and stick together becoming heavy enough to fall. After a week, it looked like a heavy concentration of "Sparkles" went to a barely noticable concentration of "sparkles". A marked improvement that only continues to get better.
Yes, the particulates fell on EVERYTHING.
The furniture, floors, beds, TV's, etc.
They DIDN'T stick to the walls.(as some stated)
BUT, good house keeping got the little buggers all up and away never to be seen again.
We have an excellent vaccuum( a 5 filter un-named one), soap and water, "endust"ed dusting cloths, you know the drill.
CLEAN your house AFTER the storm.
Now, the dusting is extended to weeks instead of daily. No asthma triggers for my wife to breath.
(By the way, she has been attack free since we bought it. Not the case before.)
No offensive odors.
Changing A/C filters is a quarter year job (or longer) instead of monthly.
Cigarette smoke is history. (I've stopped smoking, but, relatives/friends still do and can in the house with no offending smells. THAT'S really nice.)
Bathrooms, laundry rooms, beddings, cars "sanitized" and smelling really fresh and clean now.
We sleep better than we ever have.
Allergies are at a minimum. No triggers, Ah duh!
NO VERY EXPENSIVE AIR FILTERS TO BUY, EVER.
This will really add up over the years into the hundreds of dollars.
Just a monthly cleaning of the lint screen and ozone plates per INSTRUCTIONS.
I could go on and on, but, the point here is
"READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS".
A SATISFIED USER, it (really) got 'er done.
Cost effective?
You bet.
Adding up the hospital bills for asthma attacks, less allergy/asthma medications, peace of mind not running friends and relatives outside to smoke and no filter costs. It easily runs into the thousands over 10 years. Go to the hospital and see what THAT will cost. A real no brainer.
So, like they say, you be the judge, for free.
They'll bring it in, show you how to use it and leave. After you try it, they'll pick it up for free too, if you want. Most don't want it to leave though. We sure didn't.
Try that with Walmart or any other retailer.
You'll go get it, at your expense. Pay for it.
What you'll get works in one room, not your whole house. Recommended Filter costs will be OUT RAGEOUS. If you don't like it, you'll pay to return it and MAYBE get your money back IF you can find your receipt.
What a hassle.
OK, your turn.
The ball is in your court, now that you have all of the facts. You can now make an informed decision. (By the way, how many times have you read the governments miss information stated as harmfull they later retracted?? They were lead by educated opinions that later found out they were lead astray, weren't they??)
;oD
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Apr 30 '05
5:55 pm PDT
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Re: CA Class Action - advertisement (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
cn444, I am not eligible to be part of this lawsuit but good luck anyway.
It seems like only yesterday that when I mentioned the condemnation of Ecoquest's ozone generating "air purifiers" and their false advertising no one knew what I meant. Thanks to the power of the media and growing interest in indoor air quality by people who now spend more than 90% of their time indoors, news about Ecoquest and their false advertising and deceptive marketing of their "air purifiers" seems to spreading.
All of this talk is good news for people who want to find out the actual facts about Ecoquest and their products
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Apr 28 '05
12:10 pm PDT
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CA Class Action - advertisement (Reply to this comment)
by cn444
I am an attorney in Long Beach, California, and my law firm has filed a class action lawsuit in California against EcoQuest Holding Corporation for engaging in false advertising and unfair competition by manufacturing, advertising, and offering ozone generators under a number of different names, including, but not limited to, Living Air Classic, Breeze AT, Flair by Living Air, Zone-IT, and Pursonic Mister by EcoQuest.
The class that we seek to represent consists of all consumers who purchased, in California, an ozone generator manufactured, labeled, advertised, promoted, offered for sale, sold, or distributed by EcoQuest at any time from August 11, 1999 to present.
If you feel like you fall within the above-described class, and you would like to speak with us about the situation that you described, please feel free to contact me, at no cost to you. You can either e-mail to me a response, with your contact information, or give me a call at (562) 432-2551.
Since we are attorneys, we are required by law to identify this post as an ADVERTISEMENT. We are also required to notify you that, if you do not wish to receive further communications from us, you can so advise me by replying to this e-mail, or write to me at CNGUYEN@WKALAW.COM. However, I do hope to hear from you, to see if we can be of assistance.
Very truly yours,
Cat Nguyen
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Apr 27 '05
2:50 pm PDT
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Re: Re: A Word from Ecoquest (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
Dear lynneeve:
Once again your comments are spot on but you are, sorry to have point this out, wasting your time on this guy. He has already revealed enough about himself. He won't respond to any of the points you raise just as he hasn't responded to the corrections that have been presented or answered any of the questions that have been put to him because he can't. All he can do is cut-and-paste the same old marketing garbage over and over. For goodness sake, he is so off base that he has just cut-and-pasted a statement regarding the “Fresh Air” not the “Living Air Classic" which this review is about. What a joke. So stop wasting your time, other people can read the record for themselves and see plainly who is who. Besides, he's a salesman. Whaddya expect? Intellectual honesty and integrity from him? Fuhgeddaboutit. Ignore him.
P.S. Thanks anyway for the additional support. Best wishes. Yours, cikaris
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Apr 18 '05
9:08 am PDT
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Re: A Word from Ecoquest (Reply to this comment)
by lynneeve
I can't believe that you wanted to bring up Consumer Reports! The May 2005 issue devoted four full pages to the dangers of ozone emitted by indoor air cleaners! Included was this paragraph: "While ionizers emit ozone as a byproduct, ozone generators create it by design and purport to offer health benefits. CONSUMER REPORTS found two such models Not Acceptable as early as 1992." And guess which air cleaner hotly discussed here in Epinions.com was one of those two machines rated Not Acceptable because of deliberate ozone generation!!! I think we have come full circle with this debate, since the EcoQuest dealers are now quoting the same expert sources that have condemned their own product for years.
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Apr 17 '05
8:28 am PDT
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A Word from Ecoquest (Reply to this comment)
by mtnwizard
It seems like only yesterday that when you mentioned air purification, no one knew what you meant. Thanks to the power of the media and growing interest in indoor air quality by people who now spend more than 90% of their time indoors, news about indoor air purification seems to be everywhere.
A recent article in Consumer Report launched a number of spin-off news stories and revealed that the American public is more than a little interested in indoor air quality and in products that promise to clean the air. All of this talk is good news for EcoQuest, the world’s leader in space-age air purification technology.
The Consumer Report article focused on a half dozen air cleaners that according to the article, “are supposed to trap charged particles on oppositely charged plates but… did a poor job removing dust and smoke from the air.” While EcoQuest’s Scientific Advisory Board does not agree entirely with every opinion put forth by the watch-dog magazine, they were not surprised by the report. One member, Dr. Jim Marsden, Distinguished Professor for the Department of Animal Sciences and Industry at Kansas Sate University said, “The Consumer Report article does not address EcoQuest products or technologies in any way. The scientific basis for EcoQuest air purification systems is well established. The effect of natural, advanced oxidation products is well documented in scientific literature. In addition, EcoQuest is working with universities and independent research laboratories to further validate the effectiveness of its line of air purification systems.”
“EcoQuest is generally pleased with the Consumer Report article,” says Mike Jackson, CEO of EcoQuest International. “The article targeted technology that is, in today’s fast-paced world, ineffective and outdated, largely incapable of addressing the large and growing indoor air crisis. The Fresh Air family of air purifiers by EcoQuest contains technology not found in any unit mentioned in the report. Radiant Catalytic Ionization (RCI), the technology at the heart of Fresh Air, was originally developed in cooperation with NASA and then adapted for residential use. Fresh Air with RCI is the only air purifier to receive the “Space Certification” seal for certified in space air purification technology used in residential spaces.”
At the center of the air purification issue is ozone, an often controversial and sometimes misunderstood ingredient that plays a small but important role in cleaning the air outdoors. Ozone, rather than being an original constituent of smog, simply appears as nature’s response to higher concentrations of chemical pollutants in static atmospheric conditions.
“Ozone is a part of our SynAirG, space-certified technology, but it is just that – a small part,” says Allen Johnston, the engineer who leads manufacturing at EcoQuest. “Many things, like sunshine and thunderbolts, have some ozone in the mix. We have thoughtfully included ozone into the design of our air purifiers right from the beginning. There is an enormous body of scientific data to support our decision to do so.” Proper settings for EcoQuest’s residential units produce ozone levels of .02 to .04 parts per million – well below what most governments have determined to be safe levels.
Fresh Air by EcoQuest relies on two forms of ionization, negative and RF (our secret system used from day one) which have proven to be the perfect blend for air purification for 20 years. Our millions of satisfied customers have made our products the most sought after systems in North America and now soon to be in the whole world. The RCI technology completes the air purification process as it develops “friendly oxidizers” like hydro-peroxides just like is created by sunshine outdoors completing the purification process. Nothing works to make your home or office cleaner and fresher than Fresh Air.
“We take the business of providing clean air to the world very seriously,”Jackson says. “At this very moment we have several complex, independent scientific studies being conducted at major universities. The preliminary reports are remarkable. Soon, they will be complete and I am anxious to share the results with you and the world.”
While we wait, we work. The evidence of both the need for indoor air purification and the proof that the Fresh Air family of products is the world’s best is all around us. Millions of satisfied customers bought our products the way we should be allowed to buy everything: they tried it first and bought it only after it worked.
So for now, continue to plug them in, turn them on and let Fresh Air speak for itself. In the end, it either works or it doesn’t!
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Apr 16 '05
6:22 am PDT
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Now who's laughing? (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
Quite frankly, I am not capable of going down to the level the some people operate at. Pointless, worthless, and useless ad hominem attacks are not my forte. After all, name calling is childish but I do understand why some people resort to it when they can't deal with the facts.
Putting the childish name calling aside, one suspects that the new member who calls himself “mtnwizard” will get kicked off this website if he keeps up his nasty personal comments. As a newcomer, he obviously is unfamiliar with the rules of epinions.
There really is no point in responding directly to these people who admit that their interest is in making money off this questionable product. I suppose the best thing to do is simply ignore them and let the administrators of epinions handle them when they go too far.
It is perhaps indicative of the overall poor quality of the arguments that pro ozone generator people make that they are forced to make intellectually worthless ad hominem attacks against me because, to quote Jack Nicholson, they can't handle the truth. The truth is very embarrassing and deeply uncomfortable to them.
In that they are barking up the wrong tree. Their argument really isn't with me since all I did was quote what mainstream scientists and institutions say about ozone "air purifiers" like Ecoquest's. Their argument is with them, not me. So I don't take what they say seriously since it can't be taken seriously. All they can do is call people names and utter one falsehood and mistruth after another.
I have been called so many names by these people like "idiot," "wacko," "nut," "screwball," etc that I can hardly remember them all except that I "wear" them, so to speak, as a badge of honor since it means that I have done a good job of exposing them and their true agenda. Indeed, their rude words and manner reveal more about them than they realize.
I would be remiss though if I did not point some other facts. First of all, I do not dislike Ecoquest. Ecoquest is a company not a person. Second, I never admitted that I dislike the company. I merely pointed out that they have a poor reputation based on the well-documented public record.
For example, the MLM watchdog "mlmbigmouth.com" says that Ecoquest does not have a good reputation - http://www.mlmbigmouth.com/_ef/ecoquest.html emphasizing the fact that "EcoQuest International holds the exclusive marketing rights for products from Alpine Technologies. Alpine has been repeatedly ordered by the courts to stop making unsubstantiated claims about its products."
Third, I am in no way obsessed with ozone. Writing an accurate if lengthy review of a product that generates ozone hardly constitutes being "obsessed" with ozone. On the contrary, judging from their repeated and overheated attacks against me it is they who are obsessed with ozone, not me. I suppose the love of money does lead some people to insult total strangers without basis in fact.
With regard to the claim that Ecoquest sells has "the only air purifier developed in association with NASA to purify spacecraft" and "if NASA trusts it to purify the air in a spacecraft," both of these claims, not surprisingly, are false.
If you go the Space Foundation website you find the article cut-and-pasted below. But what the article actually says is that "'Fresh Air' by EcoQuest uses technology originally developed in cooperation with NASA to clean the air in spacecraft by removing airborne pathogens." It means what it says. A technology that was developed was used in the Ecoquest unit.
It does not say that the air purifier itself was developed in association with NASA because it wasn’t
Nor does it say that the Ecoquest machine is used by NASA. on their spacecraft because it isn’t
Nor does the Space Foundation stand by the claims made for the “Fresh Air by Ecoquest” unit. On the contrary, the same website includes a disclaimer for the "Fresh Air by Ecoquest" which disavows responsibility and liability for its claims. See http://www.spaceconnection.org/disclaimer.cfm
Now if you go the website for NASA and type in "Ecoquest" you get the message "No results containing your search terms were found." Big surprise.
Then you type in "ozone" and you get a series of links such as http://eobglossary.gsfc.nasa.gov//Library/OzoneWeBreathe/ozone_we_breathe.html which states that
"Scientists liken the effect of overexposure to ozone to premature aging in our lungs. Ground-level ozone can adversely affect everyone" and "Reactions involving ozone also cause deterioration of electronic devices and materials such as rubber, plastics, outdoor paints, photographic papers, and fabrics."
Now why would NASA want to deteriorate the rubber, plastics, and electronic devices aboard their spacecraft by bringing on board a device which deliberately produces ozone? Of course they wouldn't and of course they don't. Even to suggest that they would does not pass the laugh test.
The NASA website link also includes the categorical statement that "Ozone in the lower atmosphere (troposphere) is toxic to human beings and many species of plants, causing harm without visible symptoms." I could go on but what's the point because the point is made by them not me.
But wait, it gets better, because when you type in "fresh air" as a search term not only do you not get "Fresh Air by Ecoquest" you find out that what NASA uses to clean the air in space is not Ecoquest's machine but "Filters made of activated charcoal” not ozone generators like Ecoquest’s.
See http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/News/2000/News-StationAir.asp
Once again, the facts are misrepresented, twisted, and ignored by the dealers and proponents of Ecoquest’s machines. I suppose the love of money causes that too. It would be funny if it were not so sad. I just hope they keep up their attacks against me because it exposes them even more. They are definitely getting desperate.
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Apr 10 '05
3:23 pm PDT
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Re: I have to laugh (Reply to this comment)
by lynneeve
You dealers should be ashamed of yourself. Sarcasm, insults, and apples-and-oranges arguments do not prove your case. I bought a hepa filter for safety and satisfactory effectiveness, not to cure asthma. And nowhere in the promotion for my machine were there any claims that it cured asthma. So what was your point in all that irrelevant copy-pasting? But wait, that reminds me -- hmmm, which company was it that was prosecuted and fined for false advertising claims ... oh right, I remember now, it was YOUR company!!!! And the false advertising continues, that your machine cures asthma and works through walls and closed doors (!!!) and therefore one unit cleans a 3000 square foot house, etc. Ludicrous.
If it's good for outer space it's good for your home? Are you in outer space? Nowhere did the space technology people make any claims about home safety testing. Irrelevant again. Ozone cleaners in vacated buildings like the Pentagon? Again, what's your point, our homes are not vacant of people, pets and plants.
You cite an anonymous ozone-promoting website (obviously authored by the Alpine/EcoQuest people) who you think anyone is going to give more credence to than the EPA, Consumer Reports, the American Lung Association, etc?
I really don't think you are laughing -- I think you are getting desperate.
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Apr 09 '05
10:35 am PDT
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I have to laugh (Reply to this comment)
by mtnwizard
at the lack of knowledge of some of the contributors here. One said he bought a HEPA filter. Hate to burst your bubble:
HEPA Filters DO NOT help Asthmatic Children!
BOSTON, Nov 17, 2004. (Reuters Health) - While high-efficiency particulate air (HEPA) filters have been promoted as an inexpensive way to reduce allergens in homes, new study findings suggest that these filters may offer no benefit whatsoever to children with asthma. "All kinds of allergens exacerbate asthma in children, notably pet allergens, mold, dust mites and cockroaches," said lead researcher Kelly A. Quinn of La Rabida Children's Hospital and Research Center in Chicago, Illinois, in an interview with Reuters Health. To see if, by clearing these allergens from the air, HEPA filters would reduce asthma symptoms, Quinn and her team of researchers enlisted 60 families from Chicago with at least one severely asthmatic child aged 6 to 13 years. They reported their findings at the meeting of the American Public Health Association here this week.
The investigators measured levels of cat allergens and dust mites in all homes at the start of the study. They also monitored asthma symptoms of the children with the help of parents and their doctors. "We found that the HEPA air filters did not change the level of the cat allergen or dust mite allergen in the air," Quinn told Reuters Health.
"There were no significant differences, and not surprisingly, the children's symptoms remained the same. In other words, the kids didn't do any better or worse with the HEPA filters in their homes," she added.
"The bottom line is that parents shouldn't run out and buy these filters, because we didn't detect a benefit," Quinn stated. Calls to HEPA filter manufactures for comment were not returned by deadline.
Stick with Ecoquest. If it's good enough for NASA, it has to be good enough for your home.
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Apr 08 '05
4:52 pm PDT
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The Truth (Reply to this comment)
by mtnwizard
EcoQuest Awarded Certified Space Technology Status
Colorado Springs CO (SPX) Aug 20, 2004
The Space Foundation announced Thursday that EcoQuest International's Fresh Air purification product has been officially recognized as a Certified Space Technology.
"Fresh Air" by EcoQuest uses technology originally developed in cooperation with NASA to clean the air in spacecraft by removing airborne pathogens. Titanium Dioxide (Ti02), a photo catalytic substance, was discovered to reduce hydrocarbons in enclosed spaces.
The Fresh Air product uses a similar application of Ti02 in a UV activated photo catalytic system to effectively purify the air indoors.
According to a December '98 "Wall Street Journal" article, "Carpeting, poorly ventilated fireplaces, mold, bacterial toxins, dust mites . . . an almost endless collection of highly allergenic products have invaded our homes and we have sealed them in with deadly precision."
"People need products like our Fresh Air because they help solve significant problems," stated Michael Jackson, EcoQuest President.
Fresh Air includes technology to show users fan and purification settings, time remaining on the adjustable sanitizer feature, and even recommends routine maintenance or service.
The SynAirG5 System incorporates photo catalytic technology to "supercharge" the proven Ecotech process for faster, more effective performance; an included remote control lets you make adjustments or activate the sanitize function from almost anywhere in the room.
"EcoQuest has been awarded use of the Certified Space Technology seal because they have effectively applied space-based technology to address the real and growing concern of indoor air pollution and improve the quality of life for people here on Earth," said Kevin C. Cook, Space Foundation Director of Space Awareness Programs.
"The Space Foundation is committed to recognizing and supporting the efforts of companies like EcoQuest," said Cook.
Is this organization good enough? As to testimonials, I have hundreds on file as well as a book of major corporations that use these air purifiers. If NASA trusts it to purify the air in spacecraft, I trust it to clean the air in my home -- and it does a great job.
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Apr 08 '05
4:48 pm PDT
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The only fraud here is the reviewer "cikaris" (Reply to this comment)
by mtnwizard
who admits a dislike for Ecoquest, the only air purifier developed in association with NASA to purify spacecraft; the only air purifier designated "Certified Space Technology" by the Space Foundation; the only air purifier used by the Pentagon after 9/11 (200 of them). Simply the best in the world -- without question.
This dude is also obsessed with ozone and his knowledge of it could fit in a thimble. Please visit: http://understandingozone.com
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Apr 08 '05
4:43 pm PDT
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Re: Thanks for the alert, cikaris (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
Dear Big Al, You are most welcome. By the way, so far as the Ecoquest literature indicates, other than the world famous Handyman Club of America (LOL!) no other organization has endorsed the Ecoquest ozone generating units.
Looks like the truth about the worthlessness and potential danger of using ozone to “purify” indoor air is getting out. Ecoquest relies on people not knowing what the facts are in order to successfully peddle their wares. The more people know, the worse it is for them. But with the latest condemnation from the state of California and the renewed condemnation by the Canadian government the truth is clearly spreading to a much larger audience.
For the very latest, check out this month’s (May) issue of Consumer Reports which again slams ozone and ozone generators used in residential settings. Ecoquest’s ozone propaganda always says that their devices make the air inside people’s homes “smell good.” As CR puts it succinctly, “Some people mistake ozone’s sweet smell for a sign of cleaner air.” Of course, in point of fact, ground level ozone whether outside or inside the home is universally recognized by scientists as a pollutant. Hence, Ecoquest’s machine should rightly be called an “air polluter” not an “air purifier.”
As Jonathan Samet, chairman of the department of epidemiology of Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health stated in the CR article, “We can’t guarantee safety at any ozone level, so it makes sense not to contaminate your living space.”
Funny how Ecoquest likes to imply in one of their widely distributed brochures for their units that scientists from John Hopkins University endorse their ozone machines when the opposite is the case! But then the fact that the people behind Ecoquest make false claims is nothing new with them as the documented record shows. I suppose one should at least give them credit for consistency – their consistent dishonesty
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Apr 06 '05
10:15 pm PDT
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Thanks for the alert, cikaris (Reply to this comment)
by bigalofepave
Thanks for the detailed warning, cikaris. I was on the verge of buying when I decided to perform more research. Good thing I found your article. Although some have had good results, the fact that there are so few endorsements from reputable companies leaves one to wonder.
BigAl
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Mar 17 '05
11:15 am PST
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Re: Living Air Classic (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
Regarding my critical review of the "Living Air Classic," when and if conclusive scientific proof of the exaggerated claims for the "Living Air Classic" is presented AND it gets certified by AHAM and its clean air delivery rate is revealed then I would be interested to see it.
But in the meantime, persons concerned with indoor air quality would be well advised to purchase a reliable and safe air cleaner made by one of the reputable manufacturers not a EcoQuest ozone "air purifier."
To be fair, I did carefully read the website you pointed to - www.understandingozone.com - and I have to admit that although on the surface it seems convincing, it is only that and nothing more. I did have a good laugh or two while reading it though because it regurgitates the same tired old stuff that I discussed in my review of the "Living Air Classic" and does nothing to refute the overwhelming body of expert reliable scientific evidence and opinion against ozone generators in residential settings used to address indoor air quality issues.
Besides, without belabouring the point, there are better and safer choices.
Finally, when and if all the outstanding issues have been addressed and questions answered AND all the professional and scientific agencies, institutions, and organizations that are opposed to the use of ozone generators as air purifiers in people's homes do a 180 degree turn and come out in favour of them then I will be happy to reconsider in spite of my own personal bad experience with the "Living Air Classic." But not until then.
In the meantime, people will just have to make up their minds by themselves after examining the legal record against EcoQuest and the scientific evidence against ozone generators like the "Living Air Classic."
P.S. Before I forget, just as a point of clarification, at the time that I originally wrote that the "Living Water" units were not certified by the NSF, they had not been certified. Glad to hear though that they finally have been certified. Too bad the same cannot be said of the "Living Air Classic."
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Mar 09 '05
1:06 pm PST
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Re:: Latest law suit against Ecoquest (Reply to this comment)
by cikaris
Hi Clscott,
Thank you for the update on the lawsuit. You mention that these two men tried to extort money from EcoQuest but that they have since regained their dealer numbers and continue to sell EcoQuest products. Does this mean they are trustworthy? Just asking.
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Mar 09 '05
1:00 pm PST
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Re: Latest law suit against Ecoquest (Reply to this comment)
by clscott
Cikaris,
You might be interested to know that these two men who tried to extort money from the company did so because their dealer numbers were taken away after they were found to be in violation of the company's advertising policies.
They have since regained use of their dealer numbers and to this day have never stopped selling the products.
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Mar 03 '05
10:28 pm PST
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Re: "Living Water" isn't certified either (What a surprise!) (Reply to this comment)
by clscott
Hi Cikaris,
Contrary to your statement, 'Living Water' units are indeed NSF certified and are UL certified in many states. California, which has some of the highest certification standards in the world with only a couple lab's authorized to conduct the needed testing for full certification is one of the few remaining states in which the water units are not fully certified. Full certification in California is expected in 1-2 months.
The recent acquisition of new proprietary technology puts EcoQuest again at the forefront of the air purification industry. Additional conclusive testing is scheduled to be released this year that will provide undeniable proof of the efficiency of EcoQuest's exclusive products.
If you would like to read some objective info on ozone and it's benefits please see: http://www.understandingozone.com. There is allot of good information and allot of misinformation out there on Ozone. I wish you the best in your search for the truth.
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Mar 03 '05
10:16 pm PST
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